Reference: Guide to Hermes Scarves

[cherchezlabelle]

Can someone help me, please? Did H ever issue a 140cm titled La Fabrique des Rubans? Also, should a summer twill 140 ever feel like polyester?
I've asked 3 knowledgeable collectors and haven't gotten an answer. I'd be happy to pay an authenticator to give me their opinion.
Thanks so much!

 

[marietouchet]

Can someone help me, please? Did H ever issue a 140cm titled La Fabrique des Rubans? Also, should a summer twill 140 ever feel like polyester?
I've asked 3 knowledgeable collectors and haven't gotten an answer. I'd be happy to pay an authenticator to give me their opinion.
Thanks so much!

Yes they did a lightweight 140cm silk twill Fabrique

People have different opinions about the lightweight / summer / plume twill varying from "love it " to "it feels like cheap Chinese fake silk "
I would not say it feels like polyester, just like thinner silk than in the 90cm
Thinner silk wears differently , some say it wrinkles more , and some consider that an advantage

 

[cherchezlabelle]

Thank you so much, marietouchet!

 

[burberrydebbie]

A friend of mine has a Phantom of the Opera scarf. I have never even seen it and I want it. Does anyone have an old photo of it ... and what would be a fair price to give her for it?

 

[this_is_rj]

Hi, I have a photo of a twilly that I really like. Can anyone help me identify the print/name so I can try and track it down? Thanks in advance.

 

[marietouchet]

Not sure - I have a headache looking at the tiny picture and twillies - especially the mashup designs - look alike and are hard to tell apart
THis one seems to have some ETRIERS & DELLA CAVALLERIA (sp?) in it , so, try looking under those two names

 

[HoneyLocks]

Hi, I have a photo of a twilly that I really like. Can anyone help me identify the print/name so I can try and track it down? Thanks in advance.

http://all-en.hermes.com/la-maison-...5cm-cavalleria-d-etriers-marine-ca-98979.html
Cavalleria d'Etriers
Twilly in 100% silk (86 x 5 cm)
Color : marine/canard/beige
Ref. : H062976S 08

good luck!

 

[this_is_rj]

Thank you so much HoneyLocks

 

[lanit]

Can someone help me, please? Did H ever issue a 140cm titled La Fabrique des Rubans? Also, should a summer twill 140 ever feel like polyester?
I've asked 3 knowledgeable collectors and haven't gotten an answer. I'd be happy to pay an authenticator to give me their opinion.
Thanks so much!

I have this 140 silk and I love its weight. I find myself the summer silk weight perfect for our area's warm climate. The design always receives many compliments when i wear to meetings and events. Mine is the black bordered one with multicolors throughout. hTH.

 

[Pautinka]

Hello marietouchet and everybody on this thread. Here is a bit of a puzzler. Here is one of my old (very old!) scarves called Les Fleurs Animées. I know that Grygkar made one of this name back in the forties or fifties but in a completely different wheel design. The drawings and title on my scarf have much more in common however with Grygkar's scarf than the with the illustrations and title in the original book of the same name. This scarf is beautifully drawn with much fine detail (cream accents on cream silk, for example). There is no mention of Hermès on the scarf but I cannot help but think that this is a very early H one from which perhaps Grygkar drew inspiration. Has anybody ever come across this design format before ?
As always, thank you for your help and comments.

 

[marietouchet]

About Fleurs Animees - I really dont know - all I could do is to propose hypotheses - it could be a test printing ,
But without Hermes Paris printed on it there is no way to know without asking Hermes. It is hard to look at your silk and recognize the work of Grygkar since his style would be masked by the fact that this design is copied from an engraving.
And you have to talk to the right person at Hermes, an average SA would not know, you would have to talk to an archivist.
Many scarf attributions currently floating around EVERYWHERE - started with a long lost email to Hermes - but the accuracy of the answers has come into question They seem to have been casual answers - and sometimes dates were misreported, dates have been typed wrong etc. Errors seem to have propagated themselves. So, I would take Grygkar and 1947 with a grain of salt - those data need to be confirmed by Hermes. for the scarf exemplar with the circular design. This one could be 5 years earlier ??
For example:
Grygkar - WITH VERY RARE EXCEPTIONS - is generally held to be the artist for all designs 1942 - 1959 according to all the attribution lists. . Very few of these designs were ever formally attributed by Hermes IN WRITING (in na CURATED book). . I am not saying Grygkar is NOT the artist, but we know Ledoux and others worked for Hermes in those years, and seem to have produced absolutely nothing - go figure !

