Scarves Special Edition Scarves

[BrandsparkShop]

@LKBNOLA,

In essence, we (as a community and/or individual collectors) need something like the Arfon books.

However, we cannot do without a forum like this, dedicated to special (or limited) edition foulards.

In fact, the Arfon books are very informative, but also need some updates.

For instance, the latest CdA IV book contains special editions (and some of them are also mentioned in the CdA SE book, while others are not even mentioned at all) and some regular variant foulards are accompanied by the images of special edition foulards.

The CdA SE (Special Edition) and CdA LE (Limited Edition) books are quite complete, but do not contain all special / limited editions.

Nevertheless, it is a daunting task to get information, images and awareness of existence of all special / limited edition foulards.

Almost an impossible task!

I hope that I (personally) and we (as a community) can continue to add or share information on this special forum or even share information with the author of the Arfon books.

In due time, I will share much more information on this forum, as the end result of years of "work".

Kind regards....

 

[LKBNOLA]

@LKBNOLA,

In essence, we (as a community and/or individual collectors) need something like the Arfon books.

However, we cannot do without a forum like this, dedicated to special (or limited) edition foulards.

In fact, the Arfon books are very informative, but also need some updates.

For instance, the latest CdA IV book contains special editions (and some of them are also mentioned in the CdA SE book, while others are not even mentioned at all) and some regular variant foulards are accompanied by the images of special edition foulards.

The CdA SE (Special Edition) and CdA LE (Limited Edition) books are quite complete, but do not contain all special / limited editions.

Nevertheless, it is a daunting task to get information, images and awareness of existence of all special / limited edition foulards.

Almost an impossible task!

I hope that I (personally) and we (as a community) can continue to add or share information on this special forum or even share information with the author of the Arfon books.

In due time, I will share much more information on this forum, as the end result of years of "work".

Kind regards....

I very much look forward to your research and information-- the first thing I did as a newbie collector was to buy the Arfon set but as you say this forum and other web resources expand our knowledge. I absolutely rely on this forum for its information, friendship and generosity! Thank you!

 

[papertiger]

Good morning all! I am very very delighted to share my recent acquisition: Salt Marsh (SE or LE?) issued in 2003. This design by Rachel Knight was the competition winner on a collaboration between Hermes and the Savannah College of Art and Design. I haven't been able to find much about it (my SE and LE Carre d'Art books are in another location, so any info gratefully received). I understand only three cws were issued: a "pear" green, this brown/aubergine and an orange. I did find this on a First Dibs ad:
"Hermes supports the arts and artists, students and professionals alike! This particular carre was designed by Savannah College of Art and Design Alumna Rachael Knight (Class of 2002). Limited Edition? OUI! Knight describes the experience of going to Lyon, France, to view the printing of her scarf at the Hermes silk atelier as "perhaps the best day of my life". The overall design celebrates the metamorphosis of a caterpillar to butterfly...the "Salt Marsh" caterpillar to be exact!"
Because I live adjacent to a complicated ecosystem of estuary, beach and salt marsh, I just had to have this scarf! I am especially taken with the fact that it celebrates a metamorphoses of the kind I see on my walks...
View attachment 5811141
View attachment 5811142

It's so beautiful (so long as they're butterflies and not moths ). The colours are breathtaking, there are very few scarves in/with aubergine. I also love your personal connection to the theme.

 

[shrpthorn]

Dear LKBNOLA,

This scarf is actually a special edition.

There were indeed three colorways : an orange, a brownish and vibrant green colorway.

The story becomes a bit more interesting when taking into consideration that this design was the "winner" of a competition, which "winning design" should actually have been become part of the Hermes collection.

For some reason, Hermes did not make this design part of the regular collection, it remained a "special edition".

Nevertheless, the label "special edition" is commonly agreed upon, but it might not be that correct in the sense that only a limited production run was present : the Salt Marsh is rare and sought after and to some extent to be considered a limited edition.

Tomato / Tomato ..... what is in a name?


Anyway, a similar situation has been occurring in another competition, organized by Hermes and Savannah College.

