answers to AUTHENTICITY questions!!!
- Thread starter kallison
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Thanks! More for the collection.
(Somebody please keep reminding me to check my facts BEFORE posting and not after.)
And I'm not sure about it being the 3 plant's last year, Coach changed all their plant codes from single to double digits (all numbers) in 2006, shortly after the middle of the year, July or August would be my guess. The "E" Italy code became "12", one of the Turkey plants became "18", etc. But there's almost no way to figure out the other changes, so for all we know, what started off as the "3" plant might still be in operation but under a different 2-digit plant code.
Here's an example of the updated Italy code:
and from Turkey (I don't know which one it replaced)
And Entrupy thinks, and tries to make their media sockpuppets and enablers think, that the only information you need to prove a Coach is real is how many stitches per inch the leather or fabric contains.
BLOODY IDJITS !!!!
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Thanks!Also to the attention of @whateve
I have creed stamps in my files with a "3" code for a Chinese plant dating from late 1999 to 2002, when the number 3 disappears for a few years (or maybe I just never saved any newer examples with that number) and reappears briefly near the end of 2005 after Coach had started to use 2-number codes for the year code. At least I THINK it's a 3 plant code, the photo isn't very clear. So unless more show up with legible 05 year codes and "3" plant codes, the 2002 date is the last one that can be confirmed.
NOTE - SEE EDIT BELOW
Again, that's only what's actually in my photo files, there could be others I haven't found or just didn't bother to save.
Earliest - 1999
View attachment 4632522
View attachment 4632525
2002
View attachment 4632549
Most recent - 2005 maybe?
View attachment 4632533
ETA - Just found several from 2003, 2004 AND 2005 but most of the photos are pretty bad so I won't bother to post them. So it looks like the "3" plant was open from 1999 straight through most of the early 2000 decade. There were changes in creed wording and serial number fonts along the way.
Here's a Search page with some examples:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=coach+(33,043,053)+-rhyder+-swagger+-mercer+-harmony&_sacat=11450&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=11450&_odkw=coach+(33,043,053)+-rhyder+-swagger+-harmony
Here's a clear one from 2005 from one of the Sig Optic Bumblebee bags:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=coach+(33,043,053)+-rhyder+-swagger+-mercer+-harmony&_sacat=11450&LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=11450&_odkw=coach+(33,043,053)+-rhyder+-swagger+-harmony
M053-5065
View attachment 4632560
Aren't you sorry you asked?
Is M a valid plant code for Costa Rica in 1997? I’ve mostly seen P for Costa Rica. I’ve also seen some creeds with M for the United States, also in 1997 (I didn’t save those creed pics though). Was there an overlap? I know for the most part to “trust” (in quotes because you just never know) the Costa Rica creeds because of how few fakes there are of them.
The M code was used for both the US and Costa Rica in 1997, and also probably in 1995 and 1996. Both plants probably were part time and the M code was used by both as needed, sometimes in the same month, which makes it tricky to use when authenticating. Here's an example of each one:
The M plant(s) were also the last to get the updated creed stamps that came out in very late 1994 or in 1995, the US and Costa Rica M plants had to wait for theirs until the middle of 1996. And to confuse things even more, we've seen quite a few serial numbers from around 1995-1996 where the 3 digits of the prefix were scrambled and instead of a prefix that should have read J5M- the stamping mechanism was set for 5JM, or some other combination. And we've seen scrambled prefixes where you can't even tell WHICH plant made the bag because both letters were for plants that were active at the time, such as a scrambled prefix with both A and M that actually turned out to have been from the original "A" plant. We do NOT reccomend trying to pin down any M plant code or basing any opinions of authenticity on it, since often the font used in the number stamping is the only clue. You'll make yourself crazy if you try.
As for Costa Rica, so far their bags seem to be one of the most trustworthy. I guess the counterfeiters couldn't figure out where it was and decided no one would trust a trust a bag that had been made in a country they'd never heard of and probably couldn't even find on a map.
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Oh gosh, scrambled prefixes?? This was, as usual, a very informative (and interesting) response! Thank you for taking the time to answer it @Hyacinth!The M code was used for both the US and Costa Rica in 1997, and also probably in 1995 and 1996. Both plants probably were part time and the M code was used by both as needed, sometimes in the same month, which makes it tricky to use when authenticating. Here's an example of each one:
View attachment 4677877 View attachment 4677879
View attachment 4677893
The M plant(s) were also the last to get the updated creed stamps that came out in very late 1994 or in 1995, the US and Costa Rica M plants had to wait for theirs until the middle of 1996. And to confuse things even more, we've seen quite a few serial numbers from around 1995-1996 where the 3 digits of the prefix were scrambled and instead of a prefix that should have read J5M- the stamping mechanism was set for 5JM, or some other combination. And we've seen scrambled prefixes where you can't even tell WHICH plant made the bag because both letters were for plants that were active at the time, such as a scrambled prefix with both A and M that actually turned out to have been from the original "A" plant. We do NOT reccomend trying to pin down any M plant code or basing any opinions of authenticity on it, since often the font used in the number stamping is the only clue. You'll make yourself crazy if you try.
As for Costa Rica, so far their bags seem to be one of the most trustworthy. I guess the counterfeiters couldn't figure out where it was and decided no one would trust a trust a bag that had been made in a country they'd never heard of and probably couldn't even find on a map.
Although it doesn't cause as much confusion since it wasn't used concurrently with other plant codes, M was also used as the code for a Chinese plant from 2003 till 2006.
Just a few samples from 1995 - a "new" creed in a Sonoma made in March and two "old" creeds in a City Bag from October and a Sheridan from: May, each with different creed wordings to match the bag and the leather. See what we mean when we say that "the only consistent thing about Coach is their inconsistency"?
Yes, definitely... their consistent inconsistencies! If I saw these I would’ve just marked them off as fake and not bothered. Good to know, and will be checking in with you all if I happen to see one (and want to get it)! Thank you @Hyacinth
Could you please let me know.... thanks.
I have a question about a Pocket Purse 9755 from 1998 that I have and I know is authentic, but the strap is a thin adjustable one with the dog leash clips.
The one on the Coach catalog shows the lobster type and not adjustable. Then looking on Ebay there are both types for sale. I know, I know that a strap is easy to exchange/replace, but just wondering if by any chance at a point this style came with the adjustable strap.
I have a question about a Pocket Purse 9755 from 1998 that I have and I know is authentic, but the strap is a thin adjustable one with the dog leash clips.
The one on the Coach catalog shows the lobster type and not adjustable. Then looking on Ebay there are both types for sale. I know, I know that a strap is easy to exchange/replace, but just wondering if by any chance at a point this style came with the adjustable strap.