I am very sorry to hear of the final resolution of this @SupaUltra_J. I very much admire the equanimity with which you have been handling all this. At least you got the comfort of having Hermes go through three layers of control before finally getting back to you and I very much hope you are able now to redress the issue with the seller so as at least not loose the money over this, good luck.
I'm in need of advice..my authenticated K28 is deemed fake by Paris HQ
- Thread starter SupaUltra_J
- Start date
TPF may earn a commission from merchant affiliate
links, including eBay, Amazon, and others
- Status
SupaUltra_J, this is a very unfortunate outcome. I am deeply sympathetic to your circumstances.
Given the recent updates, is absolutely no question in my mind that:
1) The bag is NOT authentic. I have absolute trust in Hermes authentication system and believe every reasonable doubt with regards to the origin of the bag has been appropriately addressed by the company holding all intellectual rights to the product.
2) 3rd party authentication process has either failed OR the the 3rd party authentication has been presented with fraudulent photos for authentication. While I do not completely disregard the possibility of fraudulent photos, I am also quite realistic about the fact that the authentication did not assess the bag in person. The 3rd party authenticator is a human being who is also capable of genuine mistakes. Hence why 3rd party authentication bere no liability and only express their “opinion” as to the authenticity of the bag. Either way, I would trust Hermes authentication any day over any 3rd party authentication. In this instance, the authenticator should offer you 100% refund of the cost of authentication. On a more personal note I find it quite unsettling that the authenticator keeps insisting that her opinion is correct and Hermes authentication is blatantly wrong. I do believe suggesting that multiple authentication attempts by the company and people who supposedly made the item in question are erroneous, while authentication by a 3rd party based on a set of photos is correct is simply inappropriate.
3) If the seller is unable to produce further evidence to create further reasonable double about the authenticity of the bag, they must provide full refund. Supplying fake goods under false pretences is fraud and it is punishable by law.
Given the recent updates, is absolutely no question in my mind that:
1) The bag is NOT authentic. I have absolute trust in Hermes authentication system and believe every reasonable doubt with regards to the origin of the bag has been appropriately addressed by the company holding all intellectual rights to the product.
2) 3rd party authentication process has either failed OR the the 3rd party authentication has been presented with fraudulent photos for authentication. While I do not completely disregard the possibility of fraudulent photos, I am also quite realistic about the fact that the authentication did not assess the bag in person. The 3rd party authenticator is a human being who is also capable of genuine mistakes. Hence why 3rd party authentication bere no liability and only express their “opinion” as to the authenticity of the bag. Either way, I would trust Hermes authentication any day over any 3rd party authentication. In this instance, the authenticator should offer you 100% refund of the cost of authentication. On a more personal note I find it quite unsettling that the authenticator keeps insisting that her opinion is correct and Hermes authentication is blatantly wrong. I do believe suggesting that multiple authentication attempts by the company and people who supposedly made the item in question are erroneous, while authentication by a 3rd party based on a set of photos is correct is simply inappropriate.
3) If the seller is unable to produce further evidence to create further reasonable double about the authenticity of the bag, they must provide full refund. Supplying fake goods under false pretences is fraud and it is punishable by law.
Dear - I believe you. I was just saying that we have seen a lot on this forum to never rule out any scenario of what people would do for an Hermes bag. I am wish you all the best with getting a refund from the Seller. It should be much easier since you have an established relationship with him/her. Big hugs
Sorry to hear about the final verdict, and thank you for sharing your experience. I appreciate the cautionary tale you've told.
Even we buy directly from a company, we are trusting them to maintain control of their goods from production to boxing to shipping to retail sale.
I wonder if Hermes headquarters is willing to destroy what may actually be a genuine handbag simply to put the kibosh on vintage/limited edition reselling. They probably recognize that tPF/Instagram are big sources of info and might be willing to alienate a few genuine fans in order to scare off some people dabbling in purchases not completed at an Hermes retail location. I would have thought, though, that the company is happy to have fans seeking to expand its legacy, and I don't know how they expect people to procure no-longer-available styles if not secondhand.
Wait - why aren't we suing the seller but only suing Hermes? And why is the authenticator who only saw pictures (but can't confirm what was sent to Paris) the key witness here? I'm starting to get confused. It's like asking someone who was not at an accident scene to go bear witness in court.
I've read this whole thread and while I very much sympathise with the OP (she has done all her due diligence and in this case, has just been dealt with really bad luck), I completely agreed with your sentiments in bold above. That's exactly how I felt when I read the authenticator's posts. However, I think another member has explained it well (quoted below): we probably can't expect the authenticator to admit that she could possibly be wrong because after all, her whole business depends on her opinions being credible. Just by admitting that there's even a slight chance that she has made a mistake, even just once only, this will forever be remembered by past and future customers. And many of us do not want to believe that she was wrong here because that would call all our previous purchases from resellers which have been authenticated by her into question. This is no doubt an even more unsettling thought!
