answers to AUTHENTICITY questions!!!

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Hello!

I was looking at this Companion Flap https://shopgoodwill.com/item/185067052, came to TPF to have a look at other authentications for bags with a JOC prefix, and found this authentication request from 2018 that looks like it was deemed too close to call: Willis - J0C-9927

The Goodwill bag has an N stamp (I read about them but have never seen one), which I appreciate can be faked like everything else. The N aside, the Goodwill bag not only has the same base on the J and slightly off centre COACH noted by Hyacinth, but also has the same bobble in the bottom right corner of the creed frame.

I guess this is more of an observation than a question. Perhaps this was a stamping mechanism error that was corrected in later months, like that series of C Plant creeds with upside down Ks noted by Hyacinth. Perhaps it was a very consistent counterfeiter.

I posted here because I'm not interested in buying the bag and would like to nerd out with some more Coach education. Please share your insight and thank you for your time!

Companion Flap - JOC-9076.jpg
 
Hello!

I was looking at this Companion Flap https://shopgoodwill.com/item/185067052, came to TPF to have a look at other authentications for bags with a JOC prefix, and found this authentication request from 2018 that looks like it was deemed too close to call: Willis - J0C-9927

The Goodwill bag has an N stamp (I read about them but have never seen one), which I appreciate can be faked like everything else. The N aside, the Goodwill bag not only has the same base on the J and slightly off centre COACH noted by Hyacinth, but also has the same bobble in the bottom right corner of the creed frame.

I guess this is more of an observation than a question. Perhaps this was a stamping mechanism error that was corrected in later months, like that series of C Plant creeds with upside down Ks noted by Hyacinth. Perhaps it was a very consistent counterfeiter.

I posted here because I'm not interested in buying the bag and would like to nerd out with some more Coach education. Please share your insight and thank you for your time!

View attachment 5903750
I'm not sure what your question is but if you're asking if the Goodwill listing is for an authentic bag, it is.
 
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Hello everyone!

I hope the holiday season was good to all! :blush:

This authenticated Swinger has a double-strand strap like the Basic Bag; the image for the Swinger in the 1987 Holiday catalogue shows a single flat strap. The seller's listing specifically mentions the pull-tab was replaced but doesn't mention a replacement strap.

Were there two different pre-1994 strap iterations? Wisdom appreciated at your earliest convenience. Many thanks!
 
Hello everyone!

I hope the holiday season was good to all! :blush:

This authenticated Swinger has a double-strand strap like the Basic Bag; the image for the Swinger in the 1987 Holiday catalogue shows a single flat strap. The seller's listing specifically mentions the pull-tab was replaced but doesn't mention a replacement strap.

Were there two different pre-1994 strap iterations? Wisdom appreciated at your earliest convenience. Many thanks!

Hello everyone!

I hope the holiday season was good to all! :blush:

This authenticated Swinger has a double-strand strap like the Basic Bag; the image for the Swinger in the 1987 Holiday catalogue shows a single flat strap. The seller's listing specifically mentions the pull-tab was replaced but doesn't mention a replacement strap.

Were there two different pre-1994 strap iterations? Wisdom appreciated at your earliest convenience. Many thanks!

It looks like the strap and some hardware were replaced. Maybe the seller didn't realize it. We never use straps as primary proof of authenticity because they can be, and often have been, changed.

I compared a number of very small details of your creed and serial number with what Im very sure is a creed from another style, a Paris Bag made around 1989 also from the Lightweight line and which has several of what we call "overstamping marks" right above and below parts of the serial number which are exactly what they should be. Both bags were stamped by exactly the same stamping mechanism, yours just didn't have quite enough pressure put on it to leave overstamping marks. Same mechanism, same plant, approximately the same time period. This is from the Paris Bag:

1989_4100-Paris Bag_creed-a.jpg

and this is from yours, click on the thumbnail to enlarge:

1989_approx-Swinger_611-8908_a.jpg
 
It looks like the strap and some hardware were replaced. Maybe the seller didn't realize it. We never use straps as primary proof of authenticity because they can be, and often have been, changed.
Thank you for the detailed response and creed sample - greatly appreciated!

You, BB and Whateve have taught us well here and I know better than to use straps and hardware as indicators in either direction.

