What do y'all think about the Balenciaga SS23 & Adidas collab "teddy" controversy?

[Swanky]

Bears repeating!

We'd like to leave this thread open, but political conspiracy theories, among other comments need to stop. Discuss the topic only please, let's keep the discussion open and all responses to others need to remain respectful.

Also, let’s stick closely to topic, it really helps preventing tangents and drama.

 

[Kevinaxx]

BoF REVOKES award for Balenciaga creative director Demna Gvasalia

BoF had awarded Demna the Global VOICES Award, an honor previously given to the late designer Virgil Abloh, announced on Monday it would no longer honor him at its awards this week.

www.dailymail.co.uk

They really need to let Demna go.

 

[PurseUOut]

It is equally worrying that people are doubling down on judging owners of Bal products if their response is deemed an inappropriate level of outrage against the brand. Everyone is upset and this topic is difficult, so why complicate things further by making people feel bad about their existing collections? I just don't see why the anger is directed at the customers (that have already condemned these images) who don't fall in line with various conspiracy theories.

To me, it is an inappropriate level of outrage for adults to care more about wearing their vintage bal bags in "peace" than banning together to send a message that such an egregious display promoting child sexualization, exploitation and abuse will not be tolerated or promoted from any brand. These are children. Who are we really as a society to allow this to simply be "condemned" with no action or consequence behind it?

This goes beyond cancel culture. Balenciaga published images of toddlers engaged in sadomasochistic sexual and alcoholic imagery. These toddlers were in the same ad campaign as a copy of a SCOTUS ruling that struck down a ban on virtual child pornography because no "real" children were harmed. These photos were approved at the corporate level (by their own admission) for release. It was conceptalized and story-boarded. This is who Balenciaga is - TODAY - and they showed us very clearly who they are. If you chose to advertise this company by wearing their bags, whenever they were produced, then do it. But you can't control how others are going to feel/think about you wearing it while knowing what their company represents TODAY.

 

[Bag peace]

To me, it is an inappropriate level of outrage for adults to care more about wearing their vintage bal bags in "peace" than banning together

Forgive me but, that is not what's happening. Every single person (apart from 1) has clearly and explicitly posted that they are banding together to condemn this campaign, its messaging and its symbolism.
None of the old Bal customers signed up to be part of this messaging! Everyone has clearly said it's unthinkable and the people responsible should be held to account.
The idea that there is an arbitrary level of outrage that one must reach before you are satisfied is bizarre. How is anyone to sufficiently express this disgust? How are they to match the others shouting them down? That would not lead to any constructive conversation.

These toddlers were in the same ad campaign as a copy of a SCOTUS ruling that struck down a ban on virtual child pornography because no "real" children were harmed.

No they weren't. That was a separate campaign. The documents were not in the same photo of children with the bears. I know everyone's worked up but, let's try to keep the facts straight.

If you chose to advertise this company by wearing their bags, whenever they were produced, then do it.

To reiterate from my o.p. I have no skin in this game as I don't own Bal. But many people do and those people are now trying to figure out how to move forward. I'm sure Wang customers felt this confusion and disgust when the news came out about him (to use a current example).

I'm just saying, let's not shout everyone down because they don't connect this one photo to "pizza gate". There are links that are unproven, opinions peddled as facts, dummy accounts spreading misinformation, and a lot of misdirected anger.
The campaign is deeply disturbing, people are upset. Good! Like you said, we, as a society, need to take a moral stand. Now, let's hold the people involved accountable instead of attacking those who bought bags 20 years ago, given that those customers are already upset by this news and have said so.

But you can't control how others are going to feel/think about you wearing it while knowing what their company represents TODAY.

I'm not trying to. I said in my o.p. I won't judge anyone else's choices and I'm not trying to control anyone's reactions to mine. I can only do what's right for me in my own life, and that happens to be boycotting problematic brands. Everyone else has to draw their own line.

Edit: and with this, I'm bowing out of the discussion. Peace.

 

[Noorasi]

While I do think people can wear and enjoy their old Bal bags and still of course condemn the current situation, I do wonder if it's actually that easy. Even if you logically decide to separate the old fashion from the new sick direction, other people might not. So, depending hugely on your social circles, there's a risk that wearing a Balenciaga item will lead to someone asking "oh, are you wearing the child porn brand?" or some other maybe aggressive conversations about supporting child molestation. And posting outfits with Balenciage items on social media will almost certainly lead to comments like that, because people tend to condemn others very harshly on social media. I foresee luxury Youtubers largely dropping Balenciaga.

Even if your social circles or people on the metro don't recognize the brand, it's still a mind game. You can logically decide to continue loving your items, but the negative connotation lingers. You see your beautiful and loved bag and then you're reminded of children in bondage wear, want it or not.

