answers to AUTHENTICITY questions!!!
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Coach Serial Numbers
(There are some early to mid 70's bags that have the Coach Creed and an obviously glued-on serial mark that was added to the bag after it was manufactured. You can see that the serial number was applied to a leather strip and then placed under the Coach Creed in these early purses. Sometimes the strip with the number would come lose or fall off leaving just a strip of bare leather where the number should be.)
I know this is going to sound like the "which came first, the chicken or the egg" kind of question but in regards to the early Coach numbers(xxx-xxxx), did the patched numbers come before the stamped or is it the other way around? My reason for asking is that I have both kinds and was just wondering if they are two separate groups or all part of the same. :wonderingThanks
Thank you, Hyacinth,...if they are separate, I think I should probably keep them that way.
Thanks
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Hey experts, I need some help.
I purchased a pair of Martha sunglasses on eBay to replace my pair with a badly scratched lens. I bought from a reputable seller, and I didn't even get a great deal (not too many options available for this style, but I love them).
The new pair arrived today, and they look identical to my Coach boutique purchased pair except for one detail...on the new pair, there is no etched Coach lozenge on the outside of the arm where it would go behind your ear. I checked my outlet purchased Delphine sunglasses, and they have this lozenge too. Since there is no lozenge, does this mean they are fake? Also, the new pair came with the newer white embossed case whereas my old pair came with the brown signature print case. Any help is appreciated. For the price I paid, I want authentic sunglasses, not good fakes.
I purchased a pair of Martha sunglasses on eBay to replace my pair with a badly scratched lens. I bought from a reputable seller, and I didn't even get a great deal (not too many options available for this style, but I love them).
The new pair arrived today, and they look identical to my Coach boutique purchased pair except for one detail...on the new pair, there is no etched Coach lozenge on the outside of the arm where it would go behind your ear. I checked my outlet purchased Delphine sunglasses, and they have this lozenge too. Since there is no lozenge, does this mean they are fake? Also, the new pair came with the newer white embossed case whereas my old pair came with the brown signature print case. Any help is appreciated. For the price I paid, I want authentic sunglasses, not good fakes.
Please post pictures of the sunglasses in the http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-577470.html thread and we'll take a look. It would also help to include a link to the ebay listing.
Perhaps the mods can move this post to the AT Coach forum.
Is this the listing? It's the only pair of "Martha" that has a recent sale?
New COACH MARTHA Sunglasses (Black) S832 free ship!
Item: 250660216224
Seller: dave1surf
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-COACH-MARTHA-Sunglasses-Black-S832-free-ship-/250660216224
If this is the item, had you asked before purchasing, you probably would have been advised to either request several pictures of the actual glasses or to not purchase from this seller.
Every listing uses only the manufacturer's stock photo so it's impossible to know whether what you'll receive.
Please post pictures of the inside of both arms, outside of both arms and both earpieces.
That's not the seller I bought from. I found his listings questionable for the reasons you mentioned, and also because his retail price isn't even correct! Thank you for your help, I saw the reply in the other thread! The seller I purchased from is an optometrist (with a brick and mortar store viewable on Google street view with his confirmed PayPal address). I wonder if Coach doesn't use the etch lozenge on sunglasses manufactured for optometrist resale? I work next to an optometrist, I will have to check out the Coach sunglasses he has tomorrow.
Hi, I am new here and was wondering, what is a "creed?" 
I have come upon the term several times and have yet to decipher what it means... Thanks for your help.
I have come upon the term several times and have yet to decipher what it means... Thanks for your help.
The creed is the leather patch inside many Coach items. It tells information about where the bag was made, what materials it was made out of and usually has a serial number stamped into the leather.Hi, I am new here and was wondering, what is a "creed?"
I've attached a picture of a creed.
I just want to comment that not all Coach items have creeds and many of those that do have creeds, may or may not have a serial number. Some of the smaller accessories such as swingpacks, cosmetic cases, pouches, wristlets, etc. may or may not have creeds.