A couple of minutes after I posted this I came back and posted an amendment that I must not have saved properly. I discovered in the 1989 Spring Preview catalogue that the Swinger came in a standard size, style 4040, and a small size with style number 4080; the small had the double-strand strap. A slight different vibe and a very, very cool decision from Coach.

So much to learn...

Thanks again!
 
Hello everyone!

I hope the holiday season was good to all! :blush:

This authenticated Swinger has a double-strand strap like the Basic Bag; the image for the Swinger in the 1987 Holiday catalogue shows a single flat strap. The seller's listing specifically mentions the pull-tab was replaced but doesn't mention a replacement strap.

Were there two different pre-1994 strap iterations? Wisdom appreciated at your earliest convenience. Many thanks!
There were two sizes of swinger. The smaller one had a double strap. 4080_Swinger Small-1989 Spring Preview w 4040-a.jpg
 
In the early aughts, Legacy East, Legacy West, and Legacy North/South bag styles were added to the Legacy collection. On Wayback depending on the year, all are listed under Legacy or broken out into Legacy and Legacy West, with some bags appearing in both categories.

I know the direction sometimes references a bag's vertical or horizontal orientation. Was there any distinction or significance to a bag being categorized as "Legacy East", etc.? From what I can see, Legacy styles are classic styles; some East and West styles have different strap and hardware styles.

This evolution interests me. Insight welcome with thanks!
 
Hello everyone,

While looking around at various resale sights I came across a purse that had a stamp, like donated, imperfect, etc., only this one started with either SC or SO; the rest of the word was cut out of the frame.

I don't have anything in my notes about this stamp and don't recall seeing anything here. Anyone with intel, please share.

Thanks for reading!

Mystery stamp.PNG
 
Hello everyone,

While looking around at various resale sights I came across a purse that had a stamp, like donated, imperfect, etc., only this one started with either SC or SO; the rest of the word was cut out of the frame.

I don't have anything in my notes about this stamp and don't recall seeing anything here. Anyone with intel, please share.

Thanks for reading!

View attachment 5920403

It was PROBABLY stamped by Coach, but we do NOT advise buying Coaches that don't include complete creed and serial photos. Those 2 details are much more important than stamps from outside the creed because they were actually made AT THE FACTORY if the bag is genuine. Embossed or inked stamps could have been added by anyone.
 
It was PROBABLY stamped by Coach, but we do NOT advise buying Coaches that don't include complete creed and serial photos. Those 2 details are much more important than stamps from outside the creed because they were actually made AT THE FACTORY if the bag is genuine. Embossed or inked stamps could have been added by anyone.


Of course! I'm sorry - I think I may have misled you with my post since I wasn't interested in buying the bag and simply wanted to add to my personal notes on stamps and markings. I'm a big nerd and love learning in general; this type of knowledge makes my brain smile, for lack of a better term. I tend to nice details and the stamp caught my eye in the upper right. I was hoping to confirm the stamped word, if known, since I've seen examples of other stamps and markings in various threads.

Thank you, as always, for your time and knowledge!
 
Hello everyone,

While looking around at various resale sights I came across a purse that had a stamp, like donated, imperfect, etc., only this one started with either SC or SO; the rest of the word was cut out of the frame.

I don't have anything in my notes about this stamp and don't recall seeing anything here. Anyone with intel, please share.

Thanks for reading!

View attachment 5920403
I think it could be upside down and be ES, which is employee sale.
 
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(note: if there is something i missed, or that needs to be elaborated on, please correct me!)

Alright, I figured we could use a thread to condense our knowledge of how to determine a fake.

First, NO style is exempt from being faked. Please dont assume that, just because it is a new style, that it cannot be faked.

Second, as a generality, all-leather bags are not faked. They just are not cost efficient for the fakers. And you can usually tell real leather and the fake stuff when its on the entire bag (as opposed to trims, etc).


Now the little detailsfor signature.

The signature cs are ALWAYS symmetrical. If there is a seam down the middle of the bag, each side is an exact mirror image of the other side. *there is a SMALL exception for the mini signature pieces, but that is only a small difference.
The symmetry is usually the most reliable way to determine a fake signature bag.
authentic:
coach133.jpg


fake:
fake1.jpg


The double cs should touch, making what looks like a broken infinity sign. (it ends up being, basically, every other set of cs).
authentic:
coach139.jpg


The cs have a little hook to them. If theyre all completely a curve, its fake. (this goes for mini signature as well).

