Why Goldman Sachs Believes Coach's (COH) Turnaround Is Alienating Consumers

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The Gigi was amazing but crippling. To this day I have never carried anything so heavy!!! I had the evergreen which was more of a light blue/sea foam and was one of the most gorgeous bags I have ever owned. Unfortunately, the leather turned funky yellow a couple of years ago and I had to send her back.

It was probably for the best because she was a beast!!!!

I had heard people complain of the weight on these bags, The straw version was of this tote you have was heavy, and it was mostly STRAW! lol I would still get one, I would suffer through for the beauty of it :cool:
 
The Gigi was amazing but crippling. To this day I have never carried anything so heavy!!! I had the evergreen which was more of a light blue/sea foam and was one of the most gorgeous bags I have ever owned. Unfortunately, the leather turned funky yellow a couple of years ago and I had to send her back.

It was probably for the best because she was a beast!!!!
That's why the only Legacy I still have is Bridgit. She isn't as heavy as most since she is smaller.

A lot of lighter colors had that problem. I think that someone in the rehab thread worked on one. Either she got rid of the yellow or she redyed it, I can't remember which.
 
Since Coach got a new Creative Director and pushed out all these new designs, the bags got uglier and worse in quality. AND to top it off, the prices got marked up to double their original price range. Just a year or two ago, I was able to get a nice quality leather Coach satchel for $350 and a small crossbody for $150-$200. All of a sudden, these new bags that do not look remotely like the old classic lines are selling for $700-$1000. Coach is and always has been an accessible luxury brand. I'm not going to spend premium prices on a low-end luxury brand. If I have to fork out $1000, I'd rather pay a bit more and buy REAL premium designer bags like LV, Gucci and Prada.

Not only that, the Coach products on sale now have no coherence whatsoever. One line may feature studded rock-and-roll designs, another may look like Balenciaga bags, and another may look like the LV Neverfull tote. They are turning into a copy-cat brand just like Michael Kors...
 
I've only been on the forum since the beginning of the year but have been buying purses for years. It's been so interesting to read this thread because I've caught myself nodding in agreement with so many people along the way about Coach's strategy....I'm sure they paid a hefty sum to some management consulting firm or the other who told them that it would be smart to go upmarket but forgot that the outlets & midrange department store sales (at least in the US) are their primary revenue drivers.

As a customer I used to love to buy Coach but now have only kept one mini leather crossbody while moving on to other brands. And I used to really love Coach when I was younger! When I was in my teens/early 20s I had a powder blue wristlet with a daisy appliqué that I used as my primary wallet and as a clutch on a pretty much daily basis for several years until it was so well loved that it fell apart. I had a blue signature cross body in my early 20s that I wore everywhere (when signature was all the rage a decade ago) that I loved because it was different enough from all the other signatures on the street. Somehow along the way I sort of lost interest. Like many others I also "learned" never to buy full price & wait for discounts/outlet deals. And then I learned Coach moved its manufacturing to China which really killed it for me. Granted I know from business school that "made in...." means far less now than it used to since NAFTA & the EU trade agreements of the 1990s. But for some reason (maybe bc I'm American) it hurts coming from a New York company. Especially when you see companies like LV move production to CA in the same time period & sell bags that say "made in USA of imported materials" it feels like Coach isn't even trying. So why would I pay LV prices for a Coach?

Maybe bc I used to love Coach is why I'm still interested in reading up / cheering for what the brand used to be! But honestly I think the only Coach I would buy in the future are vintage pieces and not what they're presently offering.
 
I went to Woodbury Commons earlier this year, thinking I was going to get a lot of great deals on premium brands. You're right, there is nothing at the Bal outlet

The Coach outlet was so crowded I couldn't even get into the door. Coach wants to redefine themselves as a luxury brand, but if to do so would mean limiting the number of outlets and the merchandise in the outlets, I don't know if they would do it. The outlets are where they make the profits; I don't see how they could scale them back. With recent reports that they are closing many FP stores and converting others into outlets, it seems like they are more committed to the outlets than FP.