I am absolutely not dictating how anyone should feel about their old Bal, I'm just thinking out loud. Love for brands is hugely about aspiration and image, status and how the brand makes us feel. It might not be that easy to separate the past and present with pure logic.

 

[Deco]

And here are the problems I have with the demand that all Balenciaga products be shunned.

1. The suggestion that those who continue to enjoy their bags in public will not do so in “peace“ is repugnant. This doesn’t mean people aren’t free to feel/think whatever condemnation they want about Bal carriers. Freedom of thought and opinion is fundamental to a free society. So feel away.

2. Rather than direct ire at bag collectors for not torching their bags in a grand bonfire, direct your ire at the perpetrators of this atrocity. If you’re going to lump bag carriers in with the perps bcz they don’t activism in the precise manner you prescribe, then no one is safe from persecution in this totalitarian version of moralism where the slippery slope of guilt by association has no bottom.

3. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this horrific ad campaign doesn’t reveal anything new many of us haven’t already been acutely aware of for over a decade. The fashion and entertainment industries are awash in this sort of crime and have been trying to launder their depravation into the mainstream culture, with great success. This campaign means I will not buy anything from this Balenciaga and have been screaming bloody murder on Twitter for days. I’m going to pile on the outrage and demand consequences from retailers and collaborators. It doesn’t mean I’m dumping my vintage items from 15 - 20 years ago or that I will suddenly develop a deep concern over what random strangers think of me because they think the bag I carry is some kind of window into my corrupt soul. This Balenciaga did not make my old bags. Brand destruction is prospective, not retroactive, no matter how much those who never cared about the brand in the first place would want the brand’s annihilation to be thorough and retroactive.

4. Part of my duty as a mother is to devise strategies to protect my child from predators and instill in her an understanding of the dangers that lurk and how to avoid and escape them. I’ve been having these conversations with all mothers I know, to make sure we’re all aware of these dangers and look out for each other’s kids. I also survey the community to determine who may have an insensitivity to child sexualization and a value system incompatible with those of my family’s, and make sure I steer my child clear of them. Not letting them have “peace” is never on the menu.

 

[PurseUOut]

Another nondescript, completely coincidental photo in the ad campaign of a street address - which I am sure was "randomly" pulled from the billions on Google - leading to none other than - Epstein Gynecology Associates.

Nothing to see here. Complete coincidence. Just "art".

 

[TraceySH]

Someone pointed this out, I didn't see it at first. The "BAALENCIAGA" on the tape instead of Bal -... ew. Insert the devil into this convo, literally.

 

[Norm.Core]

I’m one one those who carry 20+ year old Balenciaga’s. I have been a member of tPF since Jan 2006 and I will still carry my old-school Bals from Nicholas Ghesquière era as Demna’s era is imploding from this controversy.

For anybody who flames me in person or on here because I’m not gonna get rid of my 20-year old Bals then knock yourself out. I am utterly disgusted about the ad/messaging from this campaign but to have this totalitarian and unrealistic expectations of all of us here will be subservient to boycotting EVERYTHING re: Balenciaga is unbelievable. Same as canceling Cristobal Balenciaga’s legacy just because of what has happened last week. I’m sorry but get real.

 

[lovejoysunshine]

Someone pointed this out, I didn't see it at first. The "BAALENCIAGA" on the tape instead of Bal -... ew. Insert the devil into this convo, literally.

View attachment 5661315

So this ad campaign involves messages/imagery of both child sexual abuse and the occultic sacrifice of children. How depraved is this company and the people involved in this? Surely they can’t push the blame on outsiders now, someone green lit the production of that roll of tape.

The more I look at the drawings in the background the more I am creeped out. Utterly disgusted by balenciaga

 

[vesna]

If that’s the case then no one should wear Chanel.

This is very true. I actually don’t wear Chanel. Her history disturbs me.

I am not consistent in this at all, because a lot of research needs to be done on everyone to see whether to support them or not. I know in my field of science, too many great discoveries were made by absolutely horrific human beings, starting with Einstein. His theories are the essence of my profession, but he was horrible to his first wife (unknown to anyone) and the relationship with one of his children who was mentally ill, he was hiding from the world. The other one was about to get Nobel prize but was not given because of a finding that he was harassing female students for decades, another one whose documentaries are a staple in my lectures was found guilty of the same ….had to find new material hoping that those people would prove to be OK.

I don’t know what to think. This company is sick now, they were so healthy and vibrant in Nicholas’ time….same with YSL in Pilati’s time (I think)….perhaps it would be best to turn the attention to decent bags from decent small cobblers and support local artisans. Perhaps we should simply go back to decent and simple lifestyles. I will seriously think about it, and am already selling a lot of my high end things because I don’t feel them any more. I just posted in “wear your Bal “ thread about my beauties and saw this thread and was honestly horrified, and solidified my decision to use my hard earned money better.

