Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

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#47,869
IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:
  • Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
  • Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
  • FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Listing number:
    Seller and site where listed
    Link:
    Comments:

  • FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
    Item:
    Where purchased or how obtained
    Comments:
BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.
  • Front of item
  • Back of item
  • Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
  • Made in tags (when available)
  • Measurements
  • For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
  • For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
  • If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.
Thank you and be safe!
 
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#37,006
ShariZain said:
So, as an Expert, do you or did you ever work for Coach to become that educated on their products? If not, how did you become an Expert? I did used to authenticate my bags. Out of probably 200 of them, I was wrong on 3. It happens. No one is perfect. As for this bag, had I been 100% sure of when it was made, etc, I wouldn't have felt the need to post it on this forum. I am smart enough to know when I am not 100% know sure of authenticity and/or if a bag is vintage or not, which is why I posted on here.

And I apologize if I sound like I'm being rude. I'm not. I just don't believe in sugar coating it. And I may see your reply to my post as I see it and not as it is but that last statement you made was rude and unnecessary. "Leave the authentication to the Experts?" Just because I have made a few mistakes, does not make me less educated than you, unless you were or are employees of Coach so actually received your Coach Handbag authentication directly thru them.
Click to expand...

To back up what others have already said - Coach employees receive ZERO education in recognising fakes, except for possibly the most recent styles. Even their in-house Anti-Counterfeiting "department" is only concerned with stopping the flood of counterfeits of recent styles coming into the us from places like China and the Philippines. They work with the FBI, US Customs and Homeland Security, handfuls of fake older and vintage items isn't their concern. The idea of a Coach employee whether in a store or in one of their US offices being experienced and qualified enough to spot a fake of a 20-year old style is laughable.

I have almost 15 years if experience at this site and elsewhere (BeenBurned has even more and probably 4 times the number of searchable items in her own library), and as whateve mentioned, not only have we bought fakes but we've been reporting them to various selling sites for almost as long. Add to that my tens of thousands of photos, thousands of text files, at least 50 actual catalogs plus scans of another 40 or 50, and the combined experience posted here and at other sites of members who have asked about or found other fakes. If you read this thread from the beginning or at least from the last 3 or 4 years you'll find plenty of examples of what we look for and the details we use to determine authenticity, and it's a helluva lot more complicated than straight stitching and looking like the other ones on Google, which is what all too many buyers and sellers seem to use.

This is something we do (VOLUNTARILY, BTW!) seven days a week, often 5 or 6 hours a day. We've studied the real ones and the fakes, we've kept records of stamping and production details and co-ordinated them in order to discover when and where Coach might have actually made a specific style. As we've already stated, if you don't have a solid encyclopedia of info on photos and production details you can't call yourself a qualified authenticator. And that's not arrogance on our part, it's plain and simple fact.

You say you've only found 3 fakes - but how do you KNOW? There may be a dozen or more other fakes that no one has spotted because they don't know what to look for. I'm not trying to be a smart-arse, I'm trying to explain the reality of what's actually involved. We had a regular poster here at the main Coach forum years ago who posted often about her collection including photos. She had never asked for authentications and sadly, a lot of them turned out to be fake.

I STRONGLY suggest you read and re-read the Salearea Guides posted here at tPF that I began to write back in 2011 and were posted at Ebay for years. They were recently updated and posted here at tPF and on Salearea's Facebook page after Ebay removed all member-written guides last year. You especially should read the one on "Authenticity Guides". Even if you just learn how to figure out the date a Coach was made, you're still way ahead of where you were before. Again, not arrogance, just fact.

SALEAREA COACH GUIDES AT tPF:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/salearea-guides.983575/#post-32252957
 
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#37,010
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#37,012
BDP said:
Hi ladies! Anyone care to give this a quick once over? I think it’s good and the seller was very communicative.

Item: Coach Patricia’s Legacy 9951
Listing number: 233167697371
Seller: flockingfab
Link: https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/233167697371
Comments: thanks in advance!
Click to expand...

