Why Goldman Sachs Believes Coach's (COH) Turnaround Is Alienating Consumers

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#331
pinkngreenpurse said:
i mentioned this in another thread....but as much as it would initially hurt they need to close a good number of outlet stores. There should be no more than 15-20 nationwide. Re-train customers that the fp stores have good deals and sales then people would not constantly run to the outlet.


I would say for the past number of years i had been a loyal outlet shopper only...and never went into the fp stores....that was until i saw new designs that were worth my money. Now i only shop fp.......and when i recently ventured back into the outlet to see what they had, i could immediately tell the difference in the quality.


Now if they can convert me from an outlet only shopper they can convert others.


A similar price point brand.. Dooney & burke which i also shop only has a handful of outlet stores/ and fp stores for that matter and are still profitable.
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+1
 
#332
MrCoach said:
On that note as well, COACH bags are hand made. Kate Spade, MK, and Cole Haan are not. They are mass produced by machines. Cut a COACH open and then cut one of the brands listed above and you will see the difference.

Again, unfortunately we live in a world where people treadily believe the media or "gossip" by mouth.
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I have these other brands as well and I do prefer some of the Coach styles and definitely their leathers, but the term "handmade" should be taken with a grain of salt. I am fairly certain that my bags didn't start out as pieces of leather on a table in front of an artisan with a leather apron, leather cutters and a needle and thread!! Were there hands involved as part of an assembly line in a Coach factory? Sure. But definitely mass produced.

I do think Coach has gotten a bad wrap in some cases (MK has an outlet almost next door to every Coach one and they don't get nearly as hammered). That being said, it is not just gossip. Coach as a company made some very bad decisions in terms of the outlets, the way they handled deletes, and yes, even their quality control at certain points. So this is not just "bad media" or "gossip." This is the reputation that Coach made for themselves and now they have to unmake it!! I am glad the quality has improved to some extent and I am encouraged to see people "coming back" to Coach, but don't slam folks who question the quality or the brand. Slap Coach on the hand for doing that to themselves and then support the brand with your wallet if you love it. Simple as that.
 
#333
I hear and understand your post completely. I support and agree with you. But my SA in Houston as shares with me how it starts with the leather on a table by a leather craftsman and so forth like you states above. This is why I love COACH so dearly and other brands as well that do this too(I.e. Dior who has the video on how they make a bag on YouTube). It's such an elegant process.
 
#334
MrCoach said:
I hear and understand your post completely. I support and agree with you. But my SA in Houston as shares with me how it starts with the leather on a table by a leather craftsman and so forth like you states above. This is why I love COACH so dearly and other brands as well that do this too(I.e. Dior who has the video on how they make a bag on YouTube). It's such an elegant process.
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With all due respect, your SA in Houston is selling you a load of crap.
 
#336
MiaBorsa said:
Excuse me, but I own plenty of each of those brands, and you will never convince me that Coach is superior in any way. They are all well-made bags. Do you honestly believe that Coach is not "mass produced?"
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I own those other brands too and I agree. My MFF MK is droolworthy. I'm a Coach girl but my MK is one of my favorite bags.

I've owned vintage Gucci and Fendi and the quality of those wasn't anything special - definitely not as nice as my vintage Coach.
abwd said:
I have these other brands as well and I do prefer some of the Coach styles and definitely their leathers, but the term "handmade" should be taken with a grain of salt. I am fairly certain that my bags didn't start out as pieces of leather on a table in front of an artisan with a leather apron, leather cutters and a needle and thread!! Were there hands involved as part of an assembly line in a Coach factory? Sure. But definitely mass produced.

I do think Coach has gotten a bad wrap in some cases (MK has an outlet almost next door to every Coach one and they don't get nearly as hammered). That being said, it is not just gossip. Coach as a company made some very bad decisions in terms of the outlets, the way they handled deletes, and yes, even their quality control at certain points. So this is not just "bad media" or "gossip." This is the reputation that Coach made for themselves and now they have to unmake it!! I am glad the quality has improved to some extent and I am encouraged to see people "coming back" to Coach, but don't slam folks who question the quality or the brand. Slap Coach on the hand for doing that to themselves and then support the brand with your wallet if you love it. Simple as that.
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+1
 
#337
MrCoach said:
I hear and understand your post completely. I support and agree with you. But my SA in Houston as shares with me how it starts with the leather on a table by a leather craftsman and so forth like you states above. This is why I love COACH so dearly and other brands as well that do this too(I.e. Dior who has the video on how they make a bag on YouTube). It's such an elegant process.
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In the 70s and 80s it was like that. They had a factory in NYC with 6 craftsmen. Now they contract with production companies in China that have thousands of workers. This is one of the factories. http://www.yorkstar.com/company.html

They also make Prada there, according to their PR, as well as several other brands. Coach doesn't run their own factories.
 
#338
MrCoach said:
I hear and understand your post completely. I support and agree with you. But my SA in Houston as shares with me how it starts with the leather on a table by a leather craftsman and so forth like you states above. This is why I love COACH so dearly and other brands as well that do this too(I.e. Dior who has the video on how they make a bag on YouTube). It's such an elegant process.
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Well, you might enjoy this Dooney and Bourke propaganda video. :roflmfao: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Y2aaLPz1Ik

I buy and love Dooney, but for the most part they are mass produced in China. A couple of the bags featured in the video are made in Italy. Videos can be misleading.
 