 

[2cello]

There is a bigger narrative here, which is desensitizing people culturally to issues of child sexual abuse. Culture doesn't change overnight. There has to be a narrative that follows a theme over and over and over again. AKA brainwashing. The more people are exposed to it, the more they become accustomed to it and desensitized so they don't question it anymore. The goal is not just to push "the envelope once." There are several different brands, entities, and individuals involved in this cultural narrative to promote a certain message so it becomes normalized. It's not as easy and simple as one might think. Some people changed the name to "child-attracted person." So, they start changing language, exposing people to images, and in your brain's neuroplasticity, society starts getting used to it. Suddenly, a sense of right and wrong is gone and we don't even know how we got there. Think about this: "child-attracted person?" What in the world happened to decency in this country?

I’ve heard it as minor attracted person. MAPS. But yes. There is definitely an effort to make pedophilia socially acceptable. Even (mostly?) coming from academia. It’s like there has to be a group of people who have to always push the bar. Thus you have people defending it as “art” and claiming to be the cool ones who are into the new shocking thing. I think its also how the Bal campaign got approved by the execs because it’s being pushed more than you’d think. They probably thought it was already more socially acceptable than it is.

 

[vesna]

I'm not a Bal customer, so my opinion is about as shallow as my bank account. However, I was quite horrified by the headlines around this, and my stomach sank to learn that the headlines were not exaggerating and the imagery does contain deeply disturbing elements. I'm now schooled on something I wish I'd never heard of (panda eyes). Just typing it out makes my stomach turn and that is no exaggeration.

It's hard reading this thread and seeing members judge each other for varying reactions. Any and all judgement and displeasure ought to be aimed at the house, the creatives and the executives who took this concept from pitch to publication.
Focusing on how outraged others are (or aren't) detracts from the focal point of how the brand- that has arguably been trolling for a couple of years now- felt empowered to make these decisions and expected its clientele to hype it up with online debates. That's fundamentally wrong from a moral, business and marketing standpoint. It's lazy to rely on outrage and ridicule to keep your name in the papers, and it's repulsive to use such dark themes to garner that outrage in the first place.

What I would have liked is a clear statement as to what their artistic vision was. Now, before I get slammed for saying that, let me be clear that I would have absolutely condemned it anyway. This is beyond the pale- there is no doubt about that. However, some context would allow customers to make informed decisions about what their association with the brand will be moving forward.
Was this just them attempting to be edgy to garner as much press as possible, possibly in the hopes of going viral with this controversial campaign?
Or was it meant to be a social commentary of sorts? A mirror held up to showcase how society currently exploits children without consequence? Because, let's be honest, between celebrities and influencers posting their kids all over their social media, kids are being exploited for monetary gain all the time (and there is a darker side to those pictures being on social media sites as this campaign has shown us).
Or was it some other concept entirely that perhaps my unartistic mind cannot conceive?
I can't say that any of those possibilities would make this any more palatable. I would be horrified regardless, but people who have spent a lot of money on this house ought to have more context and a clearer answer from the house. By hiding all their social media pages, Bal are silencing an important conversation, which is problematic in itself!

As I said at the start of this, I'm not a customer, I will never be a customer, and my opinion means as little to Bal as they do to me. However, I live with myself and I have to be sure my choices reflect my values. In the same way that learning more about Chanel, Minkoff, Wang, and Bond. no. 9 (perfumery) means that I will never own any of their products, this campaign means that I will forever be disgusted by Bal.
Do I think I can make a difference to those massive brands by not shopping with them: absolutely not. But in choosing to spend my money with people who share my values, I am able to sleep better at night.
However, that is my personal decision for my life. I will not judge others if they come to a different conclusion.
My heart goes out to their once loyal fans who lovingly carried their bags and rocked their rtw and shoes. The house has put their customers in between a rock and a hard place. Those customers (of old or new Bal) will be judged, one way or another and- as this thread has shown- they will be judged just as harshly as the brand itself.

Edit: I just recalled that there was a similar issue with Celine Dion's kids clothing line...something about the imagery being inappropriate too but I don't recall the details. It didn't garner as much attention as Bal is but, it upset some people.

I like your post very much. I also wish to see the explanation of artistic vision here (which will not get me less disgusted, because this was advertising campaign for selling things). Just curious to hear what was the “creative” process behind this move. Just curious.

 

[dangerouscurves]

Look at who is liking....Marc Jacobs is one

And it’s usually those who do really well in group functions, how else do you explain the rise in ranks? Not that all in same position as D-bal would be, but it doesn’t surprise me.

If you’re in it purely for profit, short term you might see gain. Long term you shoot yourself in the foot.

Now this actually answers my life question of why most leaders are tyrants.

 

[Deco]

I’ve heard it as minor attracted person. MAPS. