CITES, travel and exotics

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I don't think it works this way. I just make copies of the original CITIES, which I then carry with me when I travel.

I was advised by the SA on this. And there is an validity of the CITES stated on the certificate as well. Better double check with the customs as carrying in and out of the country is still considered as exporting and importing.

The period of validity of permits should be specified in the legislation (export and re-export permits are valid for import purposes only if presented within six months of issue at the most; the validity of import permits should not exceed twelve months).

Else just keep the exotics in the country, and all will be well.
 
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Do i need a CITES if i already purchased an exotic skin from the US but plan to travel to Japan and leaving Japan?
To be on the safe side, you need to have the CITES whenever you cross an international border, as it considered importing/exporting. Otherwise, you could risk confiscation of the item, with very little chance of getting it back.

To quote a recent reply:
The intended use of the bag, personal or otherwise, is not relevant.
The skin is from an animal now covered by CITES and that functions at the very basic level of
movement from one country to another, regardless of intended use.

Every time you cross a border, even returning to US, you will be effectively importing an item manufactured from an endangered species. Whether, because of its age, it might be considered to be outside the CITES remit is almost academic. Do you want to explain your case in English, French, German, Italian when you go from country to country?
 
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My experience in making copies of my CITES (and receipts) are based on the advice of my store director, as well as research/analysis of the CITES text and information provided at national/regional levels (Australia, Japan, and the EU). You may want to do the same as you may be interested to bring your exotic items to different countries. While CITES is an international law, the enforcement is at national level, and this may be stricter than what is provided for in CITES (see my later comment on China and New Zealand).

Some key points that I want to highlight (sorry for this long post):

All my exotic-related purchases have been in the crocodile/alligator family – which has been included in Appendix II of the CITES (this is also mentioned in the certificates/permits provided by the stores, both in France and my home country). You may want to check the categories for other exotics such as lizards as these could be in other Appendices (I or III) – if so, different rules may apply. The lists/Appendices are regularly updated.

Relevant provisions in CITIES should be Article II: Fundamental Principles; Article IV: Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species included in Appendix II; Article VI: Permits and Certificates; Article VII: Exemptions and Other Special Provisions Relating to Trade (https://cites.org/eng/disc/text.php#II). Other relevant provisions are the Control of trade in personal and household effects (https://cites.org/eng/res/13/13-07.php)

CITES and the respective national authorities differentiate the purpose of the items to be imported into the country – commercial or personal use/household effects – see relevant provisions above. Article IV: Permits and Certificates of CITES does provide period of validity for the permits and certificates (6 months) but this matters for commercial purposes only. And so, CITES provided to my home country store (original importer) indicates the validity period but that is because the item is imported for commercial purposes. The permit/certificate is only valid to the original importer. The concern would be if you purchased the item via a reseller or if you are a reseller wanting to sell the item – you may probably have to apply for a new certificate/permit – please check with your respective national authorities if you are in this category.

As for me, once I purchased the exotic item, it becomes a personal and household effect to me. Indeed, the CITES certificate provided by the Sevres Hermes Store treats me as such (there is a difference between the CITIES certificate provided in France and other countries because for France, it is the country of last re-export). However, if I decide to sell the item in the future, I will probably have to apply for a new CITES certificate/permit because then it will be a commercial transaction.

Most countries exempt import permits for exotic items that are personal effects – the countries that I know that are still quite strict are China and New Zealand (that is, you need import permits even for exotic items that are personal effects). For Australia, I do not have to apply for an import permit when I bring my alligator/croc H bags into the country (my usual place of residence is in Asia but I also have home in Australia) – but I bring with me copies of the CITIES certificates/permits and receipts (to show that I purchased the items directly from the stores in France and my home country). Australia provides clear guidance, see: https://www.dcceew.gov.au/environment/wildlife-trade/do-i-need-permit

Also, most countries based any quotas on the provisions in CITES – e.g. for crocodile/alligator items, tourists are restricted to bring in only 4 items. As an example, I provide the link to the Japanese national authority in charge of enforcing CITES: https://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/external_economy/CITES/exemptions.html

I hope my long explanation here helps – I am not a CITES expert, just someone who has done international trade law and negotiations before! Most important, please check with the relevant national authorities for your ease of mind in bringing your exotic babies when you travel. The CITES website is very useful in providing details of these authorities (dry reading but fascinating facts galore).
 