Yep, Woodbury Coach was always a zoo, lol! I remember I used to stand in line before it opened because there were too many people to be let in at once, and then once it opened, the employees would clap for you as you entered. It reminded me of the dining halls on cruise ships, lol! That is the only outlet I've seen where tons of people walk around rolling large suitcases, not because they are traveling, but because they want to be able to fit all their loot into something they can carry around! I hated it because people are so rude with them in stores, and I can't tell you how often I got my toes run over in the Coach outlet or I was tripped by them! :p It used to be a frenzy there, but then that outlet stopped carrying large amounts of good retail deletes, and I got bored...it's not a quick drive for me, and I would stay 2 days in a motel room while there just to be able to have enough time to shop at all the outlets (my husband thinks I'm crazy but secretly loves shopping), lol. I think Coach knew it had a reseller problem at that outlet and changed where they were shipping retails deletes for some outlets...at least that's what they told me. Part of it was their own fault for not enforcing the item limit policy (and I saw that happen many times). I haven't been back in a long time, though, so I'm not sure if it's changed again?

No, I don't think they will survive without the outlets. There was a manager that used to work for Coach at one of the retail locations I visited a lot, and he told me that the outlets were killing his store (they were just adding a closer outlet to that store at the same time he told me that), and they were doing it because the profits were so high for the outlets vs retail. He quoted a much higher % than what I've seen in news articles, but the point is they were already in trouble and Coach was compounding it...which they did because that's what was making the money, not the retail stores.

But again, I think Coach has lost sight of their true core customer. It's largely not someone who wants to spend $600+ on a Coach bag, and it's not someone who even wants to pay full price for most of their under $600 bags. Behavior modification- they've trained people for too long to want to shop sales for cheap items. It's a question of whether people can be retrained, but that's partially what I mean when I say it apparently didn't all work for Coach back when deletes were shifted 6 months to a year later, which wasn't bad for us retail folk, AND PCEs were not frequently done but just a few times per year. Sales were not so crazy anywhere like they are now everywhere! It all got to the point it is now where people can easily wait for blown out prices, so good luck in making such a drastic change in the other direction. Yes, people will always purchase retail price...some people...but is it enough to keep a company afloat?? Will it be enough for them with their current outlet situation as well?? That's what I don't see, but I admit I'm no expert!

I should also say I don't have a problem with the outlets at all IF they keep their retail and outlet lines separate and IF I can use my retail bag for a long enough before it's blown out at the outlet. I remember finding retail styles a year later and was totally ok with that....or even 6 months. I also completed a good portion of my collection that way because I can't afford everything fp, so Coach had me purchasing both in retail and at the outlets for items I loved. I've never been a MFF person that much. I think I've gotten rid of almost every MFF bag I ever bought honestly, so I do the retail "treasure hunt" thing at the outlets. I love shopping like that. I know that JAX gets crowded, and I suspect they won't store too much for very long there even now, which is kind of what happened in the past, I think. Sometimes at the end of the year you would see strange things just miraculously pop up at the outlets...some were not just retail bags but also retail bags that had been retagged as a MFF item. :laugh: Why they never released some of these styles in the retail stores when they had them, I don't know? Maybe they arrived after the lines were deleted?? Not sure, but that's been a big mystery for years. I used to love that hunt as well. So I'm not saying I think the outlets are bad. I just don't like it when so much of what I buy at full price or PCE price gets shifted so soon and/or blown out at 25% of the retail price, retail knockoffs mades, and I've had that happen WAY too many times! Supposedly now the outlet lines are being designed separately from retail, but again, I've heard that many times before, lol! :smile1:




I love reading your posts. :smile1: I am a nyc girl so I used to go to the Bal outlet at Woodbury and they never had the moto line there. Most premier designers either have stuff made for their outlets like Gucci or they get the weird stuff that no one wants. Coach is the only brand I know of that take their best selling bags and remove them mid-season to the outlet. :p

I too, bought tons of Kristins. I had sages, wovens, every color you could think of. But when they killed the line, I got angry and started to give them away to friends. (I don't resell my bags, I give them away when I am done with them). I now don't have any Kristins. Same with Phoebe. I loved it when it came out, bought a bunch of colors and when they started selling them dirt cheap at the outlets, I gave all of mine away.