Attachments
Thank you BeenBurned! I appreciate your response to my question. This forum is wonderful and fascinating. :tpfrox:
With the holidays coming up, it's probably time for an update:
UPDATED FAKES LIST, Oct. 2010, Part 1
COACHES WITH THESE NUMBERS ARE ALWAYS FAKE:
NT-4903 (the King of the fake serial numbers!)
NT-4908
NT-4115
NT-4157
NT-9992
DK-8674
TF-6823
TN-4136
TN-4186
TN-9085
TN-9096
TN-9927
TN-9951
4C-8624
4C-9911
40-8624
7H-7456
KE-6042
JH-9080
H6S-9135
012-3445
233-5678
308-9875
308-9937
ANY Coach bag with only two letters or one number and one letter to the left of the hyphen can be assumed to be fake.
501-20 + all similar numbers starting with 101-, 202-, 501-, 701-, etc., followed by 2 or 3 numbers after the dash and usually with a patch that says "made in Korea" are ALWAYS fake, no exceptions.
Coach NEVER made bags in Korea and never used serial numbers with only 5 or 6 digits like this:
"xxx-xx" or "xxx-xxx" and without the abbreviated "No." in front of the numbers
Coach never made 'classic' leather bags with matching sewn-on cell phone holders.
These numbers on PURSES are always fake, but they may be OK in travel bags or briefcases:
H4B-0516
H4B-0678
H4B-0517
H4B-0520
H4B-0532
HRB-0516
00138 - always fake, with or without any numbers or letters in front of it
Any bag with a serial # ending in -9956 needs to be looked at by someone very familiar with Coach, all bags with this number have so far been fake
.................................................................
ALL THESE ARE HIGHLY SUSPECT AND ANY BAG WITH THESE NUMBERS NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT BY AN EXPERT:
Probably ANY serial number beginning with H4B followed by a style # beginning with -05xx is probably fake (a Scooter Bag H4B-9893, Bucket Bag H4B-9948 are two of the exceptions, and bags with style numbers beginning with 98xx or 99xx are usually genuine)
A2G-6094 and A2J-6094 - or ANY bag ending in 6094 - Fake if it's NOT a Demi Bag, and Demi Bags have also been faked
A5B-3906 - fake Sonoma Double Zip Bags
J4D-4133 - Fake if it's NOT a Waverly Bag. This is a VERY popular number for fake bags!
L4C-9941 or LAC-9941
G7D-8188 - very suspect and probably not even a purse style number
M4N-4154
Anything starting with M4N- is suspect.
0444-317, 0444-316 AND 0444-315 and possibly others beginning with 0444 - some "classic" fakes are showing up with these numbers and have a number of mistakes in the creed stamps and on the bags themselves. Assume they're all fake especially if they have a row of horizontal lines above and below the numbers
0212-578 with the same fake "Overstamping" lines has also recently shown up
DEJ-9816 and ECC-9816 - fake prefix and incorret suffix, 9816 belongs to a "classic" Duffle Sac but is often used in fakes, and Coach prefixes should never have 3 letters and no numbers
There are many fakes with serial numbers ending in -9927 but aren't Willis Bags, and Willis Bags are also highly faked and need to be very carefully checked. Fakes have shown up in a lot of classic styles including Station Bags and Taft Bags. Older fakes can be VERY hard to spot and sometimes the details in a certain area of the bag are the only red flags. Be very careful about buying older bags with just one or two photos!
There are fake Signature Stripe Denim Totes and Signature Stripe Denim Satchels using fake serial numbers ending in 11192 and 11190. AFAIK Coach didn't use these numbers in any of their bags.
Any RECENT or current model bag with a serial prefix of M3U- is fake. A genuine bag with this number would have to have been been made in 2003.