After all, businesses stand by their products and authenticators stand by their opinions - that is simply how it goes as I have come to accept. Unfortunately or fortunately, Hermes as the maker of the items, have the last say in this whether we believe their assessment to be wrong or not.
I totally agree with you that my thought process can be applied towards the Authenticator as well.
I was merely outlining the possibility that even if H made error, we would never know because I doubt they will admit because they have everything to loose!
In no way I am implying they made an error!
I just think even if they did, It is easier to sacrifice the lamb (one they have no obligation towards) than taking a ding on their prestige and reputation even if it’s morally, ethically and justifiedly right thing to do.
Going back to my story above, it truly disappointed me how the Head of Dept just simply washed his hands off because the bully has been in the company for a long time and good at her job???
Seriously??? What happened to decency and treating each other with respect?
And...the recruitment agency and job ads cost of constantly finding replacements so to speak!
So unfortunately, “it’s the right thing to do” doesn’t mean a thing!
Apology - I digressed!!!
Now I must insert a disclaimer that my knowledge of H is next to nothing except admiration of their quality and beautiful design so I don’t even dare contemplating on which side I think made the error in authenticating.
Last edited:
What a story! Wow.
I have been directed towards reading this by a friend of mine as I have been terribly hectic for some (long) time now, no time for TPF.
Problem here is, this is not only about this specific situation. The problem goes far beyond. It is a mirror of the times we live in and the crisis of the fashion du jour. Nobody knows anymore, nobody can be trusted either. Such are the matters.
Too many "good" fakes (apostrophes on point and on point), too many resellers. Hermés failing to to sell their bags to real clients and even worse- handling the issues directly connected with it in the satisfactory way.
To be completely fair, Hermés indeed has their ways to find out (almost beyond ANY doubt) whether the bag was or was not manufactured by them. They take it apart, they know. For each year of production there are certain (known by and disclosed only to the craftsmen and the most inner members of the company ) details and "signs" which do identify authenticity of the bags. I suspect the bag indeed was taken apart and absence of such was discovered. But this too COULD be a human error.
However- nobody (except the staffers in charge) witnessed it, nobody was present. Not the buyer, nor the seller, nor the external authenticator, nor anyone from us, the forum members. Which, unfortunately, can leave us all forever guessing.
I think this is rather a memento to all of us to buy strictly from our boutiques. Because it's obvious that even the most reputable reseller is no more the guarantee. Period.
The problem with reselling has been something Hermés is not capable of effectively solving for many years. Maybe the problem will finally start solving itself. Au naturale.
I have been directed towards reading this by a friend of mine as I have been terribly hectic for some (long) time now, no time for TPF.
Problem here is, this is not only about this specific situation. The problem goes far beyond. It is a mirror of the times we live in and the crisis of the fashion du jour. Nobody knows anymore, nobody can be trusted either. Such are the matters.
Too many "good" fakes (apostrophes on point and on point), too many resellers. Hermés failing to to sell their bags to real clients and even worse- handling the issues directly connected with it in the satisfactory way.
To be completely fair, Hermés indeed has their ways to find out (almost beyond ANY doubt) whether the bag was or was not manufactured by them. They take it apart, they know. For each year of production there are certain (known by and disclosed only to the craftsmen and the most inner members of the company ) details and "signs" which do identify authenticity of the bags. I suspect the bag indeed was taken apart and absence of such was discovered. But this too COULD be a human error.
However- nobody (except the staffers in charge) witnessed it, nobody was present. Not the buyer, nor the seller, nor the external authenticator, nor anyone from us, the forum members. Which, unfortunately, can leave us all forever guessing.
I think this is rather a memento to all of us to buy strictly from our boutiques. Because it's obvious that even the most reputable reseller is no more the guarantee. Period.
The problem with reselling has been something Hermés is not capable of effectively solving for many years. Maybe the problem will finally start solving itself. Au naturale.
You can choose to trust whoever you want but there is absolutely zero sense to make a fake bag in this rare bag style. People make fake bags will make them to not look like fakes and this style to most inexperienced buyers look like a "fake" to start with! They will make bags that they know will sell quickly and this isn't one of them. And don't even think for a second that OP just happen to have a fake one in this very rare style lying about, and happen to found a real one with the exact spec on the resell market, bought it and swapped it around. It's just not very probable at all!
And if OP was set out to scam anyone, why advertise it on public forum? Those examples of scammer's threads some people quoted, they haven't succeeded their scam and they were trying out the scenarios to see if anybody could pick a hole in those. OP already have (for multiple times) what she needed to claim her money back for sure. So why go through the trouble and post here to draw attention to herself??? Doesn't make sense at all!
Having said all of that, the reality is Hermes has more authority over their own product. So it doesn't matter what authenticators say "in the court of law" unfortunately. At this point, if I were the OP, I would just work with the reseller to get her money back.