I think all but a few of the Vevers bags will end up at the outlet. They may try to keep them back until after the semi-annual sale or they may try to quietly sell them through other liquidation points like saks off fifth instead of the outlets. But they made too many of them and no one wants them at full price and they will end up somewhere.

As for the Dakotahs, well I bought them at 25% off (except for the teal which I paid full price for) and I will be ok if they end up at the outlets. I think the ones with the tons of fringe that close with a turnlock will definitely end up at the outlet. I have not seen even ONE reveal of that style here and I dont think it is selling. If the Vevers stuff all ends up at the outlets at the same pace other things end up at the outlets then this new strategy will be dead.

As for the hype of "sell outs" don't believe it. Net a porter gets very few of anything and is basically a marketing ploy for



Hey, thanks for reading my sagas, lol! :laugh::shame:

That's cool! You are around all the good stuff!! I haven't been to NYC in a while, but I was invited to RK by someone that used to work at a store when he had them open at some of the malls, and I never went. I have to find out if I'm still invited, lol. That's also a brand I got into and bought a lot of bags while I was turned off by Coach. Even with RK, I always bought on discount other than one bag, I think....my first bag, which I just walked in the store and bought a few years back. Then I got the bug, but they always did a much better job of welcoming their customers and making you feel like your purchase was worth something. I spent a while talking about the "Coach effect" too, lol. I know that resale is not great and that most people have no clue who RK is, but I like the bags a lot, and I don't buy them with resale in mind. Don't get me wrong... I do like to know I'm buying something that's not worth zero, but if I love it enough, and it's the right price for me (that's the real key issue for me), I'll buy it...and I did! I still miss going in that store at the mall!

I still find a lot I would like to have in other brands right now, but I completely understand that once you get enough of something, you want to move forward with something else! I completely agree with you about NAP. Yes, if you get in a size or two each, then sell out is very likely! ;) You probably never heard of Tylie Malibu...it's a Cali brand, and I have bought some of those bags over the years. Well, the company went bankrupt recently and then the owner started a new clothing company called Stillwater. Some of those clothes sell out because they don't have much stock, but it looks like they are popular on the website at times if you don't know any better. This is exactly what I see with Coach, and yes, the higher volume items will end up on sale at some point somewhere....for sure the dept stores. I was told they have been doing test markets in NYC for a while before they rolled out this plan, and it was working fabulously, so they went with it, but again, that's a totally different market than even my area too! It comes down to how little higher end stuff can you sell to make enough profit vs volume at blowout prices.

Anyway, don't worry about it... If you love Coach, just buy it if it's what you want at a price you can live with! There's absolutely nothing wrong with that! I might be Negative Nancy ATM with the company, but I am exactly the same way. I'm just trying to hold firm to my one retail price bag rule, but part of that is also because there are other brands I want to buy, and I can get those on sale, kwim??
 
I remember getting this Legacy Tote for around $400 and I walked in the outlet a month later and they had a cardboard horrible version that was exactly the same. I was actually carrying this bag and customers started picking up the MFF whiskey color and saying that it looked great on me!!! I was absolutely dumbfounded!!!

I stopped buying Coach after that and saved my $$ for Burberry, Chanel , and LV!!

I came back with the Borough and started liking some of the styles again. And with the price points rising for the other brands as well, I just didn't think they were worth it either.

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OMG, great bag!! :tup: Yep, I totally appreciate where you're coming from, and I felt the EXACT same way, lol! There are a lot of people who cannot tell the difference in quality of materials, etc.

