In theory you do. They probably would not enforce it for sandals or bracelets, but the law says you do need a permit. If you get stopped with a person that acts by the book, if your sandals are lizard, alligator or croc, you should have import/export permits. If not they can be confiscated and destroyed. Ostrich by Hermes is farmed so not subject to CITES. If you would like, I can send you all the info on obtaining a permit for export from the US.
CITES, travel and exotics
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Unfortunately that is not correct regarding CITES. That piece of paper serves no purpose without a permit after it leaves the store, unless your CITES is from the EU and you are only traveling there.l spent 5 hours dealing with this today, spoke with 3 people at US wildlife and more people in two other countries. In the US you need to file Form 3-200-27, that is for export of wildlife removed from the wild, send the CITES plus receipt, photos of the bag and pay a fee. At the same time you must request an import permit from the destination country. Once you get that, you submit that to US wildlife and only then they will review your app. You must have the import permit bf the export permit is approved. It takes around 60 days. Both permits are valid for a single use and are nominal and not transferable. It is a monumental hassle, and i think this is material information to disclose so the person can make an informed decision about a bag I didn’t even ask for. Hence the SA only mentioning the permit when he was handling me the receipt was not ok. The manager didn’t know how to request the permit either. Thank you so much for the advice, you are absolutely right, outside the US works much better for me. ❤️
CITES has no validity. Import and export permits after you request them are valid from 6 months to one year only for single use. My friend had all her CITES checked in Germany a few months ago, but it was ok bc she bought all her exotics in Europe. They made her show them for shoes, bracelets, charms, bags.
@Angiebbb have you checked out this thread dedicated to discussing CITES Hermes . It could be helpful
CITES, travel and exotics
A couple of questions I know I can rely on our members to answer for me... If I buy an ostrich birkin in the UK, will I automatically be given a cites certificate or do I need to ask for it? Also if I travel abroad with the bag (e.g. USA/Asia) do I need to take it with me? TIA
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I'm just going to cut and paste this here.
§ 14.15 Personal baggage and household effects.
(a) Any person may import into or export from the United States at any Customs port wildlife products or manufactured articles that are not intended for commercial use and are used as clothing or contained in accompanying personal baggage. However, this exception to the designated port requirement does not apply to any raw or dressed fur; raw, salted, or crusted hide or skin; game trophy; or to wildlife requiring a permit pursuant to part 16, 17, 18, 21, or 23 of this subchapter B.(b) Wildlife products or manufactured articles, including mounted game trophies or tanned hides, which are not intended for sale and are part of a shipment of the household effects of persons moving their residence to or from the United States may be imported or exported at any Customs port of entry. However, this exception to the designated port requirement does not apply to any raw fur; raw, salted, or crusted hide or skin; or to wildlife requiring a permit pursuant to part 16, 17, 18, 21, or 23 of this subchapter B.
^^^^ The above allows personal effects to be moved in and out of the United States without a permit. Parts 16-21 referenced are things like injurious/invasive species and marine mammals. Part 23 is CITES which is here. Appendix II species are not considered endangered. Appendix I is a different story. The relevant piece of CITES (Part 23 as referenced) for Hermès croc and gator and the vast majority of exotics used for bags and apparel:
Personal effects. You do not need a CITES document to import, export, or re-export any legally acquired specimen of a CITES species to or from the United States if all of the following conditions are met:
(1) No live wildlife or plant (including eggs or non-exempt seeds) is included.
(2) No specimen from an Appendix-I species is included, except for certain worked African elephant ivory as provided in paragraph (f) of this section.
(3) The specimen and quantity of specimens are reasonably necessary or appropriate for the nature of your trip or stay and, if the type of specimen is one listed in paragraph (c)(3) of this section, the quantity does not exceed the quantity given in the table.
(4) You own and possess the specimen for personal use, including any specimen intended as a personal gift.
(5) You are either wearing the specimen as clothing or an accessory or taking it as part of your personal baggage, which is being carried by you or checked as baggage on the same plane, boat, vehicle, or train as you.
(6) The specimen was not mailed or shipped separately.
(e) Household effects. You do not need a CITES document to import, export, or re-export any legally acquired specimen of a CITES species that is part of a shipment of your household effects when moving your residence to or from the United States, if all of the following conditions are met:
(1) The provisions of paragraphs (d)(1) through (3) of this section are met.
(2) You own the specimen and are moving it for personal use.
(3) You import or export your household effects within 1 year of changing your residence from one country to another.
(4) The shipment, or shipments if you cannot move all of your household effects at one time, contains only specimens purchased, inherited, or otherwise acquired before you changed your residence.
Thanks for this.
So in summary , no permit needed for exotic handbags or clothing pieces we own and are carrying with us on travel.
