Tiffany classic solitaire owner pls come in....
- Thread starter honeybeez
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Probably because you made it clear to your salesperson that you were looking for a stone that was mind-clean, not just eye clean. You and your husband probably made your feelings on inclusions clear to your salesperson, who then offered him the chance to view it under higher magnification than just 10x grading power, just to be sure it's mind-clean AND eye-clean. You paid for mind-clean, and for the brand to assure you it would be mind-clean.
A lot of jewelry stores give you the option to view under a microscope, Tiffany's or otherwise, as well as a loupe. Every jeweler I've ever visited allowed me the option to view under a microscope and most are NOT Tiffany stores.
It doesn't change the fact that diamonds are graded under 10x loupe, not microscopes. No lab grades diamonds under microscope, Tiffany's included. ALL DIAMONDS not graded FL or IF will have flaws that are EASILY viewable under a microscope and most will have flaws right in the middle. A microscope is NOT how a diamond earns its grade. And for the record: a VVS1 may have flaws right in the middle too, they are just smaller. Doesn't matter if it's Tiffany's or not. He might not have seen them, but they were there. Only way to get zero flaws is to buy Flawless.
Many will, and most won't care because it's not naked-eye visible. And many will also look at the same diamond under a loupe before buying, not a microscope. And no one will see it without a loupe or a microscope. It also doesn't matter because it doesn't affect sparkle or fire or even quality of the stone: CUT does that. And they're not necessarily flaws, they're inclusions.
Exactly. They had a microscope at Tiffany's when I went too, right out in the open... I just didn't ask to see my diamond through it because if I can't see an inclusion with a LOUPE, and my face right up in the diamond's grill, (LOL!), then why would I mind where the inclusions are??
Tiffany's will also give you a diamond certificate mapping out the diamond and all inclusions, feathers, etc. They're not hiding anything.
Feeling a little defensive of Tiffany's here!! :boxing: Especially since mine is VS2 and I'm so happy with it. And I understand - to some a flawless diamond is the THING and that's great! But those were some pretty ... um... harsh things you said up there about Tiffany's quality and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way... as AME said, ALL diamonds are graded the SAME WAY when it comes to inclusions and generally people don't have microscopes on them in every day life.
Plus there's nothing really wrong with inclusions in the end! A diamond is a natural stone. Unless you have a TON of money OR are willing to sacrifice size or colour/cut, your diamond will have inclusions and 99% of them from Tiffany's at VS 1/2 will not affect the performance of the stone. But if it makes you feel better to go higher and pay more by all means!
To each his own!
Tiffany's will also give you a diamond certificate mapping out the diamond and all inclusions, feathers, etc. They're not hiding anything.
Feeling a little defensive of Tiffany's here!! :boxing: Especially since mine is VS2 and I'm so happy with it. And I understand - to some a flawless diamond is the THING and that's great! But those were some pretty ... um... harsh things you said up there about Tiffany's quality and it kind of rubbed me the wrong way... as AME said, ALL diamonds are graded the SAME WAY when it comes to inclusions and generally people don't have microscopes on them in every day life.
Plus there's nothing really wrong with inclusions in the end! A diamond is a natural stone. Unless you have a TON of money OR are willing to sacrifice size or colour/cut, your diamond will have inclusions and 99% of them from Tiffany's at VS 1/2 will not affect the performance of the stone. But if it makes you feel better to go higher and pay more by all means!
To each his own!Exactly. Even though I am not a fan of Tiffany's, I think Honeybeez has some misinformation as to what should be visible at what clarity grade, and under what magnification.
All diamonds, Tiffany or otherwise, are graded at 10x. That's how it is. NOT under a scope. Diamonds WILL come included, they came out of the ground, they're naturally like that.
All diamonds, Tiffany or otherwise, are graded at 10x. That's how it is. NOT under a scope. Diamonds WILL come included, they came out of the ground, they're naturally like that.
Thanks for all the wonderful information here.
I didnt know that u could choose to view the diamond under a loupe or microscoop. The sa just showed it to my husband that way. And he also dont know anything about diamonds. We didnt stress to the sa that we want a mind clean diamond. All these while i ask her to search for something ard 1.5, h or i color and vs2 because i dont want to pay more for the clarity. That is before he really sees the diamond. Some pretty and nice vs2 wont have inclusions in the middle...it will be at the side of the diamonds.