There is another design, another "winner" that is not part of the regular collection - it is even more rare, 250 copies were made.


For reference, please have a look at the Arfon SE book, page 88 !

Kind regards.....

I believe there was also a competition with Hermes & the Atlanta College of Art & Design (ACAD). Again, although a winning design was chosen, it was also only printed in a limited run & had been for sale only at the school's shop (or this was what I was able to search out with Mr. Google). My nephew went there so I was on the lookout for the scarf for my SIL - but I've only ever seen one for resale & it was at a steep premium. In the end I didn't think the design was that nice...the Savannah one is much nicer IMO..

 

[LKBNOLA]

It's so beautiful (so long as they're butterflies and not moths ). The colours are breathtaking, there are very few scarves in/with aubergine. I also love your personal connection to the theme.

and thank you but I think it is a moth! Although there is also a Salt Marsh skipper butterfly (which is brown) and the scarf semms to show both. In defense of the moth version (the white one on the scarf)-- this is what I found online: "Saltmarsh caterpillar is a sporadic pest that uncommonly warrants control." I think they are not welcomed by crop gardeners but here they tend to stay in the wetlands where they like the weeds on offer!

 

[BrandsparkShop]

Hi all!

Wasn't able to find anything with the search button, but...

does anyone know if Hermes in France sells a paris specific/france specific scarf to the area? Similar to the waikiki store in Hawaii with the surf scarf?

TIA!

Dear pinky7129,

It really is a good question!

I did not do any research on the geographic distribution of special editions, but I really should : it is an interesting matter.

Let me explain a bit.


There is an odd rule of thumb that you can apply : most of the special editions foulards are not from or related to Hermes Paris.

This rule of thumb does not apply to limited editions, so be aware of the fact that "special" and "limited" are defined differently.

For instance, there is the Paris related "Quadrige - 42 Avenue George V", but we should label that as a "limited edition", even though one can be inclined to think of that foulard as being a "special edition".


In essence, there are a number of areas to focus when looking for special editions :

1 - United Kingdom

2 - Hong Kong

3 - United States

4 - Luxembourg

5 - Japan


Again, it has to be emphasized that most of the eligible foulards are often limited editions, not special editions.

The irony is that a lot (read: most) of the special editions seem to be the result of a special command ("commande speciale").


As for me personally, I have the strong impression that a clear distinction between "special" and "limited" is fully absent nowadays.

It might even be impossible to make or define aforementioned "clear distinction".


Nevertheless, it might become a little bit more clear when using the most basic criteria that apply to "limited editions" :

a) the foulard has not been distributed commercially, (and/or)

b) the total number of foulards produced is 500 or less, (and/or)

c) the foulard has only been produced for one special occasion (and has not been reissued afterwards),

and, if any foulard does not fit one or more of these criteria, it can be safely assumed that the foulard is a "special edition".


And when using those criteria, it can be safely concluded that there are very little "special editions" related to Paris.

Also, the Sea Surf & Fun - Hermes in Waikiki (and all Aloha special variants) are limited editions, according to those criteria.


To be honest, I am struggling a bit myself with these criteria, but as far as I know, it is the only way to match the Arfon books and the objectives pursued by Hermes when creating a "special design".


A long story short - the answer to your question should be "no" and that would be so counterintuitive that additional research and information would always be desirable or even required.

Kind regards.....

 

[BrandsparkShop]

Very jealous! I'm from the US so I'm out of luck trying to get this for a reasonable price. Now that the Queen has passed people are raising the price to at least $1000+. When the news came out, one of the eBay sellers changed the price from $750 to $2,199. I'm literally crying, for the passing of Her Majesty and my stupidity for not buying it from resellers when it was still $700+.

@karmenmomo,

To be honest, it is the stupidity of sellers to be so indecent to make an (additional) gain of the passing of QE.

In the long run, none of these overpriced limited editions will sell at those high prices .......

........ and the only thing that remains is the memory of QE ......

........ and we should learn that we should avoid those sellers in every way possible, even when they lower prices!