I played this game with DH's family once. I had an authentic old patchwork summer bag, and my niece had the counterfeit version of mine. I took hers and mine and had everyone answer which bag was real, and ALL of the women thought the knockoff was real. Only a couple of the MEN got it correctly, and that was based on quality of the materials! :laugh: In their area, counterfeits are almost as common as authentic bags, but I admit that's changed a bit after people could go in the outlets and buy a MFF bag for under $100. The point is most of them won't pay anywhere near what a retail Coach bag costs, and most of my family and their friends don't even want my Coach bags. They ask me for MK or RM bags! I don't get it because I have always felt my Coach bags were nicer than either MK or RM, and even back when RM bags were nicer. That's JMO (I know other people feel differently)... and I do love my MK and RM bags too...just in a different way sometimes. At this point, though, I would invest in MK and RM if I wanted to sell to those people for sure! I give them away to my family rather than sell to them, but I'm just saying that they think the prices are ridiculous for Coach, and they don't care to buy it. They would really rather have MK or RM, or even B. Makowsky, which has always surprised me. I guess that's why Coach outlets are all they have in that area!

I also like the Borough, but a lot of the colors haven't grabbed me probably because I have a lot of those colors or they didn't work for me. My fav/must have was the grommet version!


I will have to check out Henri Bendel!!

I love Henri Bendel! They have some cool stuff, and a lot of their own bags are LEs just because they have some designer come in and make them, so they are in limited quantities. Some are nice and others seem a little cheap to me, but I have a few bags that are unique styles. One I searched down and almost missed because it was a really nice and edgy tote with that same bubbly leather like Alexander Wang uses! I don't buy a lot of these because they are pricey, and I know if I do decide to sell them, they have no resale value so I will have lost tons, but there's one bag right now I'm itching for and will probably buy next time I'm at the store.
 
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Since Coach got a new Creative Director and pushed out all these new designs, the bags got uglier and worse in quality. AND to top it off, the prices got marked up to double their original price range. Just a year or two ago, I was able to get a nice quality leather Coach satchel for $350 and a small crossbody for $150-$200. All of a sudden, these new bags that do not look remotely like the old classic lines are selling for $700-$1000. Coach is and always has been an accessible luxury brand. I'm not going to spend premium prices on a low-end luxury brand. If I have to fork out $1000, I'd rather pay a bit more and buy REAL premium designer bags like LV, Gucci and Prada.

Not only that, the Coach products on sale now have no coherence whatsoever. One line may feature studded rock-and-roll designs, another may look like Balenciaga bags, and another may look like the LV Neverfull tote. They are turning into a copy-cat brand just like Michael Kors...


Yep, for all the people ripping on MK, RM, etc., I think about this every time! :laugh: I completely agree. They all copy each other.

Coach really lacks creative imagination, and probably part of that is because they put out so many floorsets. Some of their bags now feature points from different lines they have had in the past too...all done in one bag but also dumbed down from each of their previous lines! At times it reminds me of some of the counterfeits I've seen where they take small parts from diff brands and put them all into one bag, so my conclusion is they are taking notes from the counterfeiters. :laugh: If you like the bag, that's fine, and sometimes I do and other times I don't, but it is kind of funny!
 
Hey, thanks for reading my sagas, lol! :laugh::shame:

That's cool! You are around all the good stuff!! I haven't been to NYC in a while, but I was invited to RK by someone that used to work at a store when he had them open at some of the malls, and I never went. I have to find out if I'm still invited, lol. That's also a brand I got into and bought a lot of bags while I was turned off by Coach. Even with RK, I always bought on discount other than one bag, I think....my first bag, which I just walked in the store and bought a few years back. Then I got the bug, but they always did a much better job of welcoming their customers and making you feel like your purchase was worth something. I spent a while talking about the "Coach effect" too, lol. I know that resale is not great and that most people have no clue who RK is, but I like the bags a lot, and I don't buy them with resale in mind. Don't get me wrong... I do like to know I'm buying something that's not worth zero, but if I love it enough, and it's the right price for me (that's the real key issue for me), I'll buy it...and I did! I still miss going in that store at the mall!