#339
whateve said:
In the 70s and 80s it was like that. They had a factory in NYC with 6 craftsmen. Now they contract with production companies in China that have thousands of workers. This is one of the factories. http://www.yorkstar.com/company.html

They also make Prada there, according to their PR, as well as several other brands. Coach doesn't run their own factories.
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yep, i have no doubt at one time it was like this. Now? i think it's not quite what is painted.

I do own some bags that are handmade.. both in my country, the one bag is more common and generally speaking passes through about 15 people to be made. The other is a bit of a smaller lesser known company.

Coach, i still enjoy .. .. but as others have said i am not drinking the kool aid to think that they don't have some issue to sort. The repairs department being one lol.
 
#340
Just last week I strolled through a Coach outlet in California and was really shocked to see a line of new bags completely mimicking the Swagger style. I've been watching the Swaggers closely to see if it's something I want to invest in, and I do like the new color blocking designs, but to see these "almost Swaggers" was unsettling since the design just seemed "off". I don't understand why the company continues to cannabalize itself with cheaper looks, which will probably just appeal to the bargain shopper, and not ladies with more discerning tastes. Now that I've seen Coach 's fake Swaggers, I just want to laugh at them.
 
#341
pinkngreenpurse said:
Now if they can convert me from an outlet only shopper they can convert others.
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I was converted too.

You know what they should do? Have a few of the FP collection bags shown as museum pieces under glass on display at the outlet. That way they can educate their customers to influence them to upgrade and visit the FP store to handle them.

I assume most outlet shoppers that purchase outlet products remain outlet-only shoppers and see no need to upgrade. They just need to get used to the idea of paying for something nicer, or walking into the FP store.

Or an outlet SA could pull the collection bags out on request and sell them at full price.

When I shopped outlet, I bought very few mff products. My untrained eye went to the classics that were mixed in at the time.

At least the outlet products are starting to look more like the FP products. Maybe that is part of the strategy to convert the customers to a higher end bag.
 
#342
Jesssh said:
I was converted too.

You know what they should do? Have a few of the FP collection bags shown as museum pieces under glass on display at the outlet. That way they can educate their customers to influence them to upgrade and visit the FP store to handle them.

I assume most outlet shoppers that purchase outlet products remain outlet-only shoppers and see no need to upgrade. They just need to get used to the idea of paying for something nicer, or walking into the FP store.

Or an outlet SA could pull the collection bags out on request and sell them at full price.

When I shopped outlet, I bought very few mff products. My untrained eye went to the classics that were mixed in at the time.

At least the outlet products are starting to look more like the FP products. Maybe that is part of the strategy to convert the customers to a higher end bag.
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I agree there is an assumption that many outlet shoppers go there to buy outlet products only. I stopped by an outlet recently while carrying my light blue Dakotah -- an SA said "I haven't seen your bag at this outlet". Another time at the outlet, I was inquiring about the price of the leather tribal duffle and the SA was almost apologetic and said "this one is a little more expensive -- $269 (or whatever the amount was)".

Also funny to me, I saw a listing for the MFF swagger lookalike bag on a siite where the seller actually used "swagger" after "Blake" in the title of the listing.
 
#343
Iamminda said:
I agree there is an assumption that many outlet shoppers go there to buy outlet products only. I stopped by an outlet recently while carrying my light blue Dakotah -- an SA said "I haven't seen your bag at this outlet". Another time at the outlet, I was inquiring about the price of the leather tribal duffle and the SA was almost apologetic and said "this one is a little more expensive -- $269 (or whatever the amount was)".

Also funny to me, I saw a listing for the MFF swagger lookalike bag on a siite where the seller actually used "swagger" after "Blake" in the title of the listing.
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I know quite a few of the factory SA well, and i was surprised how many of them do not actually shop FP themselves... they were all over my snoopy stuff and admitted they don't even go into the boutiques so i don't think it's just the shoppers even the SA in factory seem to remain there...

I shop factory for deletes... but that is harder to fulfill these days. I admit my oldest buys many of their factory bags she doesn't care that much, she does own a bit of boutique as we have bought them for her or she's found the odd delete which i try to educate her on but she basically wants something a bit 'nicer' but FP is a bit beyond her level at this moment in time.
 
#344
I hate to admit it, but with Coach I also only shop in the factory outlets. Granted I have not bought a Coach bag for several years now, and my tastes have gone more luxury, much to my wallet's dismay :(

I think a lot of Coach competitors (MK, Kate Spade, etc.) are all consumers who would likely buy MFF items for those brands too.
 
#345
applecidered said:
I hate to admit it, but with Coach I also only shop in the factory outlets. Granted I have not bought a Coach bag for several years now, and my tastes have gone more luxury, much to my wallet's dismay :(

I think a lot of Coach competitors (MK, Kate Spade, etc.) are all consumers who would likely buy MFF items for those brands too.
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I do own MK but i am no fan of their outlets (if you've never been in one).. they are pricey! seriously.

I started into Coach via a boutique... factory is a hit n miss for me.. some bags/SLG are good, others no. Really depends on how they feel and what i am paying. Generally i just rummage to find the retail goods lol
 
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