My experience in making copies of my CITES (and receipts) are based on the advice of my store director, as well as research/analysis of the CITES text and information provided at national/regional levels (Australia, Japan, and the EU). You may want to do the same as you may be interested to bring your exotic items to different countries. While CITES is an international law, the enforcement is at national level, and this may be stricter than what is provided for in CITES (see my later comment on China and New Zealand).

Some key points that I want to highlight (sorry for this long post):

All my exotic-related purchases have been in the crocodile/alligator family – which has been included in Appendix II of the CITES (this is also mentioned in the certificates/permits provided by the stores, both in France and my home country). You may want to check the categories for other exotics such as lizards as these could be in other Appendices (I or III) – if so, different rules may apply. The lists/Appendices are regularly updated.

Relevant provisions in CITIES should be Article II: Fundamental Principles; Article IV: Regulation of Trade in Specimens of Species included in Appendix II; Article VI: Permits and Certificates; Article VII: Exemptions and Other Special Provisions Relating to Trade (https://cites.org/eng/disc/text.php#II). Other relevant provisions are the Control of trade in personal and household effects (https://cites.org/eng/res/13/13-07.php)

CITES and the respective national authorities differentiate the purpose of the items to be imported into the country – commercial or personal use/household effects – see relevant provisions above. Article IV: Permits and Certificates of CITES does provide period of validity for the permits and certificates (6 months) but this matters for commercial purposes only. And so, CITES provided to my home country store (original importer) indicates the validity period but that is because the item is imported for commercial purposes. The permit/certificate is only valid to the original importer. The concern would be if you purchased the item via a reseller or if you are a reseller wanting to sell the item – you may probably have to apply for a new certificate/permit – please check with your respective national authorities if you are in this category.

As for me, once I purchased the exotic item, it becomes a personal and household effect to me. Indeed, the CITES certificate provided by the Sevres Hermes Store treats me as such (there is a difference between the CITIES certificate provided in France and other countries because for France, it is the country of last re-export). However, if I decide to sell the item in the future, I will probably have to apply for a new CITES certificate/permit because then it will be a commercial transaction.

Most countries exempt import permits for exotic items that are personal effects – the countries that I know that are still quite strict are China and New Zealand (that is, you need import permits even for exotic items that are personal effects). For Australia, I do not have to apply for an import permit when I bring my alligator/croc H bags into the country (my usual place of residence is in Asia but I also have home in Australia) – but I bring with me copies of the CITIES certificates/permits and receipts (to show that I purchased the items directly from the stores in France and my home country). Australia provides clear guidance, see: https://www.dcceew.gov.au/environment/wildlife-trade/do-i-need-permit

Also, most countries based any quotas on the provisions in CITES – e.g. for crocodile/alligator items, tourists are restricted to bring in only 4 items. As an example, I provide the link to the Japanese national authority in charge of enforcing CITES: https://www.meti.go.jp/english/policy/external_economy/CITES/exemptions.html

I hope my long explanation here helps – I am not a CITES expert, just someone who has done international trade law and negotiations before! Most important, please check with the relevant national authorities for your ease of mind in bringing your exotic babies when you travel. The CITES website is very useful in providing details of these authorities (dry reading but fascinating facts galore).
Thank you for this information! I am looking at purchasing an exotic skin bag from Italy to be shipped in Australia. I was wondering if I will need a CITES certificate. It said in the link that I have to look if its in the appendices. The product is made out of rock snake skin. I couldn't find it in the directory. Seems its not in CITES and not native to Australia. In this case, do I still need a permit to have it shipped here or to travel with it?
 
