answers to AUTHENTICITY questions!!!
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Hi
Not sure if this is the right place to post this question.But i'm trying to figure out how to read the creed serial number.The bag i bought has this serial number B0832-F11674 Does the 08 after the B mean the year 2008?And what does the first letter stand for?
Thankyou
Not sure if this is the right place to post this question.But i'm trying to figure out how to read the creed serial number.The bag i bought has this serial number B0832-F11674 Does the 08 after the B mean the year 2008?And what does the first letter stand for?
Thankyou
Coach serial numbers can be confusing, and there's so much misinformation about serial numbers that it's getting harder and harder to find accurate information. Many so-called "authenticity guides" spout that all serials must follow such-and-such a rule, which is totally wrong. Serial numbers have been changing almost since they began, and there are no rules" that apply to even a small percentage of them at any one time. Coach still changes the wording, formatting, fonts, stamping methods and numbers of digits in the serial numbers constantly.
The Coach creed began to be stamped in Coach bags some time in the mid to late 1970s, a few years after the "Bonnie Cashin era" which ended in 1974. There's no verified date when Coach began using serial numbers in their bags but mid to late 1970s seems to be close. The first numbers were all numbers - they always started (and still do - NO EXCEPTIONS!) with the abbreviation "No" (with the "o" underscored) for "Number", followed by 3 numbers, a dash and then four more numbers.
The order was completely random until 1994 and every bag had its own unique number, so any time the same exact all-numeric number appears in more than one bag, it's an absolute certainty that at least one, and probably both, of the numbers AND bags are counterfeit. Good examples of known fake serial numbers are "308-9875 and 123-3445 but there are many others. The style number was NOT part of the serial number in true vintage bags (20 years old or more).
Some early bags from the mid to late 1970s had serial numbers that were just stamped into a long thin strip of leather and then glued under the creed stamp, and those would sometimes come loose with wear. So a vintage bag that doesn't have a number but just has an elongated blank oval under the creed statement may just be missing the glued-on number.
Up until the end of the 1990s, the serial numbers were mostly hand-stamped using a mechanism that allowed the operator to change numbers quickly, and often in early Coaches you can see the top or bottom of the next number in line above or below the actual serial number, what I call "overstamping". And rarely the dash between the two halves was missed and a string of 8 numbers would be stamped. Neither of these production glitches means that the bag is a fake, and neither did numbers that were off-center, angled, or bumping into the border of the creed statement. Contrary to what all too many guides say, early Coaches were NOT perfect and uneven numbers are NOT always signs of a fake. But they still need to be checked by an expert since the same things included both accurate and inaccurate overstamping marks can be found in fakes.
Changes came in the late 1980s. Along with a change of ownership and direction, Coach also made changes to both the creeds and the serial numbers. Instead of saying Made in New York City, U.S.A., the addition of new plants and eventual closing of the original NYC production plant meant a change in the last line of the creed to Made in the United States from about 1988 up until the early 1990s when plants outside the US were added and the wording changed again.
The serial number format also slowly changed during the 1989-1992 period to the usual No followed by FOUR numbers, a dash and three more numbers. As before, none of these numbers have ANY significance - they dont indicate the date or plant and most important, they dont include the style number! Any serial number from before 1994 thats ALL NUMBERS does NOT include the style number and cant be used on its own to identify or authenticate the bag. It doesnt mean that a bag is fake if the last three or four digits dont seem to belong to the right style - theyre not supposed to.
To create even more confusion, some bags didnt have serial numbers at all. Coach made several lines of pebbled leather Spectator-style bags in the early 1990s that break that rule too. The Dakota family of bags introduced in 1992 were pebbled leather, unlined, and made in Italy, and none of them had serial numbers. Right behind them came the very similar Sheridans - also pebbled but with a textured taupe fabric lining and made in the U.S., Italy, or Costa Rica, and about a third of them didnt have numbers either. Both lines used sewn-in creed patches that were unique to those two style families and mentioned the all-weather-type leather's "special treatment to maintain a new appearance over time".
A major change came in 1994. Production codes along with the bags style number now became part of the serial number. The first digit was the month code, always a letter of the alphabet and supposed to include only A through M. However a few mistakes were made by plant personnel who "hadn't read the memo" and a rare N might slip through. The letter i was avoided because it was too easy to confuse it with the number 1, but like with "N" very rarely a few bags might slip through from one of the plants outside the US where the employees also "hadn't read the memo" and used "i" for September.