Genuine, but technically not vintage yet since it was made in 2004 (that plant had to use the 1994 year code during 2004). It will hit the 20-year old "vintage" level in 2024
 
#37,014
Hyacinth said:
Genuine, but technically not vintage yet since it was made in 2004 (that plant had to use the 1994 year code during 2004). It will hit the 20-year old "vintage" level in 2024
Click to expand...
Thank you! It’s very hard, or so it seems, to find the 9951 with nickel hardware which is my preference. Do you happen to know if the CR plant bags in 2004 were still using good thick smooshy leather?
 
#37,015
picklejuice said:
Ah thank you!
If I may ask, Im curious about the different lighter color names. I saw some bags listed as green, grey, clay, olive, etc. and they all look to be very similar in color to me.
I realize getting info based on sellers descriptions, differently lit photos and variations in wear isn't reliable, but I'm not sure of any other good sources other than asking you all. Would something like this be better suited for the I.D. thread, even if don't own it or don't have it in my possession? Let me know and I will repost there. Not knowing the official color, and using general terms in the search bar wasn't going too well.

For example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Lega...325861?hash=item1ef6d75465:g:nNYAAOSw7xxcjAi4

https://www.tradesy.com/i/coach-leg...lay-gray-green-leather-shoulder-bag/23691687/

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coach-65th-anniversary-green-legacy-1691936478

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Lega...555487?hash=item3fc0fa18df:g:YRoAAOSwci1cwN24

https://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-Mine...305668&hash=item2618c0ee15:g:CiwAAOSwfo9a8QWE
Click to expand...
People often don't know the official colors. Legacy came in a dark green called juniper. I don't have a catalog that mentions clay but there is mention of that color on the forum. The last one isn't from the same collection so probably had a different color name. Interesting that the price tag has the color blacked out. If you are looking for clay, you might try not putting the color in the search bar on ebay, but clicking on all the colors that it might be described as in the color selection, including unspecified. As a seller, I would put clay, gray and green in my title in order to attract the most buyers who might be looking for it, but not all sellers think that way.
 
#37,016
picklejuice said:
Ah thank you!
If I may ask, Im curious about the different lighter color names. I saw some bags listed as green, grey, clay, olive, etc. and they all look to be very similar in color to me.
I realize getting info based on sellers descriptions, differently lit photos and variations in wear isn't reliable, but I'm not sure of any other good sources other than asking you all. Would something like this be better suited for the I.D. thread, even if don't own it or don't have it in my possession? Let me know and I will repost there. Not knowing the official color, and using general terms in the search bar wasn't going too well.

For example
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Lega...325861?hash=item1ef6d75465:g:nNYAAOSw7xxcjAi4

https://www.tradesy.com/i/coach-leg...lay-gray-green-leather-shoulder-bag/23691687/

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coach-65th-anniversary-green-legacy-1691936478

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-Lega...555487?hash=item3fc0fa18df:g:YRoAAOSwci1cwN24

https://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-Mine...305668&hash=item2618c0ee15:g:CiwAAOSwfo9a8QWE
Click to expand...

Rather than going through five listings - are you interested in buying any of these, BTW? - I'm just going to say that there's no rhyme or reason for many of Coach's color names, names and colors could change on a yearly basis, and the only way to determine the "official" name of a color is to post the photos including the creed and serial number and hope that someone has a catalog from that time period so they can look up the color name. And even then it can be hard to be sure, the various tan and brown shades available just in one year for some classic and vintage Coaches is a prime example. Color can vary depending on the condition and fading of the leather. Most sellers have no idea what an item's official color name really is, just as they have no idea what year a bag was made, what Coach actually called the style, or whether or not it had any connection to Bonnie Cashin. With very few exceptions, most seller descriptions should be assumed to be at least partly guesswork.

Unless you actually need an authentication, the best thing to do is to take color questions to the main forum.

DON'T depend on color names in listings, most of the time they're wrong.
 
#37,017
BDP said:
Thank you! It’s very hard, or so it seems, to find the 9951 with nickel hardware which is my preference. Do you happen to know if the CR plant bags in 2004 were still using good thick smooshy leather?
Click to expand...
BDP said:
Thank you! It’s very hard, or so it seems, to find the 9951 with nickel hardware which is my preference. Do you happen to know if the CR plant bags in 2004 were still using good thick smooshy leather?
Click to expand...