The reseller should also be able to trace it back to the original consignor of the bag. If I remember clearly, OP said in this case the original paper work was not available. The only way to retrieve the original sales record is for the 1st owner of the bag to contact the boutique to ask for a reprint. I have experienced this for a bag which was first bought in the 90s. So this can be done. But only by the request of the original purchaser of the bag.
And if OP was set out to scam anyone, why advertise it on public forum? Those examples of scammer's threads some people quoted, they haven't succeeded their scam and they were trying out the scenarios to see if anybody could pick a hole in those. OP already have (for multiple times) what she needed to claim her money back for sure. So why go through the trouble and post here to draw attention to herself??? Doesn't make sense at all!
Having said all of that, the reality is Hermes has more authority over their own product. So it doesn't matter what authenticators say "in the court of law" unfortunately. At this point, if I were the OP, I would just work with the reseller to get her money back.
The reseller should also be able to trace it back to the original consignor of the bag. If I remember clearly, OP said in this case the original paper work was not available. The only way to retrieve the original sales record is for the 1st owner of the bag to contact the boutique to ask for a reprint. I have experienced this for a bag which was first bought in the 90s. So this can be done. But only by the request of the original purchaser of the bag.
Last edited:
You are absolutely right about the authenticator trying to protect her reputation. However, the blatant denial of any potential error on the authenticators behalf had the complete opposite affect on me. I took it as completely inappropriate and to be honest, quite off putting. Of course reasonable doubt always exists when items are authenticated by a 3rd party who not affiliated with or trained by Hermes directly. So as a loyal Hermes customer, I would be more inclined to use expertise of an authenticator who is willing to admit the shortcomings associated with authenticating a bag based on photos only and who is willing to state that absolute guarantee regarding authenticity of the item can only be given by the manufacturer.
After reading the recent speculations I feel like I need to say a few words.
To date, using the same set of photos, multiple authenticators have provided opinions and each has come to the same conclusion about the bag's authenticity. It is unfair and to me highly inappropriate to depict the picture that the authenticator I worked with prior to purchasing is in "blatant" denial of any potential error. Her opinion is verified by equally reputable peers in the field.
The seller is also beyond cooperative and supportive, and stands by her "life long money back authenticity guarantee". We are just awaiting to receive the Letter of Expertise and Affidavit before processing the refund, which I think is a very fair call by the seller. Meanwhile the seller was able to get in touch with the previous owner who happens to have kept one email exchanged with FSH about the exact bag. Now with a reference number, it opens up the possibility of querying for more info by someone within Paris HQ. The previous owner seems to be in a much more favourable position to directly get in touch with Paris HQ. Hopefully she can make a difference there.
Hermes being the creator, without being close to any VIP status, I feel my voice is falling on deaf ears.
To date, using the same set of photos, multiple authenticators have provided opinions and each has come to the same conclusion about the bag's authenticity. It is unfair and to me highly inappropriate to depict the picture that the authenticator I worked with prior to purchasing is in "blatant" denial of any potential error. Her opinion is verified by equally reputable peers in the field.
The seller is also beyond cooperative and supportive, and stands by her "life long money back authenticity guarantee". We are just awaiting to receive the Letter of Expertise and Affidavit before processing the refund, which I think is a very fair call by the seller. Meanwhile the seller was able to get in touch with the previous owner who happens to have kept one email exchanged with FSH about the exact bag. Now with a reference number, it opens up the possibility of querying for more info by someone within Paris HQ. The previous owner seems to be in a much more favourable position to directly get in touch with Paris HQ. Hopefully she can make a difference there.
Hermes being the creator, without being close to any VIP status, I feel my voice is falling on deaf ears.
Dear, I wish for you that the original buyer can make a difference in this situation - and I hope you get a satisfactory outcome! Sorry for how this went so far!
I do wonder if one reason to reject the bag is that it went through the secondary market - is this is a deliberate H move to discourage anyone to buy anywhere else but the boutique?
I hope that the previous owner will be able to help. It will be very sad if a truly authentic bag has been destroyed. the reseller will also be out of $$, which she would have to find a way to get back from the previous owner, and then the previous owner would be out of $$ and out of a special rare bag too.
It seems like a stern warning from H, basically telling everyone you’re not allowed to resell our bags or buy bags from resellers, even though it’s so difficult to buy the bags (in the colour and leather that you want) from their boutiques (if you’re a normal non-VIP person).
It seems like a stern warning from H, basically telling everyone you’re not allowed to resell our bags or buy bags from resellers, even though it’s so difficult to buy the bags (in the colour and leather that you want) from their boutiques (if you’re a normal non-VIP person).
Please stop saying that Hermes is doing this to stop reselling market. Absolutely NOT! There are many many bags bought on the reselling market have been serviced by Hermes without any issues! Many belong to our members here. Geez...
- Status