Scarves Hermès scarf colors

[marietouchet]

General question MT, do you know if the process for producing ethical (kinder/humane) silk produces the same sort of quality? ie would it have the same handle feel, does a few extra days of the cocoon make a difference to quality and subsequent product?

I have no clue on that. The H cocoons come from Brazil, then the silk fabric is woven in Lyon. Your guess is as good as mine
But, if you think of all the silks that H makes: vintage - woven differently , twill, summer twill - lightweight, wash - basic twill but acid washed ?, they all feel different, you can get the feel you want by weaving (vintage) or processing (acid wash) or changing the weight (summer twill) ...
And if you look on the caretag - they all say 100 % silk, as if they were all made the same , which they are not
So I bet you could get almost any feel with ethical silk, IF you tried hard enough
Fakes often dont feel right because they are lighter weight silk, but there are fakes of the correct weight and I cant tell them apart based on the hand of the silk.
The fakers chose to use lighter weight silk, for the most part, because of cost, they are aiming for a $30 price point not a $400 price point. They can do EXACT copies but they would sell fewer
PS I dont know if H would claim their silk is ethical or not
Remember the kerfuffle about crocodile skins for Birkins? Jane Birkin announced she would no longer allow them to use her name because their leather was not humanely produced. LOTS of stuff in the press about that ... the matter was quietly settled - not much press coverage ... I dont know if todays croco is more ethical or not .... well they still sell croco Birkins ...

 

[marietouchet]

What a beautiful design! Thank you for sharing this scarf. I may need to find one for myself

It is super HTF and goes for a good price

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

One of my finesse scarves from 23 years ago. Most true finesse were first done full color, then the finesse screen was stripped out for a reissue , of sorts, with only lines . Two color scarves - field color and line color. GRAND CORTEGE was doen full color then as a two color finesse.
Finesse these days can mean a lot of stuff, but mostly a pen & ink style drawing, less than 5 colors. I think the eyeliners were called Finesse on some of the web sites (?)
Finesse was never my thing, so, mine is atypical - of course ! I love atypical scarves. But this design is great. Mine was done only in finesse, CAVALCADE DE MAI, never in full color.
Clearly the lines are what could have been the finesse screen from a full color printing, like the lead in stained glass. But the finesse lines should be very crisp whereas in TOIT, I think , correct me if I am wrong, the lines are a bit blurry, trying to give the illusion of a pencil drawing.
Sorry no photo of reverse, but you can see the lines on the other side, fainter than on the front.

Very interesting! Leading me to pull out Cavaleria (1958) and Pegase et Chevaux (1960)—-to compare front to back. In both photos, the side with clear Hermes-Paris is the front.
Thought: Cavalleria appears to be done a bit more like Un Jardin Sur Le Toit, with a bit of same-color shading complementing “Pen&Ink” line drawings.

 

[marietouchet]

Very interesting! Leading me to pull out Cavaleria (1958) and Pegase et Chevaux (1960)—-to compare front to back. In both photos, the side with clear Hermes-Paris is the front.
Thought: Cavalleria appears to be done a bit more like Un Jardin Sur Le Toit, with a bit of same-color shading complementing “Pen&Ink” line drawings.

View attachment 4508450 View attachment 4508451

Those belong in their own category ... older ... UNIQUE ! COOL !
Those are both smaller than a 90, I think ?
In the olden days, H did not own all the silk factories that it now owns (no vertical integration), there was no standardization of the manufacturing, they bought scarves from various scarf houses (different fabrics, printing, designs) and sold them in the Hermes stores. The smaller ones were not necessarily made in the same way/factory as the 1950s 90s
I have a few smaller 1950s-ish ones and the hand is different, so I am thinking different factory than my 1950s-ish 90s

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

Those belong in their own category ... older ... UNIQUE ! COOL !
Those are both smaller than a 90, I think ?
In the olden days, H did not own all the silk factories that it now owns (no vertical integration), there was no standardization of the manufacturing, they bought scarves from various scarf houses (different fabrics, printing, designs) and sold them in the Hermes stores. The smaller ones were not necessarily made in the same way/factory as the 1950s 90s
I have a few smaller 1950s-ish ones and the hand is different, so I am thinking different factory than my 1950s-ish 90s

Good input on the integration model. I already put away but I think Cavaleria is 27inches or so, Pegase et Chevaux 1960 closer to 16 (the 1962 reissue with the larger border might have been larger format).

 

[marietouchet]

More on less ink ...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/womens-style/hermes-scarf-designer-alice-shirley/
I quote Alice Shirley:
"They have extraordinary ink-saving systems so there’s not a lot of waste, and they only print limited editions of each," says Shirley. "It’s not about seasonality. Hermès keep the scarves in the store until they sell. Once they’re gone, they’re gone. It would be so tempting for them to say, 'This design is so popular we need to do another one,' but they never do. It keeps the product luxurious. I love the idea you’re not creating mass product – you’re creating art."

Ok, I take this quote with a tiny grain of salt. There was a discussion at TPF of BATTERY PARK, a true special issue limited edition. More of them popped up about a year later, with one-year-later manufacturing date ... Lots of regular issues have widely varying manufacturing dates ... But for a special issue, one would expect a single printing ..

Anyway, going back to the top to the "extraordinary ink-saving systems". I dont know what those are...Do they wipe the ink off the squeegee and recycle ? As an engineer, I could see doing that...
But; another interpretation is that they screen with less ink to begin with - fewer passes
Or, they use different inks these days - different viscosity - an ink that is more watery would flow further, a syrupy ink will cover less

Anyway, I think one can read the above as saying they update their processes every so often, and manufacturing techniques evolve. It is not the same ole screening machine as in the 50s.

