Scarves Hermès Scarf Identification

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#2,313
Good morning. Anyone an idea what those two would be worth? Any of them rare? Both in perfect condition.
 

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#2,316
xincinsin said:
Hermes gavroches are 16 inch by 16 inch (42cm x 42cm).
Click to expand...
Lots of sellers mismeasure scarves and get confused between inches and centimeters.
And it is hard to measure an older one that is out of square.
AND to make it really hard ... The Hermes web site now claims gavroches to be 18 inches square on US site and 45cm on French site - 45 cm is a bit shy of a full 18 inches
https://www.hermes.com/fr/fr/carres-et-accessoires-en-soie/femme/#||Catégorie
https://www.hermes.com/us/en/product/les-tigreaux-scarf-45-H892491Sv07/
 
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#2,317
Sorry if wrong thread—feel free to move somewhere else.

Does anyone know how to distinguish these two so-similar scarves?
The pink/multi (web search result) which can be other graduated colors & has game words around edges vs. the blue, which has graphic-corner borders, fewer words (the only one of the two I’ve found on HSCI database web site as THE 1955 scarf).

Web search indicates either one or the other is claimed by some sources to be THE 1955 version while “the other” must be later.
The graduated color scheme is said to be twill 90 hand-hemmed while the blue/graphic bordered is by some described as 80cm and machine hemmed.

C52F5162-2781-4F7F-88AA-E76F288EF39F.png

2B364A6D-3FE3-477B-962D-8135408CD8EC.png
 
#2,318
Jbizzybeetle said:
Sorry if wrong thread—feel free to move somewhere else.

Does anyone know how to distinguish these two so-similar scarves?
The pink/multi (web search result) which can be other graduated colors & has game words around edges vs. the blue, which has graphic-corner borders, fewer words (the only one of the two I’ve found on HSCI database web site as THE 1955 scarf).

Web search indicates either one or the other is claimed by some sources to be THE 1955 version while “the other” must be later.
The graduated color scheme is said to be twill 90 hand-hemmed while the blue/graphic bordered is by some described as 80cm and machine hemmed.

View attachment 4534934

View attachment 4534935
Click to expand...
The monochrome one is 1970s - 1980s , crepe , 80 cm , may or may not have machine hems , based on my own scarves
The tricolor I don’t own , assume it is 90cm twill
 
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#2,319
marietouchet said:
The monochrome one is 1970s - 1980s , crepe , 80 cm , may or may not have machine hems , based on my own scarves
The tricolor I don’t own , assume it is 90cm twill
Click to expand...

Very interesting! many questions to sort thru. I’m sure not the one to correct the HSCI members who have the monochrome as the 1955 edition.
Could your crepe be georgette silk? One source I emailed with today suggested.
 
#2,320
Jbizzybeetle said:
Sorry if wrong thread—feel free to move somewhere else.

Does anyone know how to distinguish these two so-similar scarves?
The pink/multi (web search result) which can be other graduated colors & has game words around edges vs. the blue, which has graphic-corner borders, fewer words (the only one of the two I’ve found on HSCI database web site as THE 1955 scarf).

Web search indicates either one or the other is claimed by some sources to be THE 1955 version while “the other” must be later.
The graduated color scheme is said to be twill 90 hand-hemmed while the blue/graphic bordered is by some described as 80cm and machine hemmed.

View attachment 4534934

View attachment 4534935
Click to expand...
Ps re HSCI database and all the other websites ... sometimes the answer is complicated , esp for the oldies , there is no single one line answer, it can go on and on and on ... the sites and databases may only have short answers
 
