Scarves Hermès Scarf Identification

#1,832
marietouchet said:
I am having trouble seeing the issues in the photo - brighter zoom photo would be better - but these are spots where the ink missed ? Most ebay photos of Souvenirs would be lacking for determining such details, you would need to have the silk in hand
There is a difference between older which is about 30 years old) and modern scarves (ca 2017)
Yes, there have always been imperfections in Hermes scarves, printing errors like these are less common today (it happens), but people routinely report bad hems and slubs in the fabric
Hermes has done a masterful job of marketing, they talk of their artisans doing hand made one of a kind goods - the subtext is that each article is different and imperfections are marketed as proof of handmade work-of-art products.
The idea that Hermes tolerates no defects is a modern one - and this is an older scarf, so, all bets are off, Some modern (ca 2008) Hermes documentation, talks of letting NO defects out, but we all know that bad hems happen even today ... rare but .. defects none the less
It is very common that people try to apply modern tenets (good printing, all scarves have copyrights etc) to the oldies but Hermes manufacturing quality has changed a lot over the years and the modern marketing tenets (good printing) dont work 100 percent for the oldies
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Makes sense! Marietouchet Im thankful for your advise and wonderful input as always. This gives me a better understanding and realistic expectation about Hermes. Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge to us :biggrin:
 
#1,833
Hermes scarves have been around for about 80 years but they have not all been produced to the same standards, nor has Hermes made the same quality claims for 80 years.
They used to do exchanges («Hermès se ferait un plaisir d échanger ...») which obviated the need to extol their quality, if you did not like a scarf, then exchange it.
Around 2008, they started claiming «no defects» and it became harder and harder to do an exchange, as if they were standing firm on their claims of «perfect» products
I would say today (2017) scarves are very busy - and this hides defects. Further there are so many formats / versions - all different but just today I spied a real HS with a badly printed (fuzzy looking) copyright , I really did a double take ...
 
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#1,835
marietouchet said:
Amusing find ... looking through an old Le Monde , it states Brides de Gala is from 1956 and the Léopards bath towel design from 1965. BdG is universally claimed to be from 1957, and the recent blurb on the Léopards silk states that design was from 1967. I thought the discrepancies in dates worth noting
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Thank you, marietouchet, for this funny bit of info =)) Who do you think is right?
 
#1,836
Miskin said:
Thank you, marietouchet, for this funny bit of info =)) Who do you think is right?
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My point is the following ... There isn't a single correct answer, Hermès doesn't give you the same answer twice in their official communications/magazines
If someone said to me that BdG was from 1956, I would not disagree, nor would I disagree with someone quoting 1957
 
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#1,837
marietouchet said:
My point is the following ... There isn't a single correct answer, Hermès doesn't give you the same answer twice in their official communications/magazines
If someone said to me that BdG was from 1956, I would not disagree, nor would I disagree with someone quoting 1957
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I agree, just sometimes I just wish Hermes had a good cataloging system. So one could theoretically ask them about scarves from the 30s and 40s and get some real info about the issue and the re-issue dates of these scarves. And maybe they do but are not willing to share, which is their right but still too bad.
 
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#1,838
Miskin said:
I agree, just sometimes I just wish Hermes had a good cataloging system. So one could theoretically ask them about scarves from the 30s and 40s and get some real info about the issue and the re-issue dates of these scarves. And maybe they do but are not willing to share, which is their right but still too bad.
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As a scientist, I was trained to always document provenance of «facts» with a citation of a written record , page number, edition, date , ISBN etc please.
Unfortunately, Hermes cites so many conflicting «facts» that I dont have a single date for about 50 % of the designs, instead - for each design - I have a folder of citations and copies of the source material. Exhausting/exhaustive but most people want a single definitive date, not a conflicting pile of stuff.
I also pay no attention whatsoever to any «facts» orally received from Hermes SAs and staff, if I they reply to me in writing, the letter goes into the overflowing aforementioned file of stuff for the design.
 
#1,839
marietouchet said:
As a scientist, I was trained to always document provenance of «facts» with a citation of a written record , page number, edition, date , ISBN etc please.
Unfortunately, Hermes cites so many conflicting «facts» that I dont have a single date for about 50 % of the designs, instead - for each design - I have a folder of citations and copies of the source material. Exhausting/exhaustive but most people want a single definitive date, not a conflicting pile of stuff.
I also pay no attention whatsoever to any «facts» orally received from Hermes SAs and staff, if I they reply to me in writing, the letter goes into the overflowing aforementioned file of stuff for the design.
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As a fellow scientist I tend to work the same but I simply don't understand why a company is unable pinpoint the exact year they released something for the first time (like in case with Brides de Gala). It's not like it happened a thousand years ago and it's not like their archives burned down at some point. Sorry for this rant, and thank you for the interesting discussion.
 