The second digit, always a number, was the year the bag was made. Since the new serial formatting began in 1994, 4 was the first year code used, and single digits would continue to be used for a decade, from 1994 until 2003 - "4" for 1994, "5" for 1995, all the way thru 0 for the year 2000. Then "1" for 2001, "2" for 2002, and 3 for 2003. In 2004 a Zero was added to differentiate between 1994 and 2004 and to match the actual year abbreviation - "04" for 2004, "05" for 2005, etc, and that continues to the present with the Zero changing to a One in 2010 so that the code for 2010 is 10. The year code is still the 2 center digits in the first half of the serial number. All year codes in all items made in 1994 or later will be in the center (the second or second and third digits) of the first half of the serial number, except for the mistakes mentioned elsewhere in this post. Any serial number in any Coach made in 1994 or later that ONLY has a 4- or 5-digit style number and doesn't have at least 3 digits in front of the style number is fake.
The third or last digit was the plant code, which can be either a letter of the alphabet OR a number. With the expansion to Turkey, China and beyond, Coach ran out of letters and began using numbers. Since the original New York City plant was closed before the new codes began, there should never be any number with an A code. B, C and D stood for the US plants that took over from the NYC plant. And although its remotely possible that Coach may have used the same code for more than one plant (or maybe even tried to disguise the non-USA origins of some bags by using a Made in the US creed stamp but with the correct non-US code digit in the serial number - this is strictly speculation on my part), usually a contradiction between the plant code digit and the country actually named in the creed means the bag has a discrepancy that needs to be examined and authenticated. The actual plant codes werent made public but a few Coachies have figured them out pretty well. Plant codes were single digits until 2006 when Coach began updating all its plant codes to 2 numbers each.
(BTW, a few bags from the mid-1990s Sheridan, Madison and Sonoma lines sometimes will have 2 of the production codes reversed, such as "6AM-" instead of A6M-. That doesn't mean the bag is fake! Mistakes were pretty common especially in non-US plants and odd serial numbers other than verified always-fake numbers shouldn't be reported as fake without expert verification.
The second half of the number, after the dash, was now the products Style number and was usually four digits long, but some bags and accessories had 3-digit style numbers, like some early Scribble bags and many bags from the early 1990s' Travel and Business lines. Sometimes an older style that only had a 3-digit style number would have a Zero added in front of it to make four digits. So a Cabin Bag made in the B plant in March 1994 would have a serial of C4B-0502. (BTW, those 3-digit style numbers beginning with -5 or -05 always belonged to items from the Travel and Business lines - any HANDBAGS other than Business-style Totes with serial numbers where the style number starts with -05 such as H4B-0532 are counterfeit - ask at the Authenticate This Coach thread for authentication).
Since there also were some bags with only 3 digits in their style numbers Coach sometimes confused the situation even more by issuing totally different 4-digit style numbers for the same item. Most of this waffling about serial and style numbers took place between 2005 and 2006 and those serial numbers break every so-called rule ever written. As one of Ebays most respected Pursies (thank you, Denimbarks!) once said, the only consistent thing about Coach is its inconsistency. Always remember those words and take them to heart.
(Please go to PART 2)
The Coach creed began to be stamped in Coach bags some time in the mid to late 1970s, a few years after the "Bonnie Cashin era" which ended in 1974. There's no verified date when Coach began using serial numbers in their bags but mid to late 1970s seems to be close. The first numbers were all numbers - they always started (and still do - NO EXCEPTIONS!) with the abbreviation "No" (with the "o" underscored) for "Number", followed by 3 numbers, a dash and then four more numbers.
The order was completely random until 1994 and every bag had its own unique number, so any time the same exact all-numeric number appears in more than one bag, it's an absolute certainty that at least one, and probably both, of the numbers AND bags are counterfeit. Good examples of known fake serial numbers are "308-9875 and 123-3445 but there are many others. The style number was NOT part of the serial number in true vintage bags (20 years old or more).
Some early bags from the mid to late 1970s had serial numbers that were just stamped into a long thin strip of leather and then glued under the creed stamp, and those would sometimes come loose with wear. So a vintage bag that doesn't have a number but just has an elongated blank oval under the creed statement may just be missing the glued-on number.