M1K-6047 is often used on fakes and any bag with that number needs to be authenticated - in fact, any bag with a style number of -6047 that isn't a fabric Signature Satchel needs to be looked at
The counterfeiters also use many legitimate-looking serial numbers but on the wrong style bags or accessories, like:
-5659 which should only be on a Scribble Tote,
-6094 which should only be on a Signature Demi, and
-1417 which should only be on an East-West Leather duffle. These three numbers are special favorites with counterfeiters and have appeared on thousands of fakes.
Accessories with style #-5077 are fake, that number belongs to an Optic Bee Tote.
Bags beginning with K3H-, J8H-, and M4B- prefixes are possible counterfeits especially if the font of the digits of the serial number seems slightly different. Ask an expert to take a look
Fake numbers L4C-9941 and LAC-9941 and possibly other combinations ending in 9941 are showing up on a variety of classic-looking leather bags, most with badly wrinkled "stretch-marked" leather and a "Coach" imprint somewhere on the front of the bag, usually off-center. They'll sometimes have cell phone holders sewn on the side of the bag. Coach has NEVER sewn cell phone holders on the outside of its classic leather bags.
GAC- and GAG- prefixes have also turned up lately. ANY bag with just three LETTERS to the left of the dash is fake. Be careful not to mistake a Zero in the center position for the letter O though, all bags made in 2000 will have a zero in the center.
we've seen several Coaches with this serial number: P7B-4907
Not only are the bags NOT Sonoma Small Bucket Zips, but the first digit "P" is completely wrong and would never be used on ANY Coach. Any bag with this serial number is counterfeit.
Fakes are also showing up with the # J4N-4082 which belongs ONLY to an all-leather Soho Bag from 1994.
D2J-6068 is turning up on fakes recently
J6D-9033 is ALWAYS fake - it's showing up mostly on fake Ergos.
M4S-7414 has shown up on a couple of fakes that aren't Mercers. Bags with this number Need to be looked at by a Coach expert.
These serial numbers belong to genuine styles but often show up in fakes. Always check to be sure the style matches the bag and that there are no "red flags":
J3J-6818 - Should be a Soho mini sig flap bag
B3K-7022 - It should be a small denim signature pouch with red stripes center front, but the authentic version is rarely seen.
MIK-6047 - This serial number (often with an invalid prefix) is commonly seen on a variety of different style fakes but only belongs in a genuine Signature Satchel.
Styles number -40725 has been showing up in fake bags and Swingpacks
Style number -1202 and other numbers from 1000 to 1300 should NEVER be in a bag or accessory and always indicate a fake. Those low 1000s numbers were only used for stationary items like planner, address book and sketch pad refills
Any 'classic' leather bags with the # 0444-31(X) and heany vertical lines above and below the numbers is fake
More fake 'classic' leather Coaches are showing up with bad creeds and the bogus "overstamping lines" above and below the serial numbers like the above. The latest one is a fake light blue tote (always be careful with older bags in unusual colors, Coach's classic leather colors were pretty conservative so anything besides the usual black, brown, navy, mahogany, British Tan, dark green etc should be examined closely).
Also watch for these numbers - 0212-578 and 1212-578, all found so far have been fake.
Any bag (especially any in the Hippie Flap style) with a serial number of H6S-9135 should be referred to a qualified expert for authentication. The style number belongs only to a Leather Hippie Flap bag but the ones we've seen with this number are either the wrong fabric or have invalid code digits and badly-stamped creeds.
Also look VERY carefully at classic bags beginning with " H6M- " and with "Made in the United States" at the bottom of the creed, quite a few fakes seem to use this prefix.
And a lot of newer style Coaches are showing up with only a 5-digit number after the "No", either on the same line as the last words of the creed or by itself at the bottom of the patch - number 00138 is the most common. All these are fake. Coach serial numbers will NEVER have only five digits. Six-digit numbers also indicate a fake UNLESS the bag or travel item was made for and clearly marked as being part of Coach's 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games collection.