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#1,840
Miskin said:
As a fellow scientist I tend to work the same but I simply don't understand why a company is unable pinpoint the exact year they released something for the first time (like in case with Brides de Gala). It's not like it happened a thousand years ago and it's not like their archives burned down at some point. Sorry for this rant, and thank you for the interesting discussion.
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I think the issue is a combination of the following:
  1. Poor record keeping, esp for the oldies. In the 1980s , Hermès sent out a shout out for info on its early designs, the rumor was they lost things in WWII but maybe that was just a cover story to explain why they were lacking info on their own products.
  2. The usual fashion confusion about which collection and what year. Scarves from 2017SS collection were first «seen» in 2016 in stores and in magazines. Now there are 2 collections a year, but early on there was only one. It is complicated ... I personally own 1936 magazine article of Jeu des Omnibus, which is universally attributed to 1937.
  3. Advance spy intel can leak out 2 years early, eg someone knew quite some time ago about the 2017AW special issue for Canada, maybe as early as 2014 - 2015? So, I can see whereby someone a couple of years from now, will claim the new Canada design was from 2015.
  4. Human nature. I remember a special issue for an event in 2008, someone bought the scarf in 2009 (and has happy memories of the purchase) and claims to this day the scarf is from 2009, despite being shown the press release for the 2008 event.
  5. Complicated/convoluted record keeping systems. It used to be that a reissue could be recognized by ref nbr eg all the Brides de gala variants had a 1266 ref nbr. Not so, any more ... is Brides de Gala Fleuries a reissue ? Discuss ... BdG came out as a dip dye - was the first issue date 1957 or 2009SS? Discuss...
My approach to all that is the ginormous folder of dating info per design, not a single date when it appeared. I dont try to make sense of it, I am like an archaeologist who collect shards of pottery, I have an awful lot of them , and dont toss the old pottery crumbs when I get a new/bigger/better shard
 
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#1,841
Good Morning everyone!
I have a three questions, I'd be very appreciative of any assistance!
My first question is regarding L'lle Deserte by Annie Faivre (my favorite designer). I have searched and searched to find out if it came in a mossy green CW, but can't find it anywhere. I'm *fairly* certain this is authentic but I am just getting started.
Here's the scarf:
IMG_1497705869.777956.jpgIMG_1497705887.707686.jpg

My second question is regarding Jouvence by Leila Menchari, I think from 1968. I noticed while cleaning it yesterday it doesn't have an accent mark over the Hermes... so did I purchase a fake? Or did was the accent mark not used on this scarf? Everything about this scarf is spot on - fireworks jacquard, the signature and copyright are exactly where they should be.
Here's some photos:
IMG_1497706192.005632.jpg
IMG_1497706207.384807.jpg

Lastly, how/where do you get all your information!?! I am flabbergasted by the wealth of information and the generosity of everyone!
Thank you so much!
 
#1,843
Cookiefiend said:
Good Morning everyone!
I have a three questions, I'd be very appreciative of any assistance!
My first question is regarding L'lle Deserte by Annie Faivre (my favorite designer). I have searched and searched to find out if it came in a mossy green CW, but can't find it anywhere. I'm *fairly* certain this is authentic but I am just getting started.
Here's the scarf:
View attachment 3734206View attachment 3734207

My second question is regarding Jouvence by Leila Menchari, I think from 1968. I noticed while cleaning it yesterday it doesn't have an accent mark over the Hermes... so did I purchase a fake? Or did was the accent mark not used on this scarf? Everything about this scarf is spot on - fireworks jacquard, the signature and copyright are exactly where they should be.
Here's some photos:
View attachment 3734209
View attachment 3734210

Lastly, how/where do you get all your information!?! I am flabbergasted by the wealth of information and the generosity of everyone!
Thank you so much!
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Cookiefiend said:
I also found this picture on the FB Hermes Scarf Guide page - it is also missing the accent mark. Is is scarf another exception to the rule? View attachment 3735310
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There are other authentic vintage Hermes scarves with missing accent mark on the e. Neige d'Antan, for example.
 
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