I still find a lot I would like to have in other brands right now, but I completely understand that once you get enough of something, you want to move forward with something else! I completely agree with you about NAP. Yes, if you get in a size or two each, then sell out is very likely! ;) You probably never heard of Tylie Malibu...it's a Cali brand, and I have bought some of those bags over the years. Well, the company went bankrupt recently and then the owner started a new clothing company called Stillwater. Some of those clothes sell out because they don't have much stock, but it looks like they are popular on the website at times if you don't know any better. This is exactly what I see with Coach, and yes, the higher volume items will end up on sale at some point somewhere....for sure the dept stores. I was told they have been doing test markets in NYC for a while before they rolled out this plan, and it was working fabulously, so they went with it, but again, that's a totally different market than even my area too! It comes down to how little higher end stuff can you sell to make enough profit vs volume at blowout prices.

Anyway, don't worry about it... If you love Coach, just buy it if it's what you want at a price you can live with! There's absolutely nothing wrong with that! I might be Negative Nancy ATM with the company, but I am exactly the same way. I'm just trying to hold firm to my one retail price bag rule, but part of that is also because there are other brands I want to buy, and I can get those on sale, kwim??

Although I am from nyc, I live in the metro Detroit area now, and here the outlets are not that good. So, I am not in the habit of going to the outlets to find things, especially handbags. :p:cool:

As for how Coach will do with this new plan, well Lord and Taylor just started their friends and family, which means all coach is on sale again. This will be the THIRD TIME the new stuff has gone on sale at one store or another and its only mid October. I would say the new strategy needs some work. If they want to be exclusive then they need to stop selling their stuff in mid-market department stores that put it on sale all the time.

As for me, I don't really care what others pay for a bag. For me, I don't have time to call every outlet looking for a particular bag to be shipped to an outlet near me (which isn't even near me it's an hour and a half away, etc...). I am ok with getting 25% off where I can and if I really really love something, I will pay full price. My willingness to pay full price had significantly decreased however.
 
As for how Coach will do with this new plan, well Lord and Taylor just started their friends and family, which means all coach is on sale again. This will be the THIRD TIME the new stuff has gone on sale at one store or another and its only mid October. I would say the new strategy needs some work. If they want to be exclusive then they need to stop selling their stuff in mid-market department stores that put it on sale all the time.

Yup, I agree with you big time! The poor SAs at my local coach fp store are falling over themselves for any sale. Their store is virtually empty whenever I go by while ppl are buying the "new" stuff online with a discount.
 
Ah, ok! I'm surprised Detroit doesn't have better outlets!

I also don't care what others pay for a bag, and that includes situations where I pay full price. If someone can find the same bag dirt cheap, and I paid full price, I feel happy for that person. That person either got lucky or did his/her homework and got the great deal. I might feel angry that Coach shifted the retail bag too soon, and often I DO feel that against the company, as well at some point it can and does affect my decision to purchase or not purchase in the retail stores. However, I also know that part of the outlet "find" requires work on my part as a shopper, and I simply don't have it in me to do that outlet stalking thing anymore, so I chose to make the choice I did and have to live with the price I paid. I used to be hard core with the outlet stalking, but I learned that my time is valuable and MUCH better spent doing other things than staying on the phone multiple times for lengthy periods to try to find out what the store has or have them look up info, and/or rushing to fit a 1-2-hr drive (one way) outlet trip in the day somehow. For a period of time I spent waaaayyyy too much time doing this! Don't get me wrong...I LOVE shopping at outlets for the treasure hunt, but now I only do it when I want to, which means when it's convenient for a shopping trip on weekends usually, or I'm out of town. The outlets aren't right next door to me, so I don't go all the time. Right now there are several bags I actually want, but I'm honestly too lazy to call around and do the charge sends, so if I miss them, that's fine. Some outlets are helpful and others aren't, and I'm happy to say I frequent one that is very helpful with regard to charge sends, and I could just call them, but I still only manage to ask about charge sends only when I'm there. I pretty much lost interest is the problem, but for sure if you want to stalk, you can definitely find much better deals! :D These days I just really like leisurely walking into places like TJ Maxx or Nordstrom Rack and seeing what they have. It may not be Coach, but I usually find something I really want, so I even have to limit how often I go into these stores since purchases add up! I'm not brand loyal to a great extent, and there are almost always great finds somewhere, so I know I don't have to spend full price at Coach either, you know? Like you, I just do it when there's something I really, really want. Things average out...sometimes I pay full price and other times I find these amazing steals at liquidators. I'm ok with that!

