CITES, travel and exotics

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#91
It is the responsability of the purchaser to collect all required documentation when they want to legally import an exoticfrom the country they bought it, into their country of residence.

In the case of an auction house, the purchaser should ask the auction house to provide the Cites permit.
 
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#93
perlerare said:
What you get in that case, is a copy of the Cites permit of importation by Hermes of the skins if you buy the bag in France, or in any EU country, or the Cites permit of importation of the bag, if you buy the bag in any other country.

This states the Cites registration number of the lot of skins wich your bag was made from, or of the bag when it was imported locally by Hermes in the country where you bought it.

You can have this with you when you travel, it shoes that the bag was made of skins actually registered by the french Ctes Buro, or the bag itself was actually registered by your local Cites buro.

It makes a good patch for your peace of mind, I agree. But you do not NEED it in regard to the CITES itself. I agree it could make things easier f you have to discuss your bag with an ignorant custom agent.



One does not have to prove such a thing. One only has to prove that the bag they carry has followed the legal route re/Cites, aka was tracked by CITES organisation, from the skins it was made from to the final destination country where final owner lives (You). This is all what Cites is about : Tracking every single specimen that belongs,(dead or alive) to their list, that is actually involved in any kind of international transaction.

Again, travelling with your bag does not make you involved in any transaction.

But again, I agree that one may feel safier with a piece of paper they can show to a custom agent if needed.
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Yes, I'm fully aware of what it is that I am receiving with that piece of paper. :smile1:

Also, my response about proving that endangered animals part was based on someone ELSE saying that you just prove to them that your bag isn't on the endangered list. I wasn't saying that it is necessary to do that.


I guess we all have different experiences with what our SA's tell us. I just prefer to go by what I was told by the people I deal with at Hermes. But I still don't think that anyone can definitively say that I don't NEED them when I travel. And I don't think the customs agents are necessarily ignorant. They are, in most cases, simply doing their jobs. :)
 
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#94
I forgot to add that an SA in the Beverly Hills store even told me that I am supposed to call ahead to the country to which I am traveling and clear it with them beforehand. And this information was a recent as a few weeks ago.
 
#95
Interesting what SAs around the world say then. Just a week ago the SM in Paris assured me personally that CITES is not issued and explained it's function, when I wanted to have them ship to me overseas. I'm thinking of what someone said- a lot of us on this forum know a lot more than some SAs! :D
 
#96
TammyD said:
Interesting what SAs around the world say then. Just a week ago the SM in Paris assured me personally that CITES is not issued and explained it's function, when I wanted to have them ship to me overseas. I'm thinking of what someone said- a lot of us on this forum know a lot more than some SAs! :D
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It is interesting. But I think in an instance like that, I would still ask for one. And I don't think the SA's in the US are just saying that off the cuff.

Sorry, but I stand by what I said before. If you get an exotic, you should have the CITES with you when you travel overseas. Carrying it isn't significantly difficult so why not? :shrugs: I would hate to see someone else suffer some of the horror stories the SA's have told me. Dreadful stuff.
 
#97
I'll take two said:
With regard to vintage bags does that mean auction houses/antique centres should not sell without cites or is it the responsibility of the purchaser?
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I know Kerry taylor auctions, withdrew some vintage crocodile H bags from one sale until they could get some cities certificates , but I really think that may be due to the fact that they were a commercial auction house selling them. which is different to a private individual carrying a personal item with them. and they were offering them outside of the EU.

Artcurial had no problem selling me crocodile and I will just keep there receipt with me if I travel with it.
 
#98
nathansgirl1908 said:
Yes, I'm fully aware of what it is that I am receiving with that piece of paper. :smile1:

Also, my response about proving that endangered animals part was based on someone ELSE saying that you just prove to them that your bag isn't on the endangered list. I wasn't saying that it is necessary to do that.


I guess we all have different experiences with what our SA's tell us. I just prefer to go by what I was told by the people I deal with at Hermes. But I still don't think that anyone can definitively say that I don't NEED them when I travel. And I don't think the customs agents are necessarily ignorant. They are, in most cases, simply doing their jobs. :)
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No worries.;)
My comments are general comments , not a discussion with or agaisnt you of course. And I do appreciate your inputs as well as other member's ones. I hope my comments will help other members. And I am glad this thread gave me an opportunity to clarify some points that keep beeing raised.

The informations I have released here are from my exhaustive experience with travelling with exotic bags as well as legally importing Cites documented H items in my country of residence as well as exporting exotics from my country to various places worldwide.

I also have contact with the Cites buro of my country as I sometimes have to ask for permits of exportation for used bags I sell online.
And I know what it takes to deal with an ignorant custom agent in a remote country.
Like this : "That country can't issue a Cites permit for a Crocodile bag as there are no crocodiles living there." How does that sound ? Hilarious...but when you have to get the vintage Porosus Kelly released by customs and delivered by Fedex to your buyer, you better know exactly how to kindkly drive the agent out of their ignorance.....This is for custom agents who deal with individual parcels.