It is just a personal opinion.

It is also a fact that you should not label yourself in a negative way when other people are totally not doing the decent thing ....

Kind regards....

PS Personally, I do make a distinction between sellers who are "following the market without thinking" and those sellers that only have the intention to gain a profit : the latter sellers are the ones buying 3 to 5 foulards at once at normal Hermes prices, only in order to and only with the intention to resell at 2x to 5x the original retail price ...... that is wrong, completely wrong.

 

[marietouchet]

Dear pinky7129,

It really is a good question!

I did not do any research on the geographic distribution of special editions, but I really should : it is an interesting matter.

Let me explain a bit.


There is an odd rule of thumb that you can apply : most of the special editions foulards are not from or related to Hermes Paris.

This rule of thumb does not apply to limited editions, so be aware of the fact that "special" and "limited" are defined differently.

For instance, there is the Paris related "Quadrige - 42 Avenue George V", but we should label that as a "limited edition", even though one can be inclined to think of that foulard as being a "special edition".


In essence, there are a number of areas to focus when looking for special editions :

1 - United Kingdom

2 - Hong Kong

3 - United States

4 - Luxembourg

5 - Japan


Again, it has to be emphasized that most of the eligible foulards are often limited editions, not special editions.

The irony is that a lot (read: most) of the special editions seem to be the result of a special command ("commande speciale").


As for me personally, I have the strong impression that a clear distinction between "special" and "limited" is fully absent nowadays.

It might even be impossible to make or define aforementioned "clear distinction".


Nevertheless, it might become a little bit more clear when using the most basic criteria that apply to "limited editions" :

a) the foulard has not been distributed commercially, (and/or)

b) the total number of foulards produced is 500 or less, (and/or)

c) the foulard has only been produced for one special occasion (and has not been reissued afterwards),

and, if any foulard does not fit one or more of these criteria, it can be safely assumed that the foulard is a "special edition".


And when using those criteria, it can be safely concluded that there are very little "special editions" related to Paris.

Also, the Sea Surf & Fun - Hermes in Waikiki (and all Aloha special variants) are limited editions, according to those criteria.


To be honest, I am struggling a bit myself with these criteria, but as far as I know, it is the only way to match the Arfon books and the objectives pursued by Hermes when creating a "special design".


A long story short - the answer to your question should be "no" and that would be so counterintuitive that additional research and information would always be desirable or even required.

Kind regards.....

A simple rule I use… A scarf with an INSCRIPTION for outside group (that is NOT Hermes) is more SPECIAL than an design/cw done for Hermes ( eg for anniversary of boutique, these are often NOT inscribed).

Yes, there are BILLIONS of exceptions..

BTW commande speciale translates as custom order (by an outside group) eg for VIVENDI (who footed the bill).

 

[BrandsparkShop]

A simple rule I use… A scarf with an INSCRIPTION for outside group (that is NOT Hermes) is more SPECIAL than an design/cw done for Hermes ( eg for anniversary of boutique, these are often NOT inscribed).

Yes, there are BILLIONS of exceptions..

BTW commande speciale translates as custom order (by an outside group) eg for VIVENDI (who footed the bill).

@marietouchet,

It is the best way to describe a limited or special edition : the presence of something special on the foulard, like an inscription or even a special (unique) colorway.

After that, it still is difficult to make clear distinctions.

For instance, the "Brides de Gala a Pois - Hermes pour Colette" was factually a "commande speciale" and is labelled as "special edition", even though there is a very very limited number of units produced per colorway (200 per colorway), which normally would indicate that this particular foulard would be "limited edition"......but it is not, which is rather confusing.


Nevertheless, your rule of thumb is more specific and entais that "scarves with an inscription for an outside group is more special".

This rule of thumb is, at least in general, true.

However, it is not true and/or true to a lesser extent for the Vivendi.


The Vivendi actually is an ongoing collaboration between Hermes and Vivendi, with 3 (three) colorways being produced.

The Vivendi was intended as a corporate gift, but also ended up in a "client store" of Vivendi for some period of time.