The signature is NEVER crooked or slanting. (I think there was one exception to this, that I know of, where it was at an angleI think it was a holiday bag?)

If you are looking at a signature stripe piece, the part below the stripe should continue the part that was cut off above. (so if you take away the stripe, the two parts will fit together as a perfect c).
authentic: Coach - SIGNATURE STRIPE REVERSIBLE TOTE


Other stuff

Check coach.com or the drilldown for pictures of how the bags are supposed to look. Familiarize yourself with authentic bags.

Its difficult to tell in auctions, but the hardware is NOT cheap and light. It is substantial and has weight to it. The hardware is usually stamped, but that varies with each bag.

When looking at patchwork bags, there is NO variation. If there is supposed to be a pink patch by the handle, it is ALWAYS supposed to be there. They are not individual patchworks.

Hangtags match the leather on the bag (ie, no vachetta and a red hangtag). Just having a hangtag is NOT proof of authenticity. These are very easy to swipeand you can easily get replacements from coach.
authentic:
coach134.jpg


There are some bags that do not have leather hangtags, but are metal. These are NOT cheap feeling, either. It isnt enough to determine authenticity by just looking at a hangtag.
authentic:
coach143.jpg


The stitching is even and neat. Coach does NOT make sloppy bags with uneven stitching or send out sloppily made bags.

Dustbags come in two main looks. The outlet bag is white with red lettering, while the full-price one is brown with red lettering. Both say COACH est. 1941 and have a red drawstring. (It is notable that the outlet bags are much thinner than the ones you get at a full-price store). There are special edition dustbags out there for certain bags, but they do NOT look cheap.
authentic:
coach142.jpg



All BAGS have a serial number. Smaller items, like wristlets, do not. the creed is never crooked and the words are always spaced evenly.
authentic:
coach135.jpg


authentic:
coach137.jpg


Signature bags do NOT have signature linings.

Coach does indeed have outlets (bags purchased there will have factory tags- and, usually, the bullseye stamp on the creed or somewhere else). These are NOT seconds- they are the same quality as full-price stores. If a seller is claiming to sell seconds, or that they were purchased wholesale, it's a 99.9% chance they are fake.

Factory stores do sell bags that are occasionally a bit beat up (like floor models), but these are at a greater discount. As a whole, these are not available often.


The auction itself

If you are looking on ioffer, just assume it's fake. While there ARE authentic bags there, the fakes outnumber them BIG TIME!

Look at the price. Is it a BIN for less than $100 on a brand new bag? Chances are its fake (or someone is pretty desperate for money, but thats doubtful!)

Is it a one day only auction? Chances are its a fake.

How is the sellers feedback? Do they have negatives for selling fakes?

How are the pictures? If they are blurry, not detailed, or stock pictures, be cautious. Ask the seller for additional, clear pictures- if they do not respond, its best to stay away.

Are there large quantities of the bag/wallet/key fob available? Coach (full-price and factory) usually limit quantities- so the chance of a seller having 40 of the same bag is pretty unlikely.

As always, if you are not sure, PLEASE post in our AUTHENTICATE THIS! sticky at the top of the page. Better to be safe than sorry!!!

(note: if there is something i missed, or that needs to be elaborated on, please correct me!)

Alright, I figured we could use a thread to condense our knowledge of how to determine a fake.

First, NO style is exempt from being faked. Please dont assume that, just because it is a new style, that it cannot be faked.

Second, as a generality, all-leather bags are not faked. They just are not cost efficient for the fakers. And you can usually tell real leather and the fake stuff when its on the entire bag (as opposed to trims, etc).


Now the little detailsfor signature.

The signature cs are ALWAYS symmetrical. If there is a seam down the middle of the bag, each side is an exact mirror image of the other side. *there is a SMALL exception for the mini signature pieces, but that is only a small difference.
The symmetry is usually the most reliable way to determine a fake signature bag.
authentic:
coach133.jpg


fake:
fake1.jpg


The double cs should touch, making what looks like a broken infinity sign. (it ends up being, basically, every other set of cs).
authentic:
coach139.jpg


The cs have a little hook to them. If theyre all completely a curve, its fake. (this goes for mini signature as well).

The signature is NEVER crooked or slanting. (I think there was one exception to this, that I know of, where it was at an angleI think it was a holiday bag?)