Up until the end of the 1990s, the serial numbers were mostly hand-stamped using a mechanism that allowed the operator to change numbers quickly, and often in early Coaches you can see the top or bottom of the next number in line above or below the actual serial number, what I call "overstamping". And rarely the dash between the two halves was missed and a string of 8 numbers would be stamped. Neither of these production glitches means that the bag is a fake, and neither did numbers that were off-center, angled, or bumping into the border of the creed statement. Contrary to what all too many guides say, early Coaches were NOT perfect and uneven numbers are NOT always signs of a fake. But they still need to be checked by an expert since the same things included both accurate and inaccurate overstamping marks can be found in fakes.
Changes came in the late 1980s. Along with a change of ownership and direction, Coach also made changes to both the creeds and the serial numbers. Instead of saying Made in New York City, U.S.A., the addition of new plants and eventual closing of the original NYC production plant meant a change in the last line of the creed to Made in the United States from about 1988 up until the early 1990s when plants outside the US were added and the wording changed again.
The serial number format also slowly changed during the 1989-1992 period to the usual No followed by FOUR numbers, a dash and three more numbers. As before, none of these numbers have ANY significance - they dont indicate the date or plant and most important, they dont include the style number! Any serial number from before 1994 thats ALL NUMBERS does NOT include the style number and cant be used on its own to identify or authenticate the bag. It doesnt mean that a bag is fake if the last three or four digits dont seem to belong to the right style - theyre not supposed to.
To create even more confusion, some bags didnt have serial numbers at all. Coach made several lines of pebbled leather Spectator-style bags in the early 1990s that break that rule too. The Dakota family of bags introduced in 1992 were pebbled leather, unlined, and made in Italy, and none of them had serial numbers. Right behind them came the very similar Sheridans - also pebbled but with a textured taupe fabric lining and made in the U.S., Italy, or Costa Rica, and about a third of them didnt have numbers either. Both lines used sewn-in creed patches that were unique to those two style families and mentioned the all-weather-type leather's "special treatment to maintain a new appearance over time".
A major change came in 1994. Production codes along with the bags style number now became part of the serial number. The first digit was the month code, always a letter of the alphabet and supposed to include only A through M. However a few mistakes were made by plant personnel who "hadn't read the memo" and a rare N might slip through. The letter i was avoided because it was too easy to confuse it with the number 1, but like with "N" very rarely a few bags might slip through from one of the plants outside the US where the employees also "hadn't read the memo" and used "i" for September.
The second digit, always a number, was the year the bag was made. Since the new serial formatting began in 1994, 4 was the first year code used, and single digits would continue to be used for a decade, from 1994 until 2003 - "4" for 1994, "5" for 1995, all the way thru 0 for the year 2000. Then "1" for 2001, "2" for 2002, and 3 for 2003. In 2004 a Zero was added to differentiate between 1994 and 2004 and to match the actual year abbreviation - "04" for 2004, "05" for 2005, etc, and that continues to the present with the Zero changing to a One in 2010 so that the code for 2010 is 10. The year code is still the 2 center digits in the first half of the serial number. All year codes in all items made in 1994 or later will be in the center (the second or second and third digits) of the first half of the serial number, except for the mistakes mentioned elsewhere in this post. Any serial number in any Coach made in 1994 or later that ONLY has a 4- or 5-digit style number and doesn't have at least 3 digits in front of the style number is fake.
The third or last digit was the plant code, which can be either a letter of the alphabet OR a number. With the expansion to Turkey, China and beyond, Coach ran out of letters and began using numbers. Since the original New York City plant was closed before the new codes began, there should never be any number with an A code. B, C and D stood for the US plants that took over from the NYC plant. And although its remotely possible that Coach may have used the same code for more than one plant (or maybe even tried to disguise the non-USA origins of some bags by using a Made in the US creed stamp but with the correct non-US code digit in the serial number - this is strictly speculation on my part), usually a contradiction between the plant code digit and the country actually named in the creed means the bag has a discrepancy that needs to be examined and authenticated. The actual plant codes werent made public but a few Coachies have figured them out pretty well. Plant codes were single digits until 2006 when Coach began updating all its plant codes to 2 numbers each.