I get the impression that Australia is one of the strictest places in the world when it comes to importing animal or vegetable products, whether covered by CITES or not.
You really ought to contact your authorities directly and get an official answer.
 
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I get the impression that Australia is one of the strictest places in the world when it comes to importing animal or vegetable products, whether covered by CITES or not.
You really ought to contact your authorities directly and get an official answer.
Yeah. It's really strict here. So I'm quite nervous haha. I've reached out to the department here and have made an account for an online permit application just in case. It says it takes 40 days at least to get approval. Holy cow.
 
Thank you for this information! I am looking at purchasing an exotic skin bag from Italy to be shipped in Australia. I was wondering if I will need a CITES certificate. It said in the link that I have to look if its in the appendices. The product is made out of rock snake skin. I couldn't find it in the directory. Seems its not in CITES and not native to Australia. In this case, do I still need a permit to have it shipped here or to travel with it?

Is it Hermes?
 
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I get the impression that Australia is one of the strictest places in the world when it comes to importing animal or vegetable products, whether covered by CITES or not.
You really ought to contact your authorities directly and get an official answer.
It is - I have been living (on and off) in Australia since 1982 and I know how strict it is! That is why I am especially careful when bringing over my croc/alligator H items over to Australia. Also, the concern with them is that it is to ensure that the source of the skin is legal/legitimate according to international law. Always have your papers in order as well.
 
Please note this is the Hermes forum.

Discussion, questions and advice concerning other brands should be in their respective forums or in the general handbags forum.
 
Ladies, help me out, please! I have sold my ostrich bolide [A] and shipped to the US knowing it doesn't need CITES. Now DHL contacted me saying I urgently need to fill this form out. Please, help me fill it. All I know is Hermes uses Struto Camelus skins for their bags - hope I'm right. Otherwise, I am afraid to fill the form not correctly. SOS❣️

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Ladies, help me out, please! I have sold my ostrich bolide [A] and shipped to the US knowing it doesn't need CITES. Now DHL contacted me saying I urgently need to fill this form out. Please, help me fill it. All I know is Hermes uses Struto Camelus skins for their bags - hope I'm right. Otherwise, I am afraid to fill the form not correctly. SOS❣️

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Classic ignorance of DHL. You shouldn‘t have to fill out ANYTHING. This entire ostrich issue is infuriating. Been wanting to buy ostrich from overseas but everyone refuses to ship because of exactly this issue. How is an Hermès customer supposed to know the exact species used, unless we are given a cites document?
 
Ladies, help me out, please! I have sold my ostrich bolide [A] and shipped to the US knowing it doesn't need CITES. Now DHL contacted me saying I urgently need to fill this form out. Please, help me fill it. All I know is Hermes uses Struto Camelus skins for their bags - hope I'm right. Otherwise, I am afraid to fill the form not correctly. SOS❣️

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All ostrich is Struthio camelus (there is ONE other ostrich species in the world, the Somalian ostrich, which is rarely used for skin). So you're good there.
Most Struthio is exempt from CITES - there are a few countries where the ostrich is included in A-1, which would be an issue, but H doesn't source from those countries. I'm sure the H annual report would tell you where the ostrich is farmed, but you can tell DHL it's a CITES-exempt species.
Why is DHL such a pain?!
 
Hiya. I bought Chanel small coco handle baby pink python in gold hardware from Singapore. It is preloved and don’t have any documents just email confirmation that I bought it. I wanna move soon to EU country. Do you know if I need any documents for python in EU? Thank you.
 
Hiya. I bought Chanel small coco handle baby pink python in gold hardware from Singapore. It is preloved and don’t have any documents just email confirmation that I bought it. I wanna move soon to EU country. Do you know if I need any documents for python in EU? Thank you.

Same as for Hermes for CITES covered species and families (except Hermes doesn't do python - not since 1926 anyways :D

Python is on the list so you will need a CITES.

Please start a thread in Chanel and ask more brand/skin specific questions over there.
 
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