Serial numbers beginning with the letters " I " or with N thru Z are not valid Coach numbers and are almost certainly fake but there ARE a few very rare exceptions. Ask an expert
Coaches with a thick paper tag (usually dark gray or silver) that says "Made In Italy" or "Made In USA" are fakes.
Any bag with a tag or patch that says "Sports Coach" is NOT a genuine Coach
.................................................................
UPDATED FAKES LIST, Oct. 2010, Part 1
COACHES WITH THESE NUMBERS ARE ALWAYS FAKE:
NT-4903 (the King of the fake serial numbers!)
NT-4908
NT-4115
NT-4157
NT-9992
DK-8674
TF-6823
TN-4136
TN-4186
TN-9085
TN-9096
TN-9927
TN-9951
4C-8624
4C-9911
40-8624
7H-7456
KE-6042
JH-9080
H6S-9135
012-3445
233-5678
308-9875
308-9937
ANY Coach bag with only two letters or one number and one letter to the left of the hyphen can be assumed to be fake.
501-20 + all similar numbers starting with 101-, 202-, 501-, 701-, etc., followed by 2 or 3 numbers after the dash and usually with a patch that says "made in Korea" are ALWAYS fake, no exceptions.
Coach NEVER made bags in Korea and never used serial numbers with only 5 or 6 digits like this:
"xxx-xx" or "xxx-xxx" and without the abbreviated "No." in front of the numbers
Coach never made 'classic' leather bags with matching sewn-on cell phone holders.
These numbers on PURSES are always fake, but they may be OK in travel bags or briefcases:
H4B-0516
H4B-0678
H4B-0517
H4B-0520
H4B-0532
HRB-0516
00138 - always fake, with or without any numbers or letters in front of it
Any bag with a serial # ending in -9956 needs to be looked at by someone very familiar with Coach, all bags with this number have so far been fake
.................................................................
ALL THESE ARE HIGHLY SUSPECT AND ANY BAG WITH THESE NUMBERS NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT BY AN EXPERT:
Probably ANY serial number beginning with H4B followed by a style # beginning with -05xx is probably fake (a Scooter Bag H4B-9893, Bucket Bag H4B-9948 are two of the exceptions, and bags with style numbers beginning with 98xx or 99xx are usually genuine)
A2G-6094 and A2J-6094 - or ANY bag ending in 6094 - Fake if it's NOT a Demi Bag, and Demi Bags have also been faked
A5B-3906 - fake Sonoma Double Zip Bags
J4D-4133 - Fake if it's NOT a Waverly Bag. This is a VERY popular number for fake bags!
L4C-9941 or LAC-9941
G7D-8188 - very suspect and probably not even a purse style number
M4N-4154
Anything starting with M4N- is suspect.
0444-317, 0444-316 AND 0444-315 and possibly others beginning with 0444 - some "classic" fakes are showing up with these numbers and have a number of mistakes in the creed stamps and on the bags themselves. Assume they're all fake especially if they have a row of horizontal lines above and below the numbers
0212-578 with the same fake "Overstamping" lines has also recently shown up
DEJ-9816 and ECC-9816 - fake prefix and incorret suffix, 9816 belongs to a "classic" Duffle Sac but is often used in fakes, and Coach prefixes should never have 3 letters and no numbers
There are many fakes with serial numbers ending in -9927 but aren't Willis Bags, and Willis Bags are also highly faked and need to be very carefully checked. Fakes have shown up in a lot of classic styles including Station Bags and Taft Bags. Older fakes can be VERY hard to spot and sometimes the details in a certain area of the bag are the only red flags. Be very careful about buying older bags with just one or two photos!
There are fake Signature Stripe Denim Totes and Signature Stripe Denim Satchels using fake serial numbers ending in 11192 and 11190. AFAIK Coach didn't use these numbers in any of their bags.