Yeah, my local L&T seems to be a dead zone with regard to Coach sales. They seem to largely make sales when the bags are on clearance. Some bags sit there literally for weeks before they move! I noticed the other week that unlike previous times where they offered 25% off select Coach items, they were now offering 30%, and there was an add'l coupon code for sale items that probably didn't exclude Coach. They even had Boroughs on sale for the 30% off! Macys sale was 25%. I have bought a few Coach bags from L&T just because they seem fairly easy to get on discount, but you do have to watch that the same thing is not at the outlet for less as well. I've seen that happen where the outlets had the same bag cheaper, but it was before they took away a lot of the sales, so probably now L&T is cheaper. If I'm lazy, I would still buy from L&T, though, since it wasn't enough of a gap for me to justify time and gas...or shipping.

I was told Coach was going to throttle dept store sales, but so far that hasn't happened. Maybe it will in the future? I do know the Nordstrom I mostly shop at totally quit carrying Coach, but it did that a while back. I know they have a buyer who purchases based on sales, and over the years, they have ditched some brands and brought in others based on their sales, so that might be why they quit carrying the brand there. Another store, higher end, only had a couple of duffles and now another brand had moved into their normal Coach area. My local store never did sell much Coach that I could see, but I don't know if maybe the new rebranding thing had something to do with it or not. I know if I were told I had to sell only at full price, even with some small exclusions, and had to keep all the stock I purchased that didn't sell, Coach would NOT be a brand I would carry in my store for sure! Not in my area anyway. I guess a lot of people prefer to purchase at the Coach store anyway, and if there's one in your mall, then as another retailer you have to think about that IMO.


Although I am from nyc, I live in the metro Detroit area now, and here the outlets are not that good. So, I am not in the habit of going to the outlets to find things, especially handbags. :p:cool:

As for how Coach will do with this new plan, well Lord and Taylor just started their friends and family, which means all coach is on sale again. This will be the THIRD TIME the new stuff has gone on sale at one store or another and its only mid October. I would say the new strategy needs some work. If they want to be exclusive then they need to stop selling their stuff in mid-market department stores that put it on sale all the time.

As for me, I don't really care what others pay for a bag. For me, I don't have time to call every outlet looking for a particular bag to be shipped to an outlet near me (which isn't even near me it's an hour and a half away, etc...). I am ok with getting 25% off where I can and if I really really love something, I will pay full price. My willingness to pay full price had significantly decreased however.
 