 

[marietouchet]

And on the recent 45cm JARDIN SUR LE TOIT - all cws show a pen & ink drawing, but the number of colors varies widely
The black and white - was two colors exactly, black field & white drawing
Cw 12 has a red building & red rooftop garden, other buildings are blue or green, and the field is beige, cf below, very different coloration
Most cws eg the gris/blanc/multi have the design in one color, but the rooftop garden is multicolor, as in blue exemplar below
Clearly widely varying numbers of colors (inks), perhaps they did more passes on the b&w cw since it had fewer colors/passes to begin with - more passes = better definition
The printing varies widely from cw to cw on JARDIN - the flowers are not colored in all cws, for ex

PS long term effects of these intended printing variations ... The lack of colored flowers is not an absolute tell of fakeness
Cf TPF discussions of orange Turandot (about a year ago), and of this week's chat about Mountain Zebra that lacked a stem on a flower
Photos from h.com

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

More on less ink ...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/luxury/womens-style/hermes-scarf-designer-alice-shirley/
I quote Alice Shirley:
"They have extraordinary ink-saving systems so there’s not a lot of waste, and they only print limited editions of each," says Shirley. "It’s not about seasonality. Hermès keep the scarves in the store until they sell. Once they’re gone, they’re gone. It would be so tempting for them to say, 'This design is so popular we need to do another one,' but they never do. It keeps the product luxurious. I love the idea you’re not creating mass product – you’re creating art."

Ok, I take this quote with a tiny grain of salt. There was a discussion at TPF of BATTERY PARK, a true special issue limited edition. More of them popped up about a year later, with one-year-later manufacturing date ... Lots of regular issues have widely varying manufacturing dates ... But for a special issue, one would expect a single printing ..

Anyway, going back to the top to the "extraordinary ink-saving systems". I dont know what those are...Do they wipe the ink off the squeegee and recycle ? As an engineer, I could see doing that...
But; another interpretation is that they screen with less ink to begin with - fewer passes
Or, they use different inks these days - different viscosity - an ink that is more watery would flow further, a syrupy ink will cover less

Anyway, I think one can read the above as saying they update their processes every so often, and manufacturing techniques evolve. It is not the same ole screening machine as in the 50s.

Is the Battery Park 2018 and later exactly the same CW in all respects as the 2017 original?
H still sells it as Limited Edition for only $415, compared to the pricing on eBay for several hundred more, yet the tags shown on ‘Bay are 2018.

 

[scarf1]

Is the Battery Park 2018 and later exactly the same CW in all respects as the 2017 original?
H still sells it as Limited Edition for only $415, compared to the pricing on eBay for several hundred more, yet the tags shown on ‘Bay are 2018.

Yes. The only difference is that the original 2017 one had the old smaller care tag. The actual CW is the same.

 

[xincinsin]

Is the Battery Park 2018 and later exactly the same CW in all respects as the 2017 original?
H still sells it as Limited Edition for only $415, compared to the pricing on eBay for several hundred more, yet the tags shown on ‘Bay are 2018.

H is still selling it?

 

[marietouchet]

H is still selling it?

Yup and I quote "LImited edition the Battery New York scarf" at $415 was on the US site 5 mins ago
The initial buzz
https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrys...-of-its-boutique-at-the-battery/#2ddacb1c25b2
I remember a story - not in the Forbes article, that the scarf was to be sold only at the Wall St store, which makes sense since the press release is mostly about the store 10th anniversary not the park
PS I remember a lot of limited editions sold on the H.site - Cheval Bleu, Katrina, Gloria Soli - dont remember the organization ...

 

[xincinsin]

Yup and I quote "LImited edition the Battery New York scarf" at $415 was on the US site 5 mins ago
The initial buzz
https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrys...-of-its-boutique-at-the-battery/#2ddacb1c25b2
I remember a story - not in the Forbes article, that the scarf was to be sold only at the Wall St store, which makes sense since the press release is mostly about the store 10th anniversary not the park
PS I remember a lot of limited editions sold on the H.site - Cheval Bleu, Katrina, Gloria Soli - dont remember the organization ...

Oh my! Yes, I see it too. It's not very limited any more, is it?

 

[momasaurus]

Oh my! Yes, I see it too. It's not very limited any more, is it?

I was miffed about their odd interpretation of "limited edition," but at least (they say) they are still donating proceeds to the Battery Park Conservancy, and that was the whole point in 2017 (big gala evening, auction, goodie bags, only one year in production rather than two, etc.).

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

Yup and I quote "LImited edition the Battery New York scarf" at $415 was on the US site 5 mins ago
The initial buzz
https://www.forbes.com/sites/barrys...-of-its-boutique-at-the-battery/#2ddacb1c25b2
I remember a story - not in the Forbes article, that the scarf was to be sold only at the Wall St store, which makes sense since the press release is mostly about the store 10th anniversary not the park
PS I remember a lot of limited editions sold on the H.site - Cheval Bleu, Katrina, Gloria Soli - dont remember the organization ...

A couple days ago, for grins —N stands for nerd, S stands for scarf—I checked all the care tags on the eBay listings, including request for one not included in listing photos. Only 1 of the 5 or so listed had the smaller “original” care tag. Seller wanted $900-$1,000 or so I think at the time.

 

[marietouchet]

A couple days ago, for grins —N stands for nerd, S stands for scarf—I checked all the care tags on the eBay listings, including request for one not included in listing photos. Only 1 of the 5 or so listed had the smaller “original” care tag. Seller wanted $900-$1,000 or so I think at the time.

I got such a chuckle out of this - priceless, merci !