Why Goldman Sachs Believes Coach's (COH) Turnaround Is Alienating Consumers

[whateve]

Legacy duffle has been around for a bit now I believe but I would LOVE to see seasonal colors! I'd have a very good time collecting those

It was made in 2012, and possibly early 2013, then it went to the outlet. There were, I think, 4 separate releases of new colors. They made some new ones in old colors, like the marine, for the outlet, but that's it. If Coach continues the way they have been, it will never be sold in FP stores again.

Although I have heard a rumor that they might be coming out with new ones for Christmas. That would be interesting, because I thought that all the new styles sold in FP stores were supposed to be Vevers creations.

 

[abwd]

If Coach wants to be like the designer brands, they should make the Dakotah a lasting style. It would make more sense to make a limited quantity every year, maybe changing the colors, and try to establish it as an iconic Coach look, but never selling at the outlets.

In the past, they had the classics available year after year, but they weren't promoted. Most buyers couldn't see them in the stores so I bet they didn't sell well. By contrast, if you go into an LV store, there will be a section for the new stuff, but the basic designs they've made for years are a major part of the store and are the best selling products. I don't see any designer brand that doesn't have some of the same styles year after year as a major part of their product line. Coach doesn't do this, and I think that is one of the things that is keeping them from becoming a designer label. How can you be iconic if you don't keep any style around long enough to become a tradition?

Right with you on this. Traditional and iconic are not established with switching up every design every couple of months. I guess that would count as iconic if you had the life span of a flea, but certainly not for humans!!

 

[Nymeria1]

If Coach wants to be like the designer brands, they should make the Dakotah a lasting style. It would make more sense to make a limited quantity every year, maybe changing the colors, and try to establish it as an iconic Coach look, but never selling at the outlets.

In the past, they had the classics available year after year, but they weren't promoted. Most buyers couldn't see them in the stores so I bet they didn't sell well. By contrast, if you go into an LV store, there will be a section for the new stuff, but the basic designs they've made for years are a major part of the store and are the best selling products. I don't see any designer brand that doesn't have some of the same styles year after year as a major part of their product line. Coach doesn't do this, and I think that is one of the things that is keeping them from becoming a designer label. How can you be iconic if you don't keep any style around long enough to become a tradition?

You are so RIGHT on this! One of my biggest pet peeves about Coach is that they Don't keep a favorite/loved style of bag around long enough. The beloved Phoebe bag is only one example. With Coach, it's get a bag while you can because it will soon be GONE for good. What's wrong with the old adage, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" Wake up, Coach! :shame:

 

[carinas]

It seems like a poor marketing strategy to not advertise which bags are limited edition. In the past, I've been told that there were only a few of some style left in JAX, then a month after I bought one of the supposedly last few, there were 100s at the outlets and on FOS. So I don't know if I would believe Coach if they said it was a limited edition, unless it was numbered like the Snoopy bags. Even then, Coach has been known to remake the same style later on, like all the Lindseys on FOS. And that darn hula dancer fob I paid full price for - there seems to be an endless supply - it's been on FOS off and on for over a year.

I still have the perception that even if I miss out on something like the teal Dakotah, there will be other bags in teal or other Dakotahs that will be discounted somewhere.

Coach should hire you!

 

[whateve]

Coach should hire you!

I regret that I didn't major in marketing! I think I would have loved a career in it.

 

[CoachCruiser]

You are so RIGHT on this! One of my biggest pet peeves about Coach is that they Don't keep a favorite/loved style of bag around long enough. The beloved Phoebe bag is only one example. With Coach, it's get a bag while you can because it will soon be GONE for good. What's wrong with the old adage, "If it ain't broke, why fix it?" Wake up, Coach! :shame:

Awesome! Totally agree, Nymeria!!

 

[baglady39]

I hate to say this, but there are very few Coach bags that hold their value. If that really is your expectation with Coach you will be disappointed time and time again.



This! In a few months there will be another hot new bag and anything that is left will be relegated to the discount shelf. CoachHAVE to control their production levels if they are ever going to overcome this.