(BTW, a few bags from the mid-1990s Sheridan, Madison and Sonoma lines sometimes will have 2 of the production codes reversed, such as "6AM-" instead of A6M-. That doesn't mean the bag is fake! Mistakes were pretty common especially in non-US plants and odd serial numbers other than verified always-fake numbers shouldn't be reported as fake without expert verification.
The second half of the number, after the dash, was now the products Style number and was usually four digits long, but some bags and accessories had 3-digit style numbers, like some early Scribble bags and many bags from the early 1990s' Travel and Business lines. Sometimes an older style that only had a 3-digit style number would have a Zero added in front of it to make four digits. So a Cabin Bag made in the B plant in March 1994 would have a serial of C4B-0502. (BTW, those 3-digit style numbers beginning with -5 or -05 always belonged to items from the Travel and Business lines - any HANDBAGS other than Business-style Totes with serial numbers where the style number starts with -05 such as H4B-0532 are counterfeit - ask at the Authenticate This Coach thread for authentication).
Since there also were some bags with only 3 digits in their style numbers Coach sometimes confused the situation even more by issuing totally different 4-digit style numbers for the same item. Most of this waffling about serial and style numbers took place between 2005 and 2006 and those serial numbers break every so-called rule ever written. As one of Ebays most respected Pursies (thank you, Denimbarks!) once said, the only consistent thing about Coach is its inconsistency. Always remember those words and take them to heart.
(Please go to PART 2)
(Continued from Part 1)
There is NO consistent "Rule" about Coach serial numbers, but they will ALMOST ALWAYS have at least 7 digits with only one exception - items made for the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta, which often had only six digits, 3 production codes in the first half and a 3-digit style number.
Any Coach item that has only 5 or fewer digits in the serial number, and / or is missing the No in front of the number, is almost 100 percent certain of being fake. If the creed also says Made in Korea it's fake, NO EXCEPTIONS. Every Coach made in or after 1994 will always have at least three digits in the first half of the number including a one or two-number year code in the center position. If theres just a letter and a number, or only 2 letters and no number, the item is FAKE - no exceptions. NT-4903 is the most common example but there are dozens more.
The style number itself has also changed constantly over the years. In 2005 Coach was running out of numbers between 001 and 9999, so they experimented with using a mix of letters and numbers, such as 8F41 (Scribble Brights Pocket Zip, which also had a style number of 2166 - see the inconsistency comment above), and by using up previously unused numbers including some of the 3-digit numbers already mentioned. In late 2006 they finally came to their senses and began using 5-digit all-number style numbers. So now not only was the style number longer, but remember that the year code now also had 2 numbers as of 2004, meaning the minimum number of digits in a serial number had gone up to Nine.
Apparently Coach prefers round numbers so in 2006 after realizing that their major expansion into manufacturing in the Far East meant that they were not only out of alphabet letters to use as plant codes, but theyd run out of single numbers as well, all plant codes were changed from one number to two - for instance Italy went from being E to 12 - and now the minimum number of digits was a nice round ten.
But wait - theres more!!! Almost at the same time Coach started to include the letter F at the beginning of the style number to indicate when an item had been made exclusively for their Factory (outlet) stores - sometimes referred to as MFF for Made For Factory - and they have added a few MORE letter codes to confuse things even further, such as a P after the style number to indicate a pilot bag released in limited numbers to test buyers response, and a few other letter codes to indicate what specific retailer the bag was made for.
And thats the way things sit at the moment (October 2011). But change is inevitable, especially with Coach, and more new codes and more serial number changes will show up sooner or later. So as I mentioned at the beginning, ANY so-called guide that claims that serial numbers always follow a certain rule or always have x number of digits or always have only numbers in them are, to put it politely, BULL-POOP.
Dont EVER depend on any online Guide that claims that Coach follows certain Rules - they dont. They make them and almost immediately break them, but so far Ive only found 2 consistent unbreakable Rules;
1- bags that are all or mostly any type of Coach's "C" patterns or Coach logos on the outside should never have Cs or Coach logos on the linings, and 2- Coach has NEVER made bags in Korea. Of course now that theyre moving production out of China to cheaper sources like Vietnam, India, and the Philippines, that Rule may not last long either.
I hope this explains the complexity of that little string of numbers and letters stamped inside (almost) every bag. Not only can it tell a bags history and pedigree, but to an experienced Coach specialist it can tell whather or not the bag is The Real Deal. As we keep reminding our members, DONT buy from sellers who dont or wont show clear photos of the serial number!