I think it is all up to personal preferences. Some ppl will go for D color, vs2. To me i prefer abit warmer color, but crystal clear inside. If clarity is not really that important, y is it that clarity will affect the diamond price the most in the diamond market? Lol...
I didnt know that u could choose to view the diamond under a loupe or microscoop. The sa just showed it to my husband that way. And he also dont know anything about diamonds. We didnt stress to the sa that we want a mind clean diamond. All these while i ask her to search for something ard 1.5, h or i color and vs2 because i dont want to pay more for the clarity. That is before he really sees the diamond. Some pretty and nice vs2 wont have inclusions in the middle...it will be at the side of the diamonds.
I think it is all up to personal preferences. Some ppl will go for D color, vs2. To me i prefer abit warmer color, but crystal clear inside. If clarity is not really that important, y is it that clarity will affect the diamond price the most in the diamond market? Lol...
Actually cut and carat are where a price tends to be dictated most. Color and Clarity is after the size/cut quality factor. Color takes a heavier price point though over clarity. You pay more for a step up in color than you do for a step up in clarity. Not a LOT more but more. There is a disparity typically. Prior to the recent increases in price overall in the market, it would be say $1000 more for per color grade increase to say $700 per clarity grade increase, assuming a full 1ct stone. In this case, you paid for brand above all others, THEN the other Cs.
A VS2 is a VS2 regardless of whether it's at the edge or the middle. You are correct that there are nicer VS2s than others, but there are specific grading criteria for what and where it is. There's a grademaker inclusion that determines the clarity grade. Specific things in the middle automatically will lower it down, but it depends what it is, the size, etc. I have seen black crystal inclusions in the table get a VS2 grade (which I absolutely disagree with the grading criteria for), as well as a clear feather towards the edge or an indented natural at the girdle also get a VS2 grade.
A VS2 is a VS2 regardless of whether it's at the edge or the middle. You are correct that there are nicer VS2s than others, but there are specific grading criteria for what and where it is. There's a grademaker inclusion that determines the clarity grade. Specific things in the middle automatically will lower it down, but it depends what it is, the size, etc. I have seen black crystal inclusions in the table get a VS2 grade (which I absolutely disagree with the grading criteria for), as well as a clear feather towards the edge or an indented natural at the girdle also get a VS2 grade.
honeybeez - congrats on your new ring. I think you and your husband had made a great choice. There are so much information out there but at the end of the day, you just need to pick a stone that's within your comfort zone and I'm so happy that you guys found the one
Thanks for all the wonderful information here.
I didnt know that u could choose to view the diamond under a loupe or microscoop. The sa just showed it to my husband that way. And he also dont know anything about diamonds. We didnt stress to the sa that we want a mind clean diamond. All these while i ask her to search for something ard 1.5, h or i color and vs2 because i dont want to pay more for the clarity. That is before he really sees the diamond. Some pretty and nice vs2 wont have inclusions in the middle...it will be at the side of the diamonds.
I think it is all up to personal preferences. Some ppl will go for D color, vs2. To me i prefer abit warmer color, but crystal clear inside. If clarity is not really that important, y is it that clarity will affect the diamond price the most in the diamond market? Lol...
I'm glad you found a ring you're happy with!!! Very exciting!
Sorry if I got defensive about Tiffany's - considering you said above that it's "all up to personal preference" (which we can all agree on!) it was strange to read some kind of harsh things that you said about Tiffany's (especially if you're one of us girls willing to pay the premium for the name!) I'm thinking specifically of this sentence:
"But nothing beats seeing it with our own eye. When my husband reach there, he ask to view the 1.35 vs2 under the microscope. N to his disappointment, there is a long bubble n 2 feather lines directly in the center of the Stone! Of coz u cant see this with the naked eye. But gosh a vs2 in tiffany is so low standard. I know vs2 wont be perfect but i thought still acceptable. So he view a few vs2 and a vs1, all have feathers in the middle!"