If you are looking at a signature stripe piece, the part below the stripe should continue the part that was cut off above. (so if you take away the stripe, the two parts will fit together as a perfect c).
authentic: Coach - SIGNATURE STRIPE REVERSIBLE TOTE


Other stuff

Check coach.com or the drilldown for pictures of how the bags are supposed to look. Familiarize yourself with authentic bags.

Its difficult to tell in auctions, but the hardware is NOT cheap and light. It is substantial and has weight to it. The hardware is usually stamped, but that varies with each bag.

When looking at patchwork bags, there is NO variation. If there is supposed to be a pink patch by the handle, it is ALWAYS supposed to be there. They are not individual patchworks.

Hangtags match the leather on the bag (ie, no vachetta and a red hangtag). Just having a hangtag is NOT proof of authenticity. These are very easy to swipeand you can easily get replacements from coach.
authentic:
coach134.jpg


There are some bags that do not have leather hangtags, but are metal. These are NOT cheap feeling, either. It isnt enough to determine authenticity by just looking at a hangtag.
authentic:
coach143.jpg


The stitching is even and neat. Coach does NOT make sloppy bags with uneven stitching or send out sloppily made bags.

Dustbags come in two main looks. The outlet bag is white with red lettering, while the full-price one is brown with red lettering. Both say COACH est. 1941 and have a red drawstring. (It is notable that the outlet bags are much thinner than the ones you get at a full-price store). There are special edition dustbags out there for certain bags, but they do NOT look cheap.
authentic:
coach142.jpg



All BAGS have a serial number. Smaller items, like wristlets, do not. the creed is never crooked and the words are always spaced evenly.
authentic:
coach135.jpg


authentic:
coach137.jpg


Signature bags do NOT have signature linings.

Coach does indeed have outlets (bags purchased there will have factory tags- and, usually, the bullseye stamp on the creed or somewhere else). These are NOT seconds- they are the same quality as full-price stores. If a seller is claiming to sell seconds, or that they were purchased wholesale, it's a 99.9% chance they are fake.

Factory stores do sell bags that are occasionally a bit beat up (like floor models), but these are at a greater discount. As a whole, these are not available often.


The auction itself

If you are looking on ioffer, just assume it's fake. While there ARE authentic bags there, the fakes outnumber them BIG TIME!

Look at the price. Is it a BIN for less than $100 on a brand new bag? Chances are its fake (or someone is pretty desperate for money, but thats doubtful!)

Is it a one day only auction? Chances are its a fake.

How is the sellers feedback? Do they have negatives for selling fakes?

How are the pictures? If they are blurry, not detailed, or stock pictures, be cautious. Ask the seller for additional, clear pictures- if they do not respond, its best to stay away.

Are there large quantities of the bag/wallet/key fob available? Coach (full-price and factory) usually limit quantities- so the chance of a seller having 40 of the same bag is pretty unlikely.

As always, if you are not sure, PLEASE post in our AUTHENTICATE THIS! sticky at the top of the page. Better to be safe than sorry!!!
Thank you 🙏🏽
 
Thank you 🙏🏽
@star1a

The post you quoted (and may presumably trust) is a 17-year old post and has inaccuracies that were incorrect at the time of posting and some "rules" that used to apply may no longer apply.

If you have questions about authenticity, please verify on the Authenticate this Coach thread or check out more recent posts on this thread.


Some examples of inaccuracies and/or updates to "rules:"

The 2007 post states "The signature cs are ALWAYS symmetrical. If there is a seam down the middle of the bag, each side is an exact mirror image of the other side."

The following example is style 10482 and is NOT the only style that is an exception to the "rule:"
10482 laced studded hobo front - centered and matched (1).jpg10482 laced studded hobo back - uncentered and unmatched (1).jpg


The 2007 post states: "The cs have a little hook to them. If theyre all completely a curve, its fake. (this goes for mini signature as well)."

Op Art signature pattern does NOT have serifs (the "hook" referred to in the 2007 post:
1705983860401.jpeg 1705983888236.jpeg


The 2007 post states: "The signature is NEVER crooked or slanting."

The following is a picture from an ebay listing showing an AUTHENTIC Bias print shearling duffle, style 8K47:
1705984236161.png
 
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Hello All! In need of some advice here...

Is it common for the label to peel/scratch off in such a manner?
No signs of any similar scratches in other parts of this bag.
 

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