Same goes for custom agents who mainly deal with tourist traffic. They seldom deal with Cites related items, so they are not well familiar with the procedures, and they might be affraid to mistake. They might be very picky and would look for anything that would cover them, including a Cites paper that is not actually needed. But it highly depends on the country. It happend once to me that the custom agent definitely ignored the Cites Permit I showed him. In that case, better do like nothing happened and put the paper away....

I would not say the same thing about commercial custom agents. They know exactly their Cites (probably because they deal with masive quantities of exotics everyday)....

Again, it is important to know how the country one is travelling to is considering the specie one's bag is made of. I think that is the main thing to know to decide if one will take or not that bag on that trip.
 
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#99
perlerare said:
No worries.;)
My comments are general comments , not a discussion with or agaisnt you of course. And I do appreciate your inputs as well as other member's ones. I hope my comments will help other members. And I am glad this thread gave me an opportunity to clarify some points that keep beeing raised.

The informations I have released here are from my exhaustive experience with travelling with exotic bags as well as legally importing Cites documented H items in my country of residence as well as exporting exotics from my country to various places worldwide.

I also have contact with the Cites buro of my country as I sometimes have to ask for permits of exportation for used bags I sell online.
And I know what it takes to deal with an ignorant custom agent in a remote country.
Like this : "That country can't issue a Cites permit for a Crocodile bag as there are no crocodiles living there." How does that sound ? Hilarious...but when you have to get the vintage Porosus Kelly released by customs and delivered by Fedex to your buyer, you better know exactly how to kindkly drive the agent out of their ignorance.....This is for custom agents who deal with individual parcels.

Same goes for custom agents who mainly deal with tourist traffic. They seldom deal with Cites related items, so they are not well familiar with the procedures, and they might be affraid to mistake. They might be very picky and would look for anything that would cover them, including a Cites paper that is not actually needed. But it highly depends on the country. It happend once to me that the custom agent definitely ignored the Cites Permit I showed him. In that case, better do like nothing happened and put the paper away....

I would not say the same thing about commercial custom agents. They know exactly their Cites (probably because they deal with masive quantities of exotics everyday)....

Again, it is important to know how the country one is travelling to is considering the specie one's bag is made of. I think that is the main thing to know to decide if one will take or not that bag on that trip.
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That's nice. But perhaps some of the reason you are able to travel with the ease that you state is because you have already make certain connections with customs in the areas in which you travel. Things may not necessarily be that simple for someone else under less favorable circumstances. :smile1:
 
#100
Put it all very, very simply ... it depends on which country you are in.

From my personal experience, a CITES is required for export out of the US. And it takes forever to clear customs! And I am with Perlerare and TammyD. Customs in any country may still ask for it, even if it's technically not needed. (just to make sure they don't make any mistakes)

And I am with nathansgirl's approach, to ask for one, just in case you come face to face with an ignorant Customs officer and hold you back!

I ask for a CITES whenever I get an exotic bag. One day I may relocate to another country that may demand for clarification on the species of my exotics, and I don't need surprises springing out at me. (the CITES would actually be outdated, but it would be easier to use the outdated one to ask for a new one)
 
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#101
mrssparkles said:
Put it all very, very simply ... it depends on which country you are in.

From my personal experience, a CITES is required for export out of the US. And it takes forever to clear customs! And I am with Perlerare and TammyD. Customs in any country may still ask for it, even if it's technically not needed. (just to make sure they don't make any mistakes)

And I am with nathansgirl's approach, to ask for one, just in case you come face to face with an ignorant Customs officer and hold you back!

I ask for a CITES whenever I get an exotic bag. One day I may relocate to another country that may demand for clarification on the species of my exotics, and I don't need surprises springing out at me. (the CITES would actually be outdated, but it would be easier to use the outdated one to ask for a new one)
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:yes:

As for the part about it taking forever to go through customs, I can only imagine. Going through customs is aggravating enough as it is. That's why I just don't even take my exotics with me. lol
 
#104
One further comment I would like to say on this matter is that I am surprised that the cites documents that Hermes (and others) issue do not directly link the item to the certificate.
So in actual fact if you had a cites for one bag you could use it for another of the same species.
Bearing they are endangered you would think customs would want more than a couple of photo copied pieces of paper with no real method of ID.
As an example I was worried about getting cites mixed up and had to write on the back of mine which was which.
There would have been nothing to stop me from using the cites from a wallet for a much larger handbag.
Unless of course someone knows different and there is in actual fact a hidden link on form specific to item?:smile1:
 
#105
I would like to know, for those of you who had bought your croc bag from the H shop, did you get a Cites certificate with the purchase? I bought mine from a reseller and it had just occurred to me that I did not get the Cites cert from them. Is it possible to apply for a replacement cert?
 
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