Yep!! That is for sure. I know you've been around here a long time, and I'm sure you remember bags like the oil slick Sabrina, for ex? While there was some controversy on exactly how many of those were produced, we do know it was a fashion item, and those items were usually limited to 50 pieces or less...sold only in fashion and/or flagship stores. I barely got the first Sabrina in the fp store on PCE. A lot of ladies tried to order it and had their orders cancelled. I think this is a key example of where the forum can sell out a style if it's very limited production (even amounts higher than this), but anyway, I don't ever recall anyone reporting one of these at the outlets. I bought one of mine later at a consignment store. This is a case where like the nubuck Rhyder, they hit it with a low amount, and it sold out. For once in their existence, they didn't make more of this Sabrina, and it has truly remained a collectible piece. Of course saying that probably means I've just jinxed that bag!

But I guess it also becomes a question of fewer sales at higher price vs volume sales and which one or combo turns the best profit. I'm going to guess that they really need the volume sales since most people I have ever encountered look at me strangely when I tell them what the retail price is for some of the bags I have, lol. I believe their market is their $400 and under range, and now those are all sitting at full price with little to no traffic in their stores because people don't want to pay the price increases (so they are waiting out the sales...just like always). Honestly, though, I do think that Coach has lost sight of their true core customer. In fact, I get the impression they don't even want that customer. They want the customer that will spend upwards to $1k and over on their products.

The thing is, to a lot of people, if you are going to spend a lot on a bag, it's not going to be Coach. I have always felt like I'm one of the exceptions, and that point has been hammered to me many times by many people over the years. I buy what I like, and it truly does NOT matter to me (in most cases) what the brand is, but I do need to feel that it retains a little value just because as my collection increases, at some point I have to get rid of something to bring in the new. But over the years, a lot of people ask me why I buy the flagship bags when I could go buy LV or something else if I just saved that money and put it toward something else. There is a SA at Nordstrom who I dearly love, and she is the best in the business (can't say enough nice about her!), but she has a real attitude about this brand and will encourage you to buy something, ANYTHING else higher end, especially if you're paying near $1k for a bag. You know, I used to have a lot of LV bags but sold off most of them only because I truly preferred the other bags I had, and I had to make space. Some things had to go. Most of the bags I've ever kept were Coach, but then over the last year or two, I got to the point where I don't really care much about Coach either...just the true oldies but goodies from the years I loved (~2006-2008). I don't see myself ever parting with most of those, but with everything we've talked about, and I know you totally get it , it will be a long time before I believe any of Coach's resolutions and that they will stick to them. I mean a LONG time, lol! That's even if it appears to be working for 6 months to a year. I know I sound like Negative Nancy, and I apologize to everyone here for my negative attitude, but I have followed them for 10 yrs with their ever-changing strategies that have never apparently worked and never lasted more than a few months before they reverted back or went off the deep end again. Some stints were very similar to the current approach except that they still did a few PCEs and they still did send to outlets but with some delay. New people running the show now?? Well, ok, maybe that might help....I guess??? Sorry.... just not feeling this plan, especially in an economy where even some of the higher end liquidator stores like TJ Maxx have gone toward largely cheaper accessories (one of my local stores used to be a runway store). A lot of the higher priced items still end up on clearance. Not to mention the dept store sales have gone crazy and early...even compared to last fall. To me, Coach has bad timing and is asking a lot.

I think I still keep coming on this thread to whine because I am really shocked they would change so many variables at once in this new strategy, especially when their past track record speaks for itself. Admittedly, I'm certainly not an expert and know nothing- just a bag ho!!

 

[Esquared72]

I agree with you on this. Why the Classics are not sold in all stores and promoted, along with other top selling designs over the years (like bringing back Sophia, Phoebe, etc) and just switching them up with new seasonal colors, along with new designs from time to time is beyond me.

This has long been a frustration for me...I try to get on board with a style that seems classic and timeless only to find that it's already left the station.

They could have classic styles in classic colors each season (black, saddle, parchment) that never go to outlet and then seasonal colors that would/could go to SAS or outlet. I know other contemporary and premier designers do this.

 

[ltbag]

Yep!! That is for sure. I know you've been around here a long time, and I'm sure you remember bags like the oil slick Sabrina, for ex? While there was some controversy on exactly how many of those were produced, we do know it was a fashion item, and those items were usually limited to 50 pieces or less...sold only in fashion and/or flagship stores. I barely got the first Sabrina in the fp store on PCE. A lot of ladies tried to order it and had their orders cancelled. I think this is a key example of where the forum can sell out a style if it's very limited production (even amounts higher than this), but anyway, I don't ever recall anyone reporting one of these at the outlets. I bought one of mine later at a consignment store. This is a case where like the nubuck Rhyder, they hit it with a low amount, and it sold out. For once in their existence, they didn't make more of this Sabrina, and it has truly remained a collectible piece. Of course saying that probably means I've just jinxed that bag!

