Scarves Hermès scarf colors

[Jahna]

I have NEVER seen an official H publication explicitly mentioning digital printing ... There have been ambiguous recent press releases/interviews talking of the latest innovative scarf making techniques without saying what they are
But, there have been rumblings for 10 - 15 years of inkjet/digital printing and some fabrics smack of it (eg recent ones with blank reverses). My 2004-ish H Cinetique is the earliest that I know of. The one where the colors on the reverse are different than on the front, and where the printing went to the edge ca 2004 - super unusual at THAT time.
It is kind of like manufacturing location... scarves now bear labels saying made in Italy, Scotland, Bangladesh, India, Nepal etc - they are not all made in France but H never highlights the other locations - it is as if Lyon were still the only silk manufacturing location. Lyon as the only manufacturing location is a myth they allow to endure.

Thanks MT. Those sneaky devils! And the reverse is blank? Zut alors ! The scarves that I design, if they are not silk-screened, I back them with plain or patterned silk.
I guess that should make the older scarves more valuable.
I wondered how they could put out so many more scarves, some with seemingly endless colors.

 

[momasaurus]

Gr8! I’ll take a look at photo of it.
Were there any other la Cite Cavaliere there at the time?
I haven’t annoyed my SS there in a week, so must be time.

Sorry, I just don't remember, as I've recently been in Paris and also the Meatpacking store and I saw the orange CW somewhere. I'm going back to Madison soon, will report back to you!

 

[momasaurus]

I have NEVER seen an official H publication explicitly mentioning digital printing ... There have been ambiguous recent press releases/interviews talking of the latest innovative scarf making techniques without saying what they are
But, there have been rumblings for 10 - 15 years of inkjet/digital printing and some fabrics smack of it (eg recent ones with blank reverses). My 2004-ish H Cinetique is the earliest that I know of. The one where the colors on the reverse are different than on the front, and where the printing went to the edge ca 2004 - super unusual at THAT time.
It is kind of like manufacturing location... scarves now bear labels saying made in Italy, Scotland, Bangladesh, India, Nepal etc - they are not all made in France but H never highlights the other locations - it is as if Lyon were still the only silk manufacturing location. Lyon as the only manufacturing location is a myth they allow to endure.

I thought the printing on the spring scarf with the giant butterfly was particularly weird looking. I know people like the design but the surface looked one-dimensional and cheap to me. Same with the reissue of Les Amoureux. They don't have the complexity and depth of older H designs. Is this the laser printing?

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

Thanks MT. Those sneaky devils! And the reverse is blank? Zut alors ! The scarves that I design, if they are not silk-screened, I back them with plain or patterned silk.
I guess that should make the older scarves more valuable.
I wondered how they could put out so many more scarves, some with seemingly endless colors.

I am also wondering: If H can laser print La Cite Cavaliere, why does it take so long to print off a few zillion and get CW13 to me?
must be those rolled & sewn edges.

 

[marietouchet]

I thought the printing on the spring scarf with the giant butterfly was particularly weird looking. I know people like the design but the surface looked one-dimensional and cheap to me. Same with the reissue of Les Amoureux. They don't have the complexity and depth of older H designs. Is this the laser printing?

I have seen neither IRL and most of my thoughts on digital printing are based on the ones that I own and can obsess over for extended periods, I never notice details in the store, am distracted by the SA, the customers, the displays
I did notice on butterfly photos that the color blobs (for lack of a better word) are not crisply defined, the edges are ragged. I just assumed it was my being fussy, so I never shared my observation , Yes it does look 1D which could be fewer colors, or lack of a finesse screen (to define the color blob areas rather like lead defines regions of stained glass).
It would be interesting to know what the reverse looks like
And Nouveaux Amoureux, well, I disdain that one, the original design had so much French soul and history, all of which is lost in the new one, so, I turned my nose up at the Pierre Marie version and refuse to discuss it LOL
But also, there is a new trend in HS - to make lines wiggly , not straight and crisp. Like in Jeu des Omnibus Remix - the lines are not crisp intentionally. Pagni has never (?) drawn a straight line for H, I think

