2- Coach Authenticity Guides - Facts and Myths - SALEAREA COACH GUIDES
by "Hyacinth" for Salearea
It seems like every day we hear about someone who bought a Coach or other designer bag or accessory based on what some online "Authenticity Guide" said was proof that the item was genuine, or about some honest seller being reported, receiving Negative Feedback, or being forced to refund the cost of an absolutely genuine bag because the buyer or someone looking at the listing read in some Guide that a detail in the construction of the bag absolutely proved it was fake. Regardless of how good the motives of the people who have written and posted these Guides at Ebay and all over the internet might be, the information they're based on is often a hodgepodge of "Rules" copied from earlier Guides and usually years out of date, or based on just a small percentage of Coach's products, or only true for a very short time period, or that have exceptions that are never mentioned, or that were never true at all.
Online Guides should NEVER be depended on to authenticate a Coach. INFORMATION POSTED IN SOME GUIDE CAN NEVER PROVE A "COACH" IS GENUINE. NEITHER CAN A SERIAL NUMBER BY ITSELF. THE ONLY PROOF OF AUTHENTICITY COMES FROM A FULL SET OF PHOTOS THAT SHOW THAT ALL THE DETAILS ARE IDENTICAL TO KNOWN GENUINE EXAMPLES OF THE SAME STYLE, PREFERABLY FROM THE SAME TIME PERIOD AND MANUFACTURING PLANT.
This Guide isn't an Authenticity Guide and doesn't pretend to be, it's a warning about some of the incorrect information posted in so many other Guides. Any guide claiming to show you how to prove authenticity is selling snake oil. The Rules they include can vary, but the problems those so-called Rules create are very real and can be very serious.
Let's look at some of the Rules that have caused the most problems.
THE YKK ZIPPER RULE -
The worst offender - Hyacinth wrote another entire Guide about this. Scroll down a bit to find it.
The simple fact is that having zippers that say YKK on a Coach bag or other item can NEVER prove the item's genuine since Coach has used at least 5 or 6 different brands of zippers over its history and even today a few new styles use zippers that don't have a YKK stamp. That Rule also ignores the obvious fact that any fakes maker can buy either genuine OR fake YKK zippers.
THE CREED STAMP RULES
First of all, just having a creed stamp or a serial number can't prove anything's genuine. Almost all fakes have creed stamps and numbers, often accurate ones that match the bag's style, and sometimes invalid ones that can prove an item is fake.
Also, not all Coach items have creeds or serial numbers. Aside from the obvious items like wallets (although there have been maybe 6 styles with genuine creeds) small bags that Coach considers "accessories" such as Swingpacks, Pouches, Demis, Cosmetic Bags, Crossbodys, Minis - anything small enough to fit into a larger purse - may or may not have a creed patch, and those patches may or may not have serial numbers. There are no Rules about what style gets and doesn't get patches and numbers. NEVER assume that a smaller bag is fake because it doesn't have a creed. When in doubt, ask here at tPF's "Authenticate This Coach" thread (ATC), or at Ebay's Fashion forum.
Going back a few years - very old vintage bags might not have creed stamps, just a Coach stamp or small plaque clamped into the leather. Creed stamps didn't become the norm until some time around the later 1970s to early 1980s and serial numbers followed shortly (early ones sometimes were just stamped onto a long strip of leather which was glued under the creed stamp).
In the early 1990s, Coach introduced the Italian-made Dakotas that only had a creed specific to the bag with no serial number at all, and those were followed by the Sheridans with creeds but no numbers for many of its styles (see Hyacinth's for Salearea Guides on Coach creeds, serials, and Italian-made bags for more information).
And as if that wasn't confusing enough...
I'll borrow and tweak what Daria48 posted (with her permission) about Coach's most recent blunders regarding creeds and serial numbers:
"Coach has made several major, and in my opinion very foolish changes in the last few years. In Summer 2014 they STOPPED STAMPING THE SERIAL NUMBERS THAT INCLUDED THE PRODUCTION CODES AND STYLE NUMBERS ONTO THE BOTTOM OF THE CREED PATCH. Not only does this make it harder for buyers to find the style number and name of their bag, but it also makes it much harder to spot and identify fakes.
The stamped numbers have been replaced with two TINY white (recently other colors too) fabric tags hidden deep inside the bags, usually along a side or bottom seam and sometimes sewn near the bottom seam of the inside pockets. One shows the country of manufacture, and the other has 2 lines of factory production codes including Coach's style number. Photos of these tags are critical to identify and hopefully authenticate newer bags made after mid-2014.
VERY bad move, Coach.
Then in early 2016 they started including a cheap paper card in purses that they're calling a "Certificate of Authenticity". We've said it many times - there is no such thing. NO PIECE OF PAPER CAN EVER PROVE A COACH IS GENUINE. Any counterfeiter can copy and reproduce a piece of paper! And even if the cards were ID-chipped like some highline makers do with tags inside their luxury bags (Coach doesn't do that), once that card would be taken out of the bag, the "proof" is gone. The ONLY thing that can ever prove or at least strongly indicate a Coach, or any other product, is genuine is if all the details are exactly correct and identical to the genuine version of the same style made in the same plant, month and year. Don't EVER depend on a piece of paper!
Another VERY bad and irresponsible move on Coach's part.
To confuse things even more, Coach once again started stamping the serial numbers on the inside creed patch starting some time in 2017. Unfortunately they also continued to use some completely made-up "serial numbers" showing an invalid style number AND with invalid month and plant codes and NO year code in the serial prefix. Have these authenticated here at tPF or the Ebay Fashion forum."
Now for the related SERIAL NUMBER RULES
Again, not all Coaches have serial numbers, mainly handbags, business and travel bags, luggage, etc.
Any Guide that claims to tell you exactly how many numbers and letters should be in a Coach serial number is probably wrong or will be soon. Coach numbers can be as few as 6 digits for 1996 Summer Olympics items, up to 11 and possibly more for current year (2018) items if they were made for the outlets or for Coach's retail partners.
However, Coach numbers should never have 5 or fewer digits, should never be missing the "No" in front of the serial #, and should never have 2 dashes in the number with one exception - some bags from around 2000 in one specific plant may include an extra dash after the "No" . But usually there should be only be 1 dash EXCEPT for a very few vintage/classic leather bags from the late 1980s where the plant didn't set the number stamping mechanism correctly and it stamped 8 numbers and no dash. These should be verified by the Coach experts here or at Ebay's Fashion forum.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Fashion/bd-p/fashion
Having gaps in the serial number doesn't prove it's fake. Newer plants and older items where the numbers were hand-stamped would often have gaps and other glitches in the numbers. The entire number could be crooked or one or more digits higher or lower than the others.
The last half of the serial number on items made before 1994 does NOT include the style number and can't be used for looking up the style, on Google or anywhere else. If the serial number doesn't include any letters of the alphabet, it's from before 1994 and is just a random bunch of numbers. Please don't even try to use it for authentication or identification.
THE "COACH EMBLEM IS STAMPED ON ALL THE HARDWARE" RULE
This Rule can vary from "on all the hardware" to "on at least one piece of hardware". NONSENSE. Most genuine Coaches made before 2000 don't have any stamps on the hardware at all. Some may have one or maybe even two pieces stamped, but the more the hardware on older bags is stamped, the more likely it is that the bag or item is counterfeit. If all the hardware is stamped, it needs a closer look. Coach has increased the stampings in the last few years, but most of the time, there ARE no rules about this, it varies from style to style.
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and thanks to all of you A’s for the knowledge you freely pass on 