But I guess it also becomes a question of fewer sales at higher price vs volume sales and which one or combo turns the best profit. I'm going to guess that they really need the volume sales since most people I have ever encountered look at me strangely when I tell them what the retail price is for some of the bags I have, lol. I believe their market is their $400 and under range, and now those are all sitting at full price with little to no traffic in their stores because people don't want to pay the price increases (so they are waiting out the sales...just like always). Honestly, though, I do think that Coach has lost sight of their true core customer. In fact, I get the impression they don't even want that customer. They want the customer that will spend upwards to $1k and over on their products.

The thing is, to a lot of people, if you are going to spend a lot on a bag, it's not going to be Coach. I have always felt like I'm one of the exceptions, and that point has been hammered to me many times by many people over the years. I buy what I like, and it truly does NOT matter to me (in most cases) what the brand is, but I do need to feel that it retains a little value just because as my collection increases, at some point I have to get rid of something to bring in the new. But over the years, a lot of people ask me why I buy the flagship bags when I could go buy LV or something else if I just saved that money and put it toward something else. There is a SA at Nordstrom who I dearly love, and she is the best in the business (can't say enough nice about her!), but she has a real attitude about this brand and will encourage you to buy something, ANYTHING else higher end, especially if you're paying near $1k for a bag. You know, I used to have a lot of LV bags but sold off most of them only because I truly preferred the other bags I had, and I had to make space. Some things had to go. Most of the bags I've ever kept were Coach, but then over the last year or two, I got to the point where I don't really care much about Coach either...just the true oldies but goodies from the years I loved (~2006-2008). I don't see myself ever parting with most of those, but with everything we've talked about, and I know you totally get it , it will be a long time before I believe any of Coach's resolutions and that they will stick to them. I mean a LONG time, lol! That's even if it appears to be working for 6 months to a year. I know I sound like Negative Nancy, and I apologize to everyone here for my negative attitude, but I have followed them for 10 yrs with their ever-changing strategies that have never apparently worked and never lasted more than a few months before they reverted back or went off the deep end again. Some stints were very similar to the current approach except that they still did a few PCEs and they still did send to outlets but with some delay. New people running the show now?? Well, ok, maybe that might help....I guess??? Sorry.... just not feeling this plan, especially in an economy where even some of the higher end liquidator stores like TJ Maxx have gone toward largely cheaper accessories (one of my local stores used to be a runway store). A lot of the higher priced items still end up on clearance. Not to mention the dept store sales have gone crazy and early...even compared to last fall. To me, Coach has bad timing and is asking a lot.

I think I still keep coming on this thread to whine because I am really shocked they would change so many variables at once in this new strategy, especially when their past track record speaks for itself. Admittedly, I'm certainly not an expert and know nothing- just a bag ho!!

I come to this thread to hear the insights from people like you who have watched Coach go up and down over the years and feel the same dismay and frustration i do.

In the relatively recent glory years of coach that you mention in your post I was buying premier brands mostly balenciaga. I did not find coach until the Kristin line came out and was shocked when they killed it so soon. I had no experience with a company killing a popular line for no reason

I also had no experience with a company undercutting its own full price sales with its outlets. No other brands have as much full price merchandise from recent floor sets at their outlets.

That being said the quality and design of premier bags is going downhill too. Cheaper leather is being used and less colors and styles are being produced. I think the whole industry has changed not just coach. But coaches problem is that they come across as more confused and clueless lol.

 

[lizmil]

I understand about the $1000 price point. I just bought the large patchwork Borough off ebay, wanted it but wasn't willing to pay FP. Got it at half off. That was a stretch for me, I have a good sized Coach collection, almost all FP bags purchased at outlet or ebay. I start to squeak when the ticket goes above $400 and I'd say most of the bags I did buy in that price range ended up getting returned. One exception the dragonfly duffle, which is still never carried BNWT.