Firstly you didn't make this decision "with your own eye", you reacted to it through a microscope which is like 60x magnification. Seeing it with your eye actually does mean seeing it WITH YOUR EYE!
I think that's what all of us mean when we say don't get too wrapped up in the stats/numbers/angles - trust what you see on your finger and what sings to you. Studying it at that magnification kind of brings you back to the things you can't appreciate with the eye anyway. And when you say things like "gosh a vs2 in Tiffany is so low standard" and "not acceptable" 
... you are bound to ruffle some feathers. Mine got a little RUFFLED. 
shocked: I understand you might not have had all the info you needed but especially in that case, if you're relatively new at diamond studies (as most of us here are!) maybe you shouldn't say things like that if you DON'T have all the info, considering there are people here who have put a lot of time into helping you pick this diamond and answering ALL your questions who DO have Tiffany VS2 diamonds (or non Tiffany or whatever). Just a thought! Everyone here is entitled to set their own "bar of comfort" wherever they like but I don't think that people should make summary judgements about certain clarities or qualities that might hurt other people's feelings or make them feel like THEY are settling while you're not. (not that I do - I decided LONG ago that I thought it was well worth it on a gorgeous Tiffany diamond to stick at VS2 and go up in colour because I'm more colour sensitive... but you can see how that might make someone a little irked to read I hope??)Anyway I hope that spending the money and going up in clarity does give you the ability to be happy with your ring! I'm happy for you that you found your dream ring.
Ok, i am sorry. I dont mean to say if u own a vs2 from tiffany it is going to be a bad stone. What i mean is those vs2 he seen r not so good as the inclusions directly in the middle. Every diamond is different. Maybe those vs2 u owned r the nicer ones where the inclusions r at the side n very less? Another thing is the tiffany sa also never explain that because this is viewing through the microscoop so the inclusions r 60x more clear. We as a normal person, we dont know that the grading is based on seeing thru a loupe. Lol.
Thank u matallston, ur the best!
Thank u matallston, ur the best!
I mean this in the nicest possible way for my tactless a$$ to say: But if you plan to purchase more diamonds like this in the future, you should take the time to get properly educated on diamonds and grading. You are making uneducated and rash statements about clarity and diamonds based on no actual facts and you are being offensive to other people by bashing their choice to not overspend on something they knew a little more about going into the purchase than you and your husband appear to be.Ok, i am sorry. I dont mean to say if u own a vs2 from tiffany it is going to be a bad stone. What i mean is those vs2 he seen r not so good as the inclusions directly in the middle. Every diamond is different. Maybe those vs2 u owned r the nicer ones where the inclusions r at the side n very less? Another thing is the tiffany sa also never explain that because this is viewing through the microscoop so the inclusions r 60x more clear. We as a normal person, we dont know that the grading is based on seeing thru a loupe. Lol.
Your husband's salesperson actually did you both a serious disservice by going to the microscope first, and NOT having your husband view the stone through a loupe first and NOT through a scope. They made a bigger sale by scaring him into buying higher clarity than is necessary, because they showed him stones at higher magnification than is ever necessary for most buyers. It sounds like dirty selling to me but it worked out and you spent more than you budgeted because you were both freaked out by what he saw. I dare not say you got ripped off, but in a sense you did. You overpaid for what you didn't need out of fear. I hate when salespeople do things like that, and it was definitely a sales tactic.
You can say you as normal people "didn't know". But myself and many others DID inform you of grading and the like prior to this purchase. Many of these posters invested a lot of time trying to educate you so that you were not ripped off or overpaying.
ALL diamonds not graded FL or IF will have inclusions. They will. And under a microscope they will look like space ships and aliens and OMG! but they're a natural formation and will have "scars" of their life growing up, just like we do.
For anyone lurking: ANY VS2 you see through a microscope at 60x will look terrifying. ANY stone under IF will probably be terrifying under a microscope. But a majority of VS2 stones have inclusions in the middle. Again, it's type, size and placement of the inclusions that get the clarity grade, and those are under a 10x loupe NOT a microscope. You WILL see terrifying things under a microscope, and at ANY clarity grade that is not FL or IF, period. From Tiffany or otherwise.
Have you ever looked your finger under a microscope? It's the thing nightmares are made of.