Any RECENT or current model bag with a serial prefix of M3U- is fake. A genuine bag with this number would have to have been been made in 2003.
M1K-6047 is often used on fakes and any bag with that number needs to be authenticated - in fact, any bag with a style number of -6047 that isn't a fabric Signature Satchel needs to be looked at
The counterfeiters also use many legitimate-looking serial numbers but on the wrong style bags or accessories, like:
-5659 which should only be on a Scribble Tote,
-6094 which should only be on a Signature Demi, and
-1417 which should only be on an East-West Leather duffle. These three numbers are special favorites with counterfeiters and have appeared on thousands of fakes.
Accessories with style #-5077 are fake, that number belongs to an Optic Bee Tote.
Bags beginning with K3H-, J8H-, and M4B- prefixes are possible counterfeits especially if the font of the digits of the serial number seems slightly different. Ask an expert to take a look
Fake numbers L4C-9941 and LAC-9941 and possibly other combinations ending in 9941 are showing up on a variety of classic-looking leather bags, most with badly wrinkled "stretch-marked" leather and a "Coach" imprint somewhere on the front of the bag, usually off-center. They'll sometimes have cell phone holders sewn on the side of the bag. Coach has NEVER sewn cell phone holders on the outside of its classic leather bags.
GAC- and GAG- prefixes have also turned up lately. ANY bag with just three LETTERS to the left of the dash is fake. Be careful not to mistake a Zero in the center position for the letter O though, all bags made in 2000 will have a zero in the center.
we've seen several Coaches with this serial number: P7B-4907
Not only are the bags NOT Sonoma Small Bucket Zips, but the first digit "P" is completely wrong and would never be used on ANY Coach. Any bag with this serial number is counterfeit.
Fakes are also showing up with the # J4N-4082 which belongs ONLY to an all-leather Soho Bag from 1994.
D2J-6068 is turning up on fakes recently
J6D-9033 is ALWAYS fake - it's showing up mostly on fake Ergos.
M4S-7414 has shown up on a couple of fakes that aren't Mercers. Bags with this number Need to be looked at by a Coach expert.
These serial numbers belong to genuine styles but often show up in fakes. Always check to be sure the style matches the bag and that there are no "red flags":
J3J-6818 - Should be a Soho mini sig flap bag
B3K-7022 - It should be a small denim signature pouch with red stripes center front, but the authentic version is rarely seen.
MIK-6047 - This serial number (often with an invalid prefix) is commonly seen on a variety of different style fakes but only belongs in a genuine Signature Satchel.
Styles number -40725 has been showing up in fake bags and Swingpacks
Style number -1202 and other numbers from 1000 to 1300 should NEVER be in a bag or accessory and always indicate a fake. Those low 1000s numbers were only used for stationary items like planner, address book and sketch pad refills
Any 'classic' leather bags with the # 0444-31(X) and heany vertical lines above and below the numbers is fake
More fake 'classic' leather Coaches are showing up with bad creeds and the bogus "overstamping lines" above and below the serial numbers like the above. The latest one is a fake light blue tote (always be careful with older bags in unusual colors, Coach's classic leather colors were pretty conservative so anything besides the usual black, brown, navy, mahogany, British Tan, dark green etc should be examined closely).
Also watch for these numbers - 0212-578 and 1212-578, all found so far have been fake.
Any bag (especially any in the Hippie Flap style) with a serial number of H6S-9135 should be referred to a qualified expert for authentication. The style number belongs only to a Leather Hippie Flap bag but the ones we've seen with this number are either the wrong fabric or have invalid code digits and badly-stamped creeds.
Also look VERY carefully at classic bags beginning with " H6M- " and with "Made in the United States" at the bottom of the creed, quite a few fakes seem to use this prefix.