If I'd had to pay FP or even 25% off on the Borough I wouldn't have done it.

 

[whateve]

I understand about the $1000 price point. I just bought the large patchwork Borough off ebay, wanted it but wasn't willing to pay FP. Got it at half off. That was a stretch for me, I have a good sized Coach collection, almost all FP bags purchased at outlet or ebay. I start to squeak when the ticket goes above $400 and I'd say most of the bags I did buy in that price range ended up getting returned. One exception the dragonfly duffle, which is still never carried BNWT.

If I'd had to pay FP or even 25% off on the Borough I wouldn't have done it.

My squeaking starts around $400 too. In the past I could buy a $500 bag with a PCE and keep it in a comfortable zone. When they had the 30% coupon, I bought both the dragonfly and a Carrie. I guess because they were more expensive, it didn't take me long to realize that if I wasn't comfortable carrying them, they had to go back. I haven't regretted it for a moment.

At this point, my collection is too big. The only way I can justify a new bag is to get rid of an old one. It looks like nobody is getting much on ebay these days and I don't want the hassle of having to sell at a huge loss. I'd lose the most trying to sell the bags I bought with PCE so it is hard for me to part with them even if they aren't my favorites.

That patchwork Borough is gorgeous! If they had made that patchwork on a style/size I could carry, I would have paid PCE for it. That's my other peeve - all the really elaborate designs are only done on very large bags. I guess they think that since they have to charge more for them, the customer would balk more if the bags were smaller.

 

[lizmil]

My squeaking starts around $400 too. In the past I could buy a $500 bag with a PCE and keep it in a comfortable zone. When they had the 30% coupon, I bought both the dragonfly and a Carrie. I guess because they were more expensive, it didn't take me long to realize that if I wasn't comfortable carrying them, they had to go back. I haven't regretted it for a moment.

At this point, my collection is too big. The only way I can justify a new bag is to get rid of an old one. It looks like nobody is getting much on ebay these days and I don't want the hassle of having to sell at a huge loss. I'd lose the most trying to sell the bags I bought with PCE so it is hard for me to part with them even if they aren't my favorites.

That patchwork Borough is gorgeous! If they had made that patchwork on a style/size I could carry, I would have paid PCE for it. That's my other peeve - all the really elaborate designs are only done on very large bags. I guess they think that since they have to charge more for them, the customer would balk more if the bags were smaller.

Yeah I almost didn't buy the Borough because of the size. I have the medium Borough in other colors but that patchwork is so me. Unfortunately they didn't make the patchwork in the smaller size. I'd bought the clutch style but the clutch wasn't realistic for me.

 

[whateve]

Yeah I almost didn't buy the Borough because of the size. I have the medium Borough in other colors but that patchwork is so me. Unfortunately they didn't make the patchwork in the smaller size. I'd bought the clutch style but the clutch wasn't realistic for me.

I can't do clutches either. I also loved the blue stripe they did in the men's stuff. Someone got a flat case of it and used it as a folded clutch. I tried that out in the store but it didn't work for me. If they had done either of these in any kind of a regular sized bag, I would have been all over them.

 

[Luv2Shop1]

At this point, my collection is too big. The only way I can justify a new bag is to get rid of an old one. It looks like nobody is getting much on ebay these days and I don't want the hassle of having to sell at a huge loss.

I'm with you on this one!

I have way too many bags to be buying...so I am trying to slow down. In a way Coach has done me a favor by discontinuing PCE.

And you are right about ebay...unless it's a unique bag, there's not much of a market right now. I have some, though, that are doing me no good sitting in my closet, though, so I am going to list and see what happens.

 

[baglady39]

I come to this thread to hear the insights from people like you who have watched Coach go up and down over the years and feel the same dismay and frustration i do.

In the relatively recent glory years of coach that you mention in your post I was buying premier brands mostly balenciaga. I did not find coach until the Kristin line came out and was shocked when they killed it so soon. I had no experience with a company killing a popular line for no reason

I also had no experience with a company undercutting its own full price sales with its outlets. No other brands have as much full price merchandise from recent floor sets at their outlets.

That being said the quality and design of premier bags is going downhill too. Cheaper leather is being used and less colors and styles are being produced. I think the whole industry has changed not just coach. But coaches problem is that they come across as more confused and clueless lol.