There are dozens of serials used only by counterfeiters that would never show up in genuine bags, and there are numbers frequently used in both real and fake bags that can raise a red flag. There are even lists of commonly-used fake serial numbers available in several places online including this thread - check for the most recent version and read ALL the parts and the posts after it for additional numbers found after the posts were made. Daria48 has an identical list posted at Ebay:
http://reviews.ebay.com/FAKE-SERIAL-NUMBERS-AND-COUNTERFEIT-COACH-BAGS_W0QQugidZ10000000002744619
The ladies here at our Authenticate This Coach thread
http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-694619.html
and at Ebays Shoes, Purses and Accessories forum can usually spot a fake or questionable number pretty quickly. Ask for advice here or there before you bid. And dont bid unless you can see that number and read the creed statement (check carefully for misspellings!), as long as the bag opens enough for a camera to fit inside. If the seller won't post or send a clear readable photo of the creed and serial number, DON'T BID!
There is NO consistent "Rule" about Coach serial numbers, but they will ALMOST ALWAYS have at least 7 digits with only one exception - items made for the 1996 Summer Olympic Games in Atlanta, which often had only six digits, 3 production codes in the first half and a 3-digit style number.
Any Coach item that has only 5 or fewer digits in the serial number, and / or is missing the No in front of the number, is almost 100 percent certain of being fake. If the creed also says Made in Korea it's fake, NO EXCEPTIONS. Every Coach made in or after 1994 will always have at least three digits in the first half of the number including a one or two-number year code in the center position. If theres just a letter and a number, or only 2 letters and no number, the item is FAKE - no exceptions. NT-4903 is the most common example but there are dozens more.
The style number itself has also changed constantly over the years. In 2005 Coach was running out of numbers between 001 and 9999, so they experimented with using a mix of letters and numbers, such as 8F41 (Scribble Brights Pocket Zip, which also had a style number of 2166 - see the inconsistency comment above), and by using up previously unused numbers including some of the 3-digit numbers already mentioned. In late 2006 they finally came to their senses and began using 5-digit all-number style numbers. So now not only was the style number longer, but remember that the year code now also had 2 numbers as of 2004, meaning the minimum number of digits in a serial number had gone up to Nine.
Apparently Coach prefers round numbers so in 2006 after realizing that their major expansion into manufacturing in the Far East meant that they were not only out of alphabet letters to use as plant codes, but theyd run out of single numbers as well, all plant codes were changed from one number to two - for instance Italy went from being E to 12 - and now the minimum number of digits was a nice round ten.
But wait - theres more!!! Almost at the same time Coach started to include the letter F at the beginning of the style number to indicate when an item had been made exclusively for their Factory (outlet) stores - sometimes referred to as MFF for Made For Factory - and they have added a few MORE letter codes to confuse things even further, such as a P after the style number to indicate a pilot bag released in limited numbers to test buyers response, and a few other letter codes to indicate what specific retailer the bag was made for.
And thats the way things sit at the moment (October 2011). But change is inevitable, especially with Coach, and more new codes and more serial number changes will show up sooner or later. So as I mentioned at the beginning, ANY so-called guide that claims that serial numbers always follow a certain rule or always have x number of digits or always have only numbers in them are, to put it politely, BULL-POOP.
Dont EVER depend on any online Guide that claims that Coach follows certain Rules - they dont. They make them and almost immediately break them, but so far Ive only found 2 consistent unbreakable Rules;
1- bags that are all or mostly any type of Coach's "C" patterns or Coach logos on the outside should never have Cs or Coach logos on the linings, and 2- Coach has NEVER made bags in Korea. Of course now that theyre moving production out of China to cheaper sources like Vietnam, India, and the Philippines, that Rule may not last long either.
I hope this explains the complexity of that little string of numbers and letters stamped inside (almost) every bag. Not only can it tell a bags history and pedigree, but to an experienced Coach specialist it can tell whather or not the bag is The Real Deal. As we keep reminding our members, DONT buy from sellers who dont or wont show clear photos of the serial number!