And a lot of newer style Coaches are showing up with only a 5-digit number after the "No", either on the same line as the last words of the creed or by itself at the bottom of the patch - number 00138 is the most common. All these are fake. Coach serial numbers will NEVER have only five digits. Six-digit numbers also indicate a fake UNLESS the bag or travel item was made for and clearly marked as being part of Coach's 1996 Atlanta Olympic Games collection.
Serial numbers beginning with the letters " I " or with N thru Z are not valid Coach numbers and are almost certainly fake but there ARE a few very rare exceptions. Ask an expert
Coaches with a thick paper tag (usually dark gray or silver) that says "Made In Italy" or "Made In USA" are fakes.
Any bag with a tag or patch that says "Sports Coach" is NOT a genuine Coach
.................................................................
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Fakes List, Part 2
A bit off the subject, but this can't be said often enough - THE BRAND OF ZIPPER ON A BAG OR ACCESSORY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT THE ITEM IS AUTHENTIC. Coach has used at least 5 different brands of zipper including TALON, ECLAIR, RISI, YKK and ZIPLON. Any fakes manufacturer can buy and use real YKK zippers in their fakes, or they can buy FAKE YKK zippers.
JUst because a zipper is stamped YKK that DOES NOT PROVE THE BAG IS GENUINE. AND HAVING A ZIPPER FROM A DIFFERENT MANUFACTURER DOESN'T PROVE THE BAG IS FAKE.
The copycats who keep repeating that YKK nonsense in their useless online "Authenticity Guides" should be ignored along with all the other outdated or just plain WRONG advice they spew.
...................................................................
Please remember, this is NOT a complete list of all fake serial numbers. New examples turn up constantly, and many fakes have serials that actually belong the the style the fake bag is copying. And bags made before 1994 DON'T have the Coach style number as part of the serial number - DON'T try to use the last 3 or 4 digits for authentication!
Also remember, just because a Coach item seems to have the right style number, or looks just like the picture from Coach's website, or the C's line up correctly, OR IT HAS YKK ZIPPERS, that DOESN"T mean it's genuine.
And just because you haven't seen it before, or don't like it, or think that "Coach couldn't possibly have made something that ugly" doesn't mean it's fake.
A bit off the subject, but this can't be said often enough - THE BRAND OF ZIPPER ON A BAG OR ACCESSORY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHETHER OR NOT THE ITEM IS AUTHENTIC. Coach has used at least 5 different brands of zipper including TALON, ECLAIR, RISI, YKK and ZIPLON. Any fakes manufacturer can buy and use real YKK zippers in their fakes, or they can buy FAKE YKK zippers.
JUst because a zipper is stamped YKK that DOES NOT PROVE THE BAG IS GENUINE. AND HAVING A ZIPPER FROM A DIFFERENT MANUFACTURER DOESN'T PROVE THE BAG IS FAKE.
The copycats who keep repeating that YKK nonsense in their useless online "Authenticity Guides" should be ignored along with all the other outdated or just plain WRONG advice they spew.
...................................................................
Please remember, this is NOT a complete list of all fake serial numbers. New examples turn up constantly, and many fakes have serials that actually belong the the style the fake bag is copying. And bags made before 1994 DON'T have the Coach style number as part of the serial number - DON'T try to use the last 3 or 4 digits for authentication!
Also remember, just because a Coach item seems to have the right style number, or looks just like the picture from Coach's website, or the C's line up correctly, OR IT HAS YKK ZIPPERS, that DOESN"T mean it's genuine.
And just because you haven't seen it before, or don't like it, or think that "Coach couldn't possibly have made something that ugly" doesn't mean it's fake.
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A new fake number has just turned up - bags with this number are ALWAYS fake :
A8M-4896
It's shown up on at least 3 different style bags so far, all classic-style leather bags. Style numbers in the 48xx range would probably only have been used for wallets and small accessory bags and clutches.
A8M-4896
It's shown up on at least 3 different style bags so far, all classic-style leather bags. Style numbers in the 48xx range would probably only have been used for wallets and small accessory bags and clutches.