Yep, Woodbury Coach was always a zoo, lol! I remember I used to stand in line before it opened because there were too many people to be let in at once, and then once it opened, the employees would clap for you as you entered. It reminded me of the dining halls on cruise ships, lol! That is the only outlet I've seen where tons of people walk around rolling large suitcases, not because they are traveling, but because they want to be able to fit all their loot into something they can carry around! I hated it because people are so rude with them in stores, and I can't tell you how often I got my toes run over in the Coach outlet or I was tripped by them! :p It used to be a frenzy there, but then that outlet stopped carrying large amounts of good retail deletes, and I got bored...it's not a quick drive for me, and I would stay 2 days in a motel room while there just to be able to have enough time to shop at all the outlets (my husband thinks I'm crazy but secretly loves shopping), lol. I think Coach knew it had a reseller problem at that outlet and changed where they were shipping retails deletes for some outlets...at least that's what they told me. Part of it was their own fault for not enforcing the item limit policy (and I saw that happen many times). I haven't been back in a long time, though, so I'm not sure if it's changed again?
I've seen buyers with those large rolling suitcases at other outlets, namely Barstow in California. It's common there. I've never gotten there when they first opened so I don't know if there is a line to get in. Most of their business comes from Asian tour buses so if you get there on a day that the tour buses don't run, it isn't as crowded. My outlet usually won't call there for a charge send since they are too busy to answer the phone. On tour bus days they have employees dedicated to the tour bus shoppers.
I was told Coach was going to throttle dept store sales, but so far that hasn't happened. Maybe it will in the future? I do know the Nordstrom I mostly shop at totally quit carrying Coach, but it did that a while back. I know they have a buyer who purchases based on sales, and over the years, they have ditched some brands and brought in others based on their sales, so that might be why they quit carrying the brand there. Another store, higher end, only had a couple of duffles and now another brand had moved into their normal Coach area. My local store never did sell much Coach that I could see, but I don't know if maybe the new rebranding thing had something to do with it or not. I know if I were told I had to sell only at full price, even with some small exclusions, and had to keep all the stock I purchased that didn't sell, Coach would NOT be a brand I would carry in my store for sure! Not in my area anyway. I guess a lot of people prefer to purchase at the Coach store anyway, and if there's one in your mall, then as another retailer you have to think about that IMO.
It is against the law for a manufacturer to control the prices for their retailers. If the retailer wants to put their item on sale, Coach can do nothing other than choose not to sell to that retailer in the future. There may be agreements between Coach and Macy's, for example, but the law prevents them from telling Macy's when and if they can put Coach on sale. That is probably why the high end designers run their own stores within department stores. It allows them to retain control over their products and prices.

Last year, I heard that Coach objected for Nordstrom offering free shipping on their website, making it cheaper than Coach's website. As a result, Nordstrom removed Coach from their website for awhile.

At this point, I would prefer to buy from Macy's, knowing I can return at any time, than from a Coach store. The only advantage to me of a Coach store would be the box and wrapping. Macy's is closer to me and I feel more comfortable returning there. At Coach, there is always the threat that I'll be banned for returning too much.
 
I've seen buyers....

Last year, I heard that Coach objected for Nordstrom offering free shipping on their website, making it cheaper than Coach's website. As a result, Nordstrom removed Coach from their website for awhile.

At this point, I would prefer to buy from Macy's, knowing I can return at any time, than from a Coach store. The only advantage to me of a Coach store would be the box and wrapping. Macy's is closer to me and I feel more comfortable returning there. At Coach, there is always the threat that I'll be banned for returning too much.

I agree- haven't bought at Coach full-price or outlet for at least a year now- would rather go to Macy's, or buy a different brand altogether. Also, whateve, I have to add to your comment.... there's not just the threat of being banned for returns, but also being banned for BUYING "too much" (whatever 'too much' actually means)!! :wacko:
 
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I've seen buyers with those large rolling suitcases at other outlets, namely Barstow in California. It's common there. I've never gotten there when they first opened so I don't know if there is a line to get in. Most of their business comes from Asian tour buses so if you get there on a day that the tour buses don't run, it isn't as crowded. My outlet usually won't call there for a charge send since they are too busy to answer the phone. On tour bus days they have employees dedicated to the tour bus shoppers.

It is against the law for a manufacturer to control the prices for their retailers. If the retailer wants to put their item on sale, Coach can do nothing other than choose not to sell to that retailer in the future. There may be agreements between Coach and Macy's, for example, but the law prevents them from telling Macy's when and if they can put Coach on sale. That is probably why the high end designers run their own stores within department stores. It allows them to retain control over their products and prices.