There are dozens of serials used only by counterfeiters that would never show up in genuine bags, and there are numbers frequently used in both real and fake bags that can raise a red flag. There are even lists of commonly-used fake serial numbers available in several places online including this thread - check for the most recent version and read ALL the parts and the posts after it for additional numbers found after the posts were made. Daria48 has an identical list posted at Ebay:
http://reviews.ebay.com/FAKE-SERIAL-NUMBERS-AND-COUNTERFEIT-COACH-BAGS_W0QQugidZ10000000002744619
The ladies here at our Authenticate This Coach thread
http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-694619.html
and at Ebays Shoes, Purses and Accessories forum can usually spot a fake or questionable number pretty quickly. Ask for advice here or there before you bid. And dont bid unless you can see that number and read the creed statement (check carefully for misspellings!), as long as the bag opens enough for a camera to fit inside. If the seller won't post or send a clear readable photo of the creed and serial number, DON'T BID!
Yes very helpful and i enjoyed reading it its very interesting info.Thankyou.
You're welcome
Do these two serial numbers look like they are from authentic bags?
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Coach-Lexington-Brown-Pebbled-Leather-Bag-and-Organizer-Combo-/00/s/NzY0WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqQOKjwE6ngy7(uKBOql2+4md!~~60_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MINT-COACH-BRITISH-TAN-LEXINGTON-BRIEFCASE-TOTE-LAPTOP-BAG-/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqEOKpYE5cq)!zq4BOlI!HrcT!~~60_12.JPG
Thanks!
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Vintage-Coach-Lexington-Brown-Pebbled-Leather-Bag-and-Organizer-Combo-/00/s/NzY0WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqQOKjwE6ngy7(uKBOql2+4md!~~60_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/t/MINT-COACH-BRITISH-TAN-LEXINGTON-BRIEFCASE-TOTE-LAPTOP-BAG-/00/s/NzY4WDEwMjQ=/$(KGrHqEOKpYE5cq)!zq4BOlI!HrcT!~~60_12.JPG
Thanks!
It's perfectly possible for both of those to be from genuine bags.
Coach changed the format of the serial number many times through 2005 and 2006 when these both were made. Since they began using 5-digit style numbers (the -6457 part) beginning in 2006, bags made earlier in the year (the bag with the serial number starting with D was made in April, the one starting with J was made in September) might have the old-style 4-digit number while bags made later in the year would just have a zero added in front of the number to make it match the new 5-digit format and work with the new stamping mechanisms.
And if the bag was re-made a year or two later (for instance, for the Factory Stores) the same style bag might have received a brand-new 5-digit number to bring it into compliance with the new format. The few bags that didn't get brand-new numbers but still use their familiar classic style numbers plus a zero in front are the oldies, the Coach "originals" like the Willis, Signature Demi, Patricia's Legacy, etc that are still sold on Coach's website. For instance the Willis is still listed as style # 9927, and if you bought a new one from Coach the second half of the stamped serial number would be -09927.
http://www.coach.com/online/handbag...=yes&searchKeyword=willis&cacheKeyword=WILLIS
and the others:
http://www.coach.com/online/handbag...earchKeyword=originals&cacheKeyword=ORIGINALS
If you need either of the bags you asked about authenticated, you can check post 1 of the Authenticate This Coach thread and use the format requested there to post in that thread. But both creed patches have valid formats for the month and year the bags were made.
Read my posts just a few numbers before this one - # 620 and 621 - for more information about serial numbers. Or read the Salearea Coach Guides posted over at Ebay:
http://search.reviews.ebay.com/members/salearea_W0QQcpnameZmembersQQprZsaleareaQQuqtZg
Hmm, there is something suspicious about the serial number that starts with an F in the style number.
The seller claims that the bag is bought from South Coast Plaza's Coach Boutique, which should nto be the case if "F" indicates factory store.
The seller claims that the bag is bought from South Coast Plaza's Coach Boutique, which should nto be the case if "F" indicates factory store.
Just because a seller outright lies about where she bought something doesn't make it fake.
The link below is the bag. I debated about whether to get this bag or the other one that was described as *(near) mint*. (Stupid me). In the end I got the latter because the seller for the latter auction has 100% feedback, and the former's seller has a lower feedback...
Btw, thank you and noshoepolish for helping me with dealing with the seller. He (thought it was a she...) let me return the bag (though I paid for shipping out of my own pocket...)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ory=15665&_trksid=p5197.c0.m619#ht_500wt_1321