 

[Jbizzybeetle]

Since we talked earlier about different materials photographing so differently, I share my recent grail acquisition: Caducee Rock CS100.
It photographs with iphone front camera so very VERY differently from its rich darkness IRL!
1st photo: bathroom light
2d photo: rear flash went off towards mirror and bounced back

 

[momasaurus]

I have seen neither IRL and most of my thoughts on digital printing are based on the ones that I own and can obsess over for extended periods, I never notice details in the store, am distracted by the SA, the customers, the displays
I did notice on butterfly photos that the color blobs (for lack of a better word) are not crisply defined, the edges are ragged. I just assumed it was my being fussy, so I never shared my observation , Yes it does look 1D which could be fewer colors, or lack of a finesse screen (to define the color blob areas rather like lead defines regions of stained glass).
It would be interesting to know what the reverse looks like
And Nouveaux Amoureux, well, I disdain that one, the original design had so much French soul and history, all of which is lost in the new one, so, I turned my nose up at the Pierre Marie version and refuse to discuss it LOL
But also, there is a new trend in HS - to make lines wiggly , not straight and crisp. Like in Jeu des Omnibus Remix - the lines are not crisp intentionally. Pagni has never (?) drawn a straight line for H, I think

Yes, and I'm looking for an original Amoureux, in case anyone comes across one.....gavroche is fine!

 

[marietouchet]

Been thinking about the question of H ever stating unambiguously that they do digital/inkjet/laser etc printing - ie anything other than screening .. No, have still never seen anything H published .. the closest that I have got is
1. The marble scarves - each one is different - those all indubitably not screened , no question (t least to me) , yet, the official H story has no mention of the L, D or I words (laser, digital or inkjet) but goes on about the exception (si8c) technique
2. A blog - one of many - did an overview of a Lyon visit - and explicitly stated there was a "laser" machine in the corner that the tour participants were not allowed to photograph as they were ushered to the screen machines
But., looking at ESPRIT DE LA FORET and wondering why it looks so 1D, I think it is a harmonic convergence of issues:
- it is a detail scarf (blow up / zoom), they never have much texture (3D effect) . A third of the scarf is the middle detail (pink) which is mostly not shaded - just polka dots = flat
- the collection palette was partially in subdued (blah) shades eg a watered down gold not a bright gold. Those subtle shades are less eye grabbing.. But, yes there were some super nova (bright) cws . There is a subtle cwe below sand a bright one
- The wings are not textured but there are feathers (bottom left) - I randomly selected the H photo of a super bright cw - and you can see the feathers are badly done - the white and yellow feathers just dont look 3D despite the bright cw. The feathers dont pop on the blue cw either
Shirley gets a lot of texture (3D effect) from her furs and feathers and it did not work in this case, IMHO.
I think ESPRIT is screened but not one of Shirley's best works.
Photos from H.com

 

[momasaurus]

Been thinking about the question of H ever stating unambiguously that they do digital/inkjet/laser etc printing - ie anything other than screening .. No, have still never seen anything H published .. the closest that I have got is
1. The marble scarves - each one is different - those all indubitably not screened , no question (t least to me) , yet, the official H story has no mention of the L, D or I words (laser, digital or inkjet) but goes on about the exception (si8c) technique
2. A blog - one of many - did an overview of a Lyon visit - and explicitly stated there was a "laser" machine in the corner that the tour participants were not allowed to photograph as they were ushered to the screen machines
But., looking at ESPRIT DE LA FORET and wondering why it looks so 1D, I think it is a harmonic convergence of issues:
- it is a detail scarf (blow up / zoom), they never have much texture (3D effect) . A third of the scarf is the middle detail (pink) which is mostly not shaded - just polka dots = flat
- the collection palette was partially in subdued (blah) shades eg a watered down gold not a bright gold. Those subtle shades are less eye grabbing.. But, yes there were some super nova (bright) cws . There is a subtle cwe below sand a bright one
- The wings are not textured but there are feathers (bottom left) - I randomly selected the H photo of a super bright cw - and you can see the feathers are badly done - the white and yellow feathers just dont look 3D despite the bright cw. The feathers dont pop on the blue cw either
Shirley gets a lot of texture (3D effect) from her furs and feathers and it did not work in this case, IMHO.
I think ESPRIT is screened but not one of Shirley's best works.
Photos from H.com

Interesting! Thank you so much for all this info. So this is silk screened, but not well done. Well, there goes my theory, LOL!
I love this thread. Also interesting that H is pretending (by keeping silent) that everything is still being screened.