Last year, I heard that Coach objected for Nordstrom offering free shipping on their website, making it cheaper than Coach's website. As a result, Nordstrom removed Coach from their website for awhile.

At this point, I would prefer to buy from Macy's, knowing I can return at any time, than from a Coach store. The only advantage to me of a Coach store would be the box and wrapping. Macy's is closer to me and I feel more comfortable returning there. At Coach, there is always the threat that I'll be banned for returning too much.

I don't live near a Macys, but the last time I was in one, in Michigan, there was a sign that Coach returns would be limited to 60 days. This was before the 60 return policy change at Coach. That kind of made me think at the time that the Coach one was coming.
 
I've seen buyers with those large rolling suitcases at other outlets, namely Barstow in California. It's common there. I've never gotten there when they first opened so I don't know if there is a line to get in. Most of their business comes from Asian tour buses so if you get there on a day that the tour buses don't run, it isn't as crowded. My outlet usually won't call there for a charge send since they are too busy to answer the phone. On tour bus days they have employees dedicated to the tour bus shoppers.

It is against the law for a manufacturer to control the prices for their retailers. If the retailer wants to put their item on sale, Coach can do nothing other than choose not to sell to that retailer in the future. There may be agreements between Coach and Macy's, for example, but the law prevents them from telling Macy's when and if they can put Coach on sale. That is probably why the high end designers run their own stores within department stores. It allows them to retain control over their products and prices.

Last year, I heard that Coach objected for Nordstrom offering free shipping on their website, making it cheaper than Coach's website. As a result, Nordstrom removed Coach from their website for awhile.

At this point, I would prefer to buy from Macy's, knowing I can return at any time, than from a Coach store. The only advantage to me of a Coach store would be the box and wrapping. Macy's is closer to me and I feel more comfortable returning there. At Coach, there is always the threat that I'll be banned for returning too much.


Yeah, the person at Macys said Coach wanted to put their own SAs in there, so I assume it would be like the LV in NM. SHe also said they had to agree to mark down only during certain events, but I certainly don't know the legalities involved with that. I can't say I've paid attention to open-ended vs closed return policies either because to me, 30 days is more than enough time to decide if you want to keep something! I was also told it was illegal to not accept a return based on an old receipt that had a certain open-ended return policy, but yet this is apparently changing as well after a certain date with Coach stores? :shrugs: This point also came up in the past with regard to Coach banning based on returns. No clue...just listen to what employees at the dept stores have to say, and I don't blame them if they don't want to comply with Coach just because they need to move their merch. It's also not going to fly to operate a store within a store unless the dept store gets something out of it, or otherwise it's a waste of space, so I guess they will move forward with that aspect when/if they work things out. I do know someone I used to buy from in CA- she had a small boutique and carried a brand that wanted to throttle her. The shop owner was selling the brand on eBay and at discounted prices, and she was told she would not be allowed to sell it if she didn't agree to stop because she was damaging the brand image with her discounting and ebay sales. She took a hard line but finally quit selling it. I didn't blame her, although I don't know for sure that is the reason why she quit selling (the brand was barely selling at the reduced prices on eBay). I think she also closed her boutique eventually. The thing is people probably want to order directly since they could be assured the items were authentic, at least as far as eBay goes.

Definitely true about Nordstrom last year, but I don't know about the current state with Coach. I just know the main store I shop at has no interest in the brand, but that could only be based on sales.
 
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I don't live near a Macys, but the last time I was in one, in Michigan, there was a sign that Coach returns would be limited to 60 days. This was before the 60 return policy change at Coach. That kind of made me think at the time that the Coach one was coming.


Yeah, that's interesting because i know I had a friend tell me Macys was 90-day returns or something like that months ago, but I had checked online, and i thought their policy stated "any time"....but generally speaking. I think they are listed as 14 days for LV because that is LV policy, so this might be why they started the 60 days for Coach. I'll have to check next time I'm at the store!
 
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