However that is the U.S. policy, do other countries require a permit or a CITES certificate alone is good enough? If application for a permit is required for international travel with exotics (beyond just bringing the CITES doc), that may completely change my outlook on purchasing exotics!
Also I thought cite certificates don’t “expire” but mine seems to have a valid date only until XX date (which is a few months from now..) . It was provided directly from boutique at time of purchase.
The key is you need both countries to have the personal use exemption, which luckily for a lot of countries I travel to is the case. However there are countries with stricter policies in which case you would need permits for personal effects, and in fact most countries will remind you to check the other country in question when you look at their policies (some explicitly word it in ways that say “we have exemption as long as the other country in question also does”). I know exemptions are in place for some countries I’ve travelled to in the EU and Asia; the ones I know that doesn’t seem to have a personal use exemption off the top of my head (didn’t double check if anything had changed so don’t trust these - definitely research yourself if you are actually traveling to be safe) are China (mainland. Hong Kong on the other hand does have exemption) and New Zealand (which I actually first learned while researching Australia’s policies - the Australia dept website on their policies m actually had a list that was like “these countries won’t have exemptions so be careful”). I’m sure there can be others. So the point is to always research both /all of the countries in your trip.
Also a lot of them exempt crocodile up to 4 pieces (QF already quoted the official language - it’s the “quantity does not exceed the quantity given in the table” and the table will say 4 for croc pieces), so if you are moving 5 pieces at the same time you do not qualify for the exemption.
Also it’s always important to remember often there are two things: there’s the CITES enforcement party (in the US that’s Fish and Wildlife) and there’s customs declarations (at customs). You will sometimes see countries have the CITES handling department gave exemptions that you don’t need anything to for personal use - but you still need to declare at customs and do what customs say you must do (sometimes this means proving that these are your actual personal use items so you should be prepared to have original receipts, photos/proof that they have been purchased way in the past etc. whereas if you are traveling with all the original packaging it will raise eyebrows).
I do think it’s always more complicated when it’s exotics; but it is definitely doable. When unsure, err on the side of caution just for your own peace of mind.
ETA: the personal use exemption at least in the countries I’ve personally experienced almost always only apply to Appendix II species - which includes the croc / gator H uses - but just in case someone is reading this as more general, definitely first check if your bag’s species is II or I, if it’s Appendix I it will be much stricter
CITES, travel and exotics
I don't think it works this way. I just make copies of the original CITIES, which I then carry with me when I travel. I was advised by the SA on this. And there is an validity of the CITES stated on the certificate as well. Better double check with the customs as carrying in and out of the...
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That’s so much. Clearest response I’ve seen to date
will certainly look up the countries. Whew that in general the exemptions are there for most countries. This would completely put me off more exotics…. Now I can move on with my life as is 😂Do you know for countries with exemptions, are CITES required at all? I’ll always have it in the bag but given there’s a validity end date…not sure if I need to get it renewed or something
And will be ready for customs with receipts/photos as well!
That’s so much. Clearest response I’ve seen to date
Do you know for countries with exemptions, are CITES required at all? I’ll always have it in the bag but given there’s a validity end date…not sure if I need to get it renewed or something
And will be ready for customs with receipts/photos as well!
Technically for the US for example the exemption is the at you don’t even need a CITES (for personal effects as mentioned above) but I always make sure to carry mine! Doesn’t hurt to have more documentation just in case. And there are countries that will be asking for a CITES even though they exempt the export/import permit. The validity at least for my personal experience does not matter; that’s the validity for the CITES that Hermes had (when they were importing / exporting / re-exporting the bag for commercial purposes which is not personal effects like it is now for you and me).
THANK YOU. This is exactly right. The US is relatively easy to go in and out, even without a CITES; it is important to know the policies in the countries you are entering.The key is you need both countries to have the personal use exemption, which luckily for a lot of countries I travel to is the case. However there are countries with stricter policies in which case you would need permits for personal effects, and in fact most countries will remind you to check the other country in question when you look at their policies (some explicitly word it in ways that say “we have exemption as long as the other country in question also does”). I know exemptions are in place for some countries I’ve travelled to in the EU and Asia; the ones I know that doesn’t seem to have a personal use exemption off the top of my head (didn’t double check if anything had changed so don’t trust these - definitely research yourself if you are actually traveling to be safe) are China (mainland. Hong Kong on the other hand does have exemption) and New Zealand (which I actually first learned while researching Australia’s policies - the Australia dept website on their policies m actually had a list that was like “these countries won’t have exemptions so be careful”). I’m sure there can be others. So the point is to always research both /all of the countries in your trip.
Also a lot of them exempt crocodile up to 4 pieces (QF already quoted the official language - it’s the “quantity does not exceed the quantity given in the table” and the table will say 4 for croc pieces), so if you are moving 5 pieces at the same time you do not qualify for the exemption.