In essence, the Vivendi has been produced in relatively large numbers ..... and there have production runs with a special box (read: a nice white one, with colors matching the colorway - this applies to the red and blue colorway at least) and without a special box (read: this mostly applies to the orange colorway).

From the perspective of rarity, the Vivendi is not that special at all.

From the perspective of collectability, the Vivendi is a must-have : nice, available on the market and priced relatively low.

However, from the perspective of criteria making the distinction between "limited" or "special", it clearly is a (not so) special edition.


I think that the best way to tackle the criteria of "limited" vs "special" is to think about the Bugatti Veyron FBG.

But that is an entire different story.


I can give all kinds of background information, but that is not necessary.

I simply AGREE with you : INSCRIPTIONS are the first thing to check for, in order to identify special and limited editions!


Kind regards.....

 

[Redbirdhermes]

My understanding has been that Special Editions are a new design for a particular client or event. Limited Editions tend to be a different colorway, likely with an inscription, of an existing design. Of course, a Special Edition might then be released more generally, probably in different colorways. After the fact, piecing together the history of a design is tricky.

 

[marietouchet]

@marietouchet,

It is the best way to describe a limited or special edition : the presence of something special on the foulard, like an inscription or even a special (unique) colorway.

After that, it still is difficult to make clear distinctions.

For instance, the "Brides de Gala a Pois - Hermes pour Colette" was factually a "commande speciale" and is labelled as "special edition", even though there is a very very limited number of units produced per colorway (200 per colorway), which normally would indicate that this particular foulard would be "limited edition"......but it is not, which is rather confusing.


Nevertheless, your rule of thumb is more specific and entais that "scarves with an inscription for an outside group is more special".

This rule of thumb is, at least in general, true.

However, it is not true and/or true to a lesser extent for the Vivendi.


The Vivendi actually is an ongoing collaboration between Hermes and Vivendi, with 3 (three) colorways being produced.

The Vivendi was intended as a corporate gift, but also ended up in a "client store" of Vivendi for some period of time.

In essence, the Vivendi has been produced in relatively large numbers ..... and there have production runs with a special box (read: a nice white one, with colors matching the colorway - this applies to the red and blue colorway at least) and without a special box (read: this mostly applies to the orange colorway).

From the perspective of rarity, the Vivendi is not that special at all.

From the perspective of collectability, the Vivendi is a must-have : nice, available on the market and priced relatively low.

However, from the perspective of criteria making the distinction between "limited" or "special", it clearly is a (not so) special edition.


I think that the best way to tackle the criteria of "limited" vs "special" is to think about the Bugatti Veyron FBG.

But that is an entire different story.


I can give all kinds of background information, but that is not necessary.

I simply AGREE with you : INSCRIPTIONS are the first thing to check for, in order to identify special and limited editions!


Kind regards.....

Mea culpa, my "rule of thumb" was trying just to be a bit witty - my pun failed. My "rule of thumb" was not trying to indicate a UNIVERSAL RULE but rather an "approximate" definition, cf infra which helps with the nuances of the term.

The pun was on the word SPECIAL. Many people seem willing to die on their swords (joke here) that their scarves are SPECIAL ISSUES. These scarves are indeed SPECIAL (deeply significant, in the usual denotation of the word, ie dictionary meaning, NOT specific to Hermes) to them. Yet, possibly indistinguishable from run-of-the-mill stuff, if they lack an inscription.

Rule of thumb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BrandsparkShop]

Mea culpa, my "rule of thumb" was trying just to be a bit witty - my pun failed. My "rule of thumb" was not trying to indicate a UNIVERSAL RULE but rather an "approximate" definition, cf infra which helps with the nuances of the term.

The pun was on the word SPECIAL. Many people seem willing to die on their swords (joke here) that their scarves are SPECIAL ISSUES. These scarves are indeed SPECIAL (deeply significant, in the usual denotation of the word, ie dictionary meaning, NOT specific to Hermes) to them. Yet, possibly indistinguishable from run-of-the-mill stuff, if they lack an inscription.