As far as I know, they were. Whateve may have more experience with that year than I do.

Coach didn't start using nickle hardware on their "classic" handbags until 1998 (1997 on a few Soho styles), and then only for limited styles. If you find a Patricia's Legacy with silver color hardware and a date code from before 1998 it's probably fake and should be authenticated here.
 
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#37,018
Hyacinth said:
As far as I know, they were. Whateve may have more experience with that year than I do.

Coach didn't start using nickle hardware on their handbags until 1998, and then only for limited styles. If you find a Patricia's Legacy with silver color hardware and a date code from before 1998 it's probably fake.
Click to expand...
Thank you again! This is supremely helpful information as it would seem my seller isn’t aware of that either. One of the messages we exchanged during this transaction she said

“The other bag is circa 2005 and made in China. It's authentic, but not vintage (at least not yet). You mentioned you were a collector, so this one is the better one for you. ”

And really the Costa Rican bag is only a year older
 
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#37,019
mbk2012 said:
I hear what you are saying, but trust me I know now this bag should have never gotten past me to begin with. I also have never asked any coach employee or called Coach for authentication as that would be pointless. They are there to sell purses and are not authenticators. Also if I am correct Coach even says that their employees do not authenticate. I usually am much more thorough than I was with this bag. Although the style, weight and leather seemed good I did later notice things many things I missed after posting on here. I started looking and there were many things wrong I should have caught. Not only was the K3H a well know prefix used in fakes (a simple search would have found this), but the zipper is also cheaply made and is definately not a legit ykk zipper (I know ykk means nothing, but when Coach uses them they are not this style of zipper - at least in my experience). As I mentioned above the other purses in this style were made in China and this was made in the USA and the stamping of the number is also different from other bags in this style. Also seen the creed is completely incorrect. That's 4 things that I missed that would have been a red flag. Also noticed most of them have the factory bullseye stamp next the creed which would have had me at least questioning it. To be honest Im not sure what I was even thinking putting this bag up. I honestly dont know how I did not see all these things. If anything this is a lesson learned. Once again I do appreciate all the help you guys give and think you guys offer a great service helping people.

That being said. When I was in the process of looking at all of the details of the bag again I think I may have came across another fake that is just like the one I had. This one is red. There aren't alot of detailed pictures, but from what you can see the creed is the same on this purse and so is the lining. The listing number is:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-7757-Handbag/173871097132?hash=item287b86652c:g:Z9QAAOSwk1BcsJgk
Click to expand...

The details of the creed patch and its stitching are a red flag. Without being able to see the serial number or even enlarge the creed photos we just don't have enough proof to report it but there's NO way I would recommend that anyone buy that bag. As large as that bag is and as easy it would be to pull the creed up high enough to get a good picture of the serial number, I'm wondering if the seller is deliberately concealing it.
 
#37,020
BDP said:
Thank you again! This is supremely helpful information as it would seem my seller isn’t aware of that either. One of the messages we exchanged during this transaction she said

“The other bag is circa 2005 and made in China. It's authentic, but not vintage (at least not yet). You mentioned you were a collector, so this one is the better one for you. ”

And really the Costa Rican bag is only a year older
Click to expand...

Exactly. But unless the seller is a member and devout reader of this forum there's probably no way she would know that, since I only came to that conclusion myself 5 or 6 years ago and tPF is probably the only place I've posted it. That's one reasonj why we keep reminding everyone that sellers can never be depended on to know Coach names, production dates, color names, style lines, or any connections to Bonnie Cashin. Take everything in a description with a grain of salt unless you can see it with your own eyes, and as that 2004 Costa Rica creed shows, even THAT can be misleading. Here' what might be my first detailed post on the subject:
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/authenticate-this-coach.818914/page-180#post-24977873

and it looks like "someone" at the Ebay Fashion forum posted the information there, along with a few Salearea Guide and Coach Fakes List links :smile:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Fashion/Coach-bag-style-and-date-help/td-p/28726185
 
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