You're absolutely right about Kristin! I thought it was a great line and bought many pieces from it! I got turned off when all of the sudden they abandoned it, and upper end bags like the haircalf Kristin were just sent automatically to the outlet at blowout prices. TBH, I got rid of a LOT of my Kristin after this. I bought most of mine on PCE. I think I kept the original $1k woven Sage bags like in the link below (there were 3 colors, and they later came out with Laila versions which I bought but got rid of). That's pretty much it other than a patent crossbody I've used quite a bit on trips, etc.

http://www.ladyandtheblog.com/2011/...es-the-kristen-woven-sage-satchel-from-coach/

You're also right in that you don't get near the bang for the buck like you used to a few years ago. I guess it's a combination of things, but it did get to a point where I looked at $800+ bags and couldn't rationalize even those on PCE when some of my earlier ones were nicer (at least to me). So slowly I stopped buying.

I got into Bal a while as well. I was first attracted in a very MAJOR way by the outremer color, and it kind of blew up a bit from there, lol! I haven't bought a Bbag in a while, though. I wonder what people think of Alexander Wang taking over the reins? I did look the other weekend at NM because I'm getting urge again for a bag, and I think I want a mini City or regular City, but so far the colors have not enticed me. I have been buying a bit of Alexander Wang's bags too since I (mostly) left Coach. I really like the Rocco/Rockie.

Yes, the colors and styles.... I think they did have to back off production, and taking fewer color risks and cutting back the number of styles I guess had to happen as well, but I don't want a whole wardrobe of black, and it seems the bags I like from SV's line are black or red. I love the red nubuck Rhyder, but I also just bought red currant and a black bag from the line, so I'm not sure I want other red or black bags. There are colors I like in the Rhyder 24, Crosby, and Edie, so perhaps I'll pick up some of those when they go on sale, which I think they will because I haven't seen the dept stores selling many of them (at least as of now). As for leather, I do think the Dakotah leather is nice, but the lining and how they are doing the creed now is a little disappointing to me, especially when I look at Legacy Thompson, Legacy, etc, from a few years ago. Maybe I'm just an old dog at this point!

Oh, and there is a Bal outlet at Woodbury Commons in NY. Don't know if there's another one, but I've never seen the popular bags there (although I haven't been in a while). Definitely not like Coach, MK, etc, though! I hate the ripping off of retail bags, especially from lines that were never supposed to go to the outlet (i.e. Legacy, Poppy, etc). Not only did they blow the retail leftovers out at the outlets, albeit a bit later than they do now (6 months-1yr), but they actually made knockoffs for the outlet (MFF). I will never ever forgive them for taking the fuchsia Bleecker St. LE Legacy Peyton that was a Legacy shop/gallery store item in limited production and making a knockoff for the outlet. I walked in the outlet and both bags were sitting side by side on the table. My husband tells this story in EVERY Coach store we go in, lol! The MFF had slightly lower quality leather, but you know, people were picking up the MFF version not realizing the LE was also sitting there. Same color, etc., just cheaper grade, so the LE version was a far better deal given that it was an $800 bag. That's just one example of buying a "limited edition that you HAD TO GET NOW or it would be sold out forever" that ended up being knocked off. These bags were lower production than SV line, and yet some still ended up at the outlet...as well as being remade...and during better economic times! Nope, not believing ANYTHING they say regarding "limited edition" or "limited production". You simply never know what they might do. Who knows...they might restock the nubuck Rhyder since it was a hit like the Anna Sui Dragonfly, but you're absolutely right...by then everyone will have moved on, and they will probably end up at the outlets. Unless they make firm changes and stop doing this kind of stuff, they will never succeed in keeping the customers that they seem to be looking for. BTW, I loved the Anna Sui bags so much I bought two of the fleur de lis because I was afraid I would ruin the first one...so one at PCE and one at full price (that one was $1k and the dragonfly $800)! I don't think I ever got the full price adjusted to PCE price either. Also PCE for dragonfly, and guess what ended up at the outlets after being restocked, taking the "limited" factor out of play?? I didn't look back because I loved the bags, and to this day, I have not returned the new one I haven't used, but once you have this happen year after year, you stop believing that anything will change despite their promises. This is why I have my "firm" one retail full price bag rule for fall. I'm actually loving the Nordies sales and price matching these days...for other brands.