Rule of thumb - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

@marietouchet,

Pun did not fail!

It is good to keep the discussion a bit more lighthearted.

It is also good to share examples - as can be done on this forum.

I always try to prevent "false negatives" or "false positives" and sharing information is a good method for achieving that objective.

It might be all "normal" for you (or for me), but there are a lot of people out there that do not know how special (or not so special) the foulards that they possess or have obtained somehow.

And, to be honest, it hurts when hearing from somebody destroys a rare foulard, when have the strong conviction that it is a "not so special" foulard (and only "an old dirty piece of cloth").

Yes, I have encountered situations where the daughter-in-law did not have any feeling at all with a full series of Hermes foulards from 1937 to 1950 ...... and consequently decided to destroy them, without telling the mother-in-law.


There we have the strong aspect of this forum : sharing information, allowing people to make better evaluations and decisions.

In essence, navigating the world of Hermes can only be done with a compass and stong guideline.

It is a small effort for me (and you) to share information, right?

And those people that insist to die on their proverbial swords ...... well, whatever, let them do what they want.

Kind regards....

 

[turfnsurf]

A simple rule I use… A scarf with an INSCRIPTION for outside group (that is NOT Hermes) is more SPECIAL than an design/cw done for Hermes ( eg for anniversary of boutique, these are often NOT inscribed).

Yes, there are BILLIONS of exceptions..

BTW commande speciale translates as custom order (by an outside group) eg for VIVENDI (who footed the bill).

Your French fluency comes in so handy!

Regardless of how some publications may categorize things it makes sense that printed inscriptions remain irrefutably custom, whereas “special/limited” colorways must rely on evidence not attached to the silk (accompanying card, etc.) and can easily lose it’s distinction with the simple release of more- e.g. Battery Park.

 

[Maedi]

Good morning all! I am very very delighted to share my recent acquisition: Salt Marsh (SE or LE?) issued in 2003. This design by Rachel Knight was the competition winner on a collaboration between Hermes and the Savannah College of Art and Design. I haven't been able to find much about it (my SE and LE Carre d'Art books are in another location, so any info gratefully received). I understand only three cws were issued: a "pear" green, this brown/aubergine and an orange. I did find this on a First Dibs ad:
"Hermes supports the arts and artists, students and professionals alike! This particular carre was designed by Savannah College of Art and Design Alumna Rachael Knight (Class of 2002). Limited Edition? OUI! Knight describes the experience of going to Lyon, France, to view the printing of her scarf at the Hermes silk atelier as "perhaps the best day of my life". The overall design celebrates the metamorphosis of a caterpillar to butterfly...the "Salt Marsh" caterpillar to be exact!"
Because I live adjacent to a complicated ecosystem of estuary, beach and salt marsh, I just had to have this scarf! I am especially taken with the fact that it celebrates a metamorphoses of the kind I see on my walks...
View attachment 5811141
View attachment 5811142

It’s gorgeous and I am especially taken by the strawberries. Great colors, too.

 

[BrandsparkShop]

Your French fluency comes in so handy!

Regardless of how some publications may categorize things it makes sense that printed inscriptions remain irrefutably custom, whereas “special/limited” colorways must rely on evidence not attached to the silk (accompanying card, etc.) and can easily lose it’s distinction with the simple release of more- e.g. Battery Park.

@turfnsurf,

I am reminded by your post about two exceptions.

First, Hermes offers the option of "customization" of some of the scarf designs : one can add an inscription / embroidery etc and these are NOT special editions.

In most cases, the inscription is a small text (like initials) that is added by one individual customer.

Second, Battery Park.

Well, wasn't that a storm in a glass water? We were offered a "special edition" and next year, it was included in the collection.

Actually, Hermes already made "regular variants" in the same year that the (alleged) "special edition" was released. Afterwards, it was the opinion of Hermes themselves that "Battery Park" was not a special edition.

I am still not sure what to make of the scarf itself and certainly not sure what to make of the actions / opinions of Hermes.


Kind regards....