Also it’s always important to remember often there are two things: there’s the CITES enforcement party (in the US that’s Fish and Wildlife) and there’s customs declarations (at customs). You will sometimes see countries have the CITES handling department gave exemptions that you don’t need anything to for personal use - but you still need to declare at customs and do what customs say you must do (sometimes this means proving that these are your actual personal use items so you should be prepared to have original receipts, photos/proof that they have been purchased way in the past etc. whereas if you are traveling with all the original packaging it will raise eyebrows).
I do think it’s always more complicated when it’s exotics; but it is definitely doable. When unsure, err on the side of caution just for your own peace of mind.
ETA: the personal use exemption at least in the countries I’ve personally experienced almost always only apply to Appendix II species - which includes the croc / gator H uses - but just in case someone is reading this as more general, definitely first check if your bag’s species is II or I, if it’s Appendix I it will be much stricter
Also linking this post from helpful member earlier in this thread because it aligns a lot with what my experience is and I think is super informative to read if you are new and haven’t seen it!CITES, travel and exotics
I don't think it works this way. I just make copies of the original CITIES, which I then carry with me when I travel. I was advised by the SA on this. And there is an validity of the CITES stated on the certificate as well. Better double check with the customs as carrying in and out of the...
That’s so much. Clearest response I’ve seen to date
Do you know for countries with exemptions, are CITES required at all? I’ll always have it in the bag but given there’s a validity end date…not sure if I need to get it renewed or something
And will be ready for customs with receipts/photos as well!
I carry my CITES if I have one AND I actually carry a printout of the personal effects exemption language just in case I run into someone overeager/underinformed at customs. This is probably overkill, but especially if I don't have a CITES it puts my mind at ease. I also keep a copy of the receipt for the bag. (I don't bother with all this for SLGs.)
FWIW, I have gone back and forth between the US and France many times with a large croc bag and never been even asked for any documentation - even if I am literally at CBP declaring purchases! But of course one should never count on this.
One thing I just remembered so just to add: sometimes the website of the country’s department will only explain their policies in their native language (in my case I’m looking at your Japan, they have English for their METI website - which is the department that deals with this - but the actual page / chart that shows their policy on personal effects? Japanese only) so it can be hard to be informed if you don’t speak the native language and is just visiting as a tourist. I’ve only travelled with my exotics between countries that I feel very comfortable that I know the policies for sure. If there’s uncertainty / lack of information, I just skip the exotics bag - one less thing to worry about is one less to worry about!
No actually this sounds like a very good idea, I’m going to do this the next time too!!
No actually this sounds like a very good idea, I’m going to do this the next time too!!
Here’s a list of exemptions by country. Unfortunately it’s missing most of the world 🤣 Surprised they didn’t put the UK on there (they really do get shortchanged since leaving the EU!)
Nice find although I think this might be specifically about between New Zealand and the other countries (not sure why it’s on the official cites website - maybe they host some info for the participating counties).
UK has personal effects exemptions! As usual it’s the limit of 4 per person (for croc): https://www.gov.uk/guidance/cites-imports-and-exports
Thank you so much for this. I asked US wildlife yesterday about this personal effects provision exemption and they said that once you acquire a bag or another product from Hermes for example and the product was manufactured outside the US (CITES was not issued in the US), the CITES you have just covers the transit from France to the US and that CITES is only attached and valid for the French permit to the US. That said, your CITES is not valid any longer once the bag enters the US. It is just valid to cross state lines in the US. The CITES is valid for you to request a new permit to leave the US, but you need that permit. Each new CITES/permit cancels the prior one. The gentleman explained: the skin is from Malaysia. From Malaysia to France there was a permit/CITES to France, issued by Malaysia. Product was manufactured in France, so the CITES/permit from Malaysia was used to obtain an export license from France and an import license to the US. What you receive with the Hermes product is a copy of the CITES/permit in French (export license) which is a single use permit so the product can leave France and arrive in the US. Once it arrives in the US, there is no more permit/CITES. That paper is only a document that allows you to apply for an export license from the US in case you need to leave the country. Let’s suppose you are going to Chile next. If you don’t apply for a permit to leave the US and an import permit in Chile, once you arrive in Chile the officer will only see your import allowed into the US from France. You are not authorized to carry the bag to Chile, hence according to Chilean law they would need to confiscate it. However, if you apply for an export permit from the US and import permit from Chile, the US would issue the export permit/CITES for the bag after receiving the import permit from Chile, so the new permit/CITES you would have for the bag would be in English and it would show the bag’s path until there. It is quite complicated. I will call again on Monday and report back, but I spent a couple of hours on the phone with 3 different people from US wildlife from the permit’s office on this.
I believe the crux of your issue is that you are not exporting nor importing anything. Those are words specifically concerning bringing in goods for a commercial reason, ie to sell.