 

[marietouchet]

Interesting! Thank you so much for all this info. So this is silk screened, but not well done. Well, there goes my theory, LOL!
I love this thread. Also interesting that H is pretending (by keeping silent) that everything is still being screened.

I think the most concrete evidence of the silence is the manufacturing location since law now requires them to put the alternate locations on the web site and on the scarf - we know for certain they dont all come from Lyon
And as to the "dull" colors in the recent palettes (see blue ESPRIT), well, they are everywhere, PANTONE has seen to that , a recent purchase ie a tshirt from the local museum is in the exact "dull" blue colors , I match !

 

[DoraSilky]

I found this article on a visit to the Lyon printing facility, which is interesting. Use of digital pens on digital screens, does that explain some of the observations of less 3D ness?
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/03/hermes-silk-printing-lyon-factory-visit.html

 

[DoraSilky]

the link within the above feature takes you to the 'Holding Textile Hermes' website where it lists the services the group offers ie digital printing - guess that means many other high end fashion houses use these facilities?? http://www.holding-textile-hermes.com/en/our-expertise/printing

 

[marietouchet]

I found this article on a visit to the Lyon printing facility, which is interesting. Use of digital pens on digital screens, does that explain some of the observations of less 3D ness?
https://www.permanentstyle.com/2019/03/hermes-silk-printing-lyon-factory-visit.html

Great article , the digital pens have an effect but not so much, after all it is still screened - five years ago some of the colorists were still coloring by hand
But, it does go to resolution - how tee tiny a detail can be in one color or other
I bet the colorists now start from a digitized version of the original art anyway

 

[marietouchet]

Great article , the digital pens have an effect but not so much, after all it is still screened - five years ago some of the colorists were still coloring by hand
But, it does go to resolution - how tee tiny a detail can be in one color or other
I bet the colorists now start from a digitized version of the original art anyway

The Lyon factories have always been like that - they were originally not owned (no vertical integration) by H and did work for all sorts of houses, couture and what not
Taking in work is possibly a way to immunize against market taste changes. The mens tie market is drying up and H is trying to sell more scarves to men - in lieu of ties - but if that does not work all the Lyon tie makers will have work. That is why there have been so many mens silk pop ups in recent years

 

[marietouchet]

Interesting! Thank you so much for all this info. So this is silk screened, but not well done. Well, there goes my theory, LOL!
I love this thread. Also interesting that H is pretending (by keeping silent) that everything is still being screened.

I got to thinking about A Shirley designs, in the last 10 or so years she has done several styles of designs

1. Uber detailed womens designs eg Canadian WIld, Under Waves, English garden those are all about girly, colors and details - the cute little bunny in the corner. They are not about texture. They are something of a replacement for the Henry designs since CH seems to be no more. There are 3 or 4 of these designs.
2. She has done several zoom/detail scarves for the mens collections - ARGHH, AWOO - dino, wolf, bear. Those are about scales, feathers, fur, birch trees. Very textured in part because the mens palette is so limited - black, gray blue, blue gray, brown, gray brown etc. Those are not girly or about color. There are 3 or 4 of these...
3. Hybrid scarves for womens collection - JAGUAR, ZEBRA, TYGER- some prominent fur and feathers, but also a lot of flowers. These have texture, and girly colored flowers
4. I would put ESPRIT in its own category - a zoom design with only the tiniest lip service to fur and feathers so not girly, colorful or textured a priori.

Was thinking of the differences between AS feathers and those of Linares, and AS fur and those of Linares and Dallet - major differences .