 

[Pautinka]

About Fleurs Animees - I really dont know - all I could do is to propose hypotheses - it could be a test printing ,
But without Hermes Paris printed on it there is no way to know without asking Hermes. It is hard to look at your silk and recognize the work of Grygkar since his style would be masked by the fact that this design is copied from an engraving.
And you have to talk to the right person at Hermes, an average SA would not know, you would have to talk to an archivist.
Many scarf attributions currently floating around EVERYWHERE - started with a long lost email to Hermes - but the accuracy of the answers has come into question They seem to have been casual answers - and sometimes dates were misreported, dates have been typed wrong etc. Errors seem to have propagated themselves. So, I would take Grygkar and 1947 with a grain of salt - those data need to be confirmed by Hermes. for the scarf exemplar with the circular design. This one could be 5 years earlier ??
For example:
Grygkar - WITH VERY RARE EXCEPTIONS - is generally held to be the artist for all designs 1942 - 1959 according to all the attribution lists. . Very few of these designs were ever formally attributed by Hermes IN WRITING (in na CURATED book). . I am not saying Grygkar is NOT the artist, but we know Ledoux and others worked for Hermes in those years, and seem to have produced absolutely nothing - go figure !

Thank you marietouchet for your kind reply. I take on board all of your comments. I had not thought of the possibility of a test print scarf (and I do understand that this is mere conjecture and one of many hypotheses!). I know this thread has dreamed many times of how wonderful it would be if Hermès produced a curated book! Thank you also for explaining about the attributions to Grygkar when scarves may have been by any other of the artists working alongside him at the time. I appreciate the time and courtesy you always show we less-educated but still in-love-with-silk scarf devotees.

 

[marietouchet]

Thank you marietouchet for your kind reply. I take on board all of your comments. I had not thought of the possibility of a test print scarf (and I do understand that this is mere conjecture and one of many hypotheses!). I know this thread has dreamed many times of how wonderful it would be if Hermès produced a curated book! Thank you also for explaining about the attributions to Grygkar when scarves may have been by any other of the artists working alongside him at the time. I appreciate the time and courtesy you always show we less-educated but still in-love-with-silk scarf devotees.

Have thjught a bit about this subject ... Why has Hermes never published a list of date/title for scarves ?
I conjecture the answer has to do with intellectual property / copyrights
Best explained with an example .. we know that Ledoux worked for Hermes much earlier than he signed .. so surely some of those old naval / military special issues are his work ? But, if Hermes published a list - formally attributing all the oldies - then wouldn't Hermes have to give Ledoux's family royalties for his early designs ?
Grygkar gets credit for 1957's Brides de Gala - in all sorts of formal booklets - and surely his family gets royalties ... and bragging rights (that ist was his work)
Well why I can see why formal recognition of contributions of the other artists of the period - those who did not sign, at least early on -Gavarni , Ledoux , Dauchez, Pittner etc - would cause problems

 

[marietouchet]

Someone PM'd me and I thought I would the share the answer which is likely of interest to many
GM is French for Grand Modèle the big version/model - read BIG
PM is French for Petit Modèle the small version/model - read SMALL
H uses the terms GM and PM for lots of stuff - bags, bracelets , scarves so, a PM bangle is the small one for those with tiny wrists, the GM is for those with bigger wrists
The terms date back to when there were maybe two sizes of an item eg 90cm and 140cm scarves, the term CSGM stuck - it is a 140cm sq cashmere. THe term GM refers generally to the 140cm size. THe term CSPM is sometimes used aa 90cm cashmere scarf. THere were 45cm cashmere scarves, but they never had a name that stuck.
Now, of course, you will say BUT BUT BUT there are 45 cm, 55 cm, 70 cm scarves etc and there are lots of other sizes of bags, bracelets etc. Sometimes they use TPM - très Petit Modèle for the the itty bitty Evelyne bag.
Again PM and GM are anachronistic and date back to when there were only 2 sizes of whatever, nowadays Hermes uses lots of terms for the 140cm carré géant (giant square appears on the website a lot), but the term CSGM survives as does GM for a 140cm square
Of course, there are losange GMs, giant losange shaped scarves ..
None of this terminology is exactly unambiguous
It should now be clear as mud to all and there will be a test at 2 pm

 

[marietouchet]

Another general interest question received via PM, Full disclosure - I am no expert on cashmere , dont own one, am allergic. The questions was about pills/pulls and can a spa visit help ?
First definitions - a pull/run is the same for CS as for twill, a thread is yanked out of place, and fabric may then bunch, and the run often shows because the colored yanked thread is no longer in the correct spot. A pull/run can often be worked out of a fabric, if you have a good touch. It may not disappear. One thing though, there are now micro runs - due to the seamtresses - at the hems, a dull (not sharp) needle makes itty bitty runs at each stitch. Nothing to be done about those micro runs - IMHO they are manufacturing defects.
Pilling (sp?)/ piling is when a wool or cashmere fabric shows lumps due to abrasion/use. H has used at least 3 different fabrics in CSGMs in the last 15 years - all wear differently. The lumps get worse due to wear but I have seen CSGMs in the stores with a lumpy surface, this show esp if the lighting is harsh. The CS fabric durability has been discussed here at great length in other threads. Can you remove the lumps? Yes, if you have a good hand, the surface can be razored to remove the lumps.
I have read about non Hermes services to restore cashmeres, and people have been satisfied but the service may not give you back a perfect scarf.
I dont know if Hermes offers a spa treatment for CS, its effectiveness would depend a lot on the magnitude of the damage run/pill and on which fabric is involved (which one of the 3 - they were of varying durability)