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#2,321
Jbizzybeetle said:
Very interesting! many questions to sort thru. I’m sure not the one to correct the HSCI members who have the monochrome as the 1955 edition.
Could your crepe be georgette silk? One source I emailed with today suggested.
Click to expand...
Oh golly georgette ? Beats me ... will some one please send me a georgette sample ? Lol
I keep going to wiki for fabric definitions and I just can’t get it without samples, in hand
Mine are crepe, but not very crepe-y, a smooth surface , like the surface of a peach
H has used a lot of fabrics and I just lack the technical accuracy to describe them
It drives me nuts all these fabrics just say 100 percent silk , as if they are the same , to me they all feel different and they certainly are not twill
I hate that summer twill is marked the same as 90cm weight twill... end of rant , sorry
 
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#2,322
marietouchet said:
Oh golly georgette ? Beats me ... will some one please send me a georgette sample ? Lol
I keep going to wiki for fabric definitions and I just can’t get it without samples, in hand
Mine are crepe, but not very crepe-y, a smooth surface , like the surface of a peach
H has used a lot of fabrics and I just lack the technical accuracy to describe them
It drives me nuts all these fabrics just say 100 percent silk , as if they are the same , to me they all feel different and they certainly are not twill
I hate that summer twill is marked the same as 90cm weight twill... end of rant , sorry
Click to expand...

hahaha! just learned of georgette today with this listing by carredeparis

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hermes-Sil...224676?hash=item56c4664724:g:G7MAAOSwowdcyNyR

then a trusted reseller said her monochrome Jeu du Pair is georgette silk but it isn’t listed yet.
 
#2,323
I am not a textile expert but I know that silk georgette is somewhat sheer like silk chiffon but has a stiffer hand because the yarn is twisted, (usually) two or three ply yarns. Chiffon feels flow-y and soft, while georgette will have more body and often a slight sheen. I think fabrics aren’t always described correctly though today. Older publications I find are often more accurate with fabric descriptions. I wonder why that is?

Crepe is, I believe, often one of the more expensive weaves especially in natural fibers because it takes a lot more yarn to produce a yard of fabric as the yarn is twisted until it curls or crimps, which is what gives crepe its nice spring, and makes it so great at shrugging off wrinkles. It can be done as a plain-weave, or as crepe-backed satin (or satin-backed crepe). That’s all I know from a few Design classes. I’m sure there are seamstresses who have all the details.
 
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#2,325
Jbizzybeetle said:
hahaha! just learned of georgette today with this listing by carredeparis

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Hermes-Sil...224676?hash=item56c4664724:g:G7MAAOSwowdcyNyR

then a trusted reseller said her monochrome Jeu du Pair is georgette silk but it isn’t listed yet.
Click to expand...
Etriers said:
I am not a textile expert but I know that silk georgette is somewhat sheer like silk chiffon but has a stiffer hand because the yarn is twisted, (usually) two or three ply yarns. Chiffon feels flow-y and soft, while georgette will have more body and often a slight sheen. I think fabrics aren’t always described correctly though today. Older publications I find are often more accurate with fabric descriptions. I wonder why that is?

Crepe is, I believe, often one of the more expensive weaves especially in natural fibers because it takes a lot more yarn to produce a yard of fabric as the yarn is twisted until it curls or crimps, which is what gives crepe its nice spring, and makes it so great at shrugging off wrinkles. It can be done as a plain-weave, or as crepe-backed satin (or satin-backed crepe). That’s all I know from a few Design classes. I’m sure there are seamstresses who have all the details.
Click to expand...
The tricky thing with Hermes is that they either
Do not provide a detailed description - the older ones from the 1980s - are marked carré in catalogs, the fact that they are not twill is not mentioned
Or, change the weight of a given fabric ie twill has come in many weights over the years - I probably have a dozen different 90cm twill weight fabrics - but , of course, I am into the oldies , these are better standardized now
Or, worse yet, they use some (supposedly) useful term in a loosy-goosy fashion. Mousseline, chiffon, voile are used on the web sites to refer to a variety of weaves and fabric blends (cotton, silk/cotton, CS/silk). Even the recent Nepalese CS blends are called mousses at times
In a nutshell, Hermes-speak is not an exact language. Same thing applies to size - is a gavroche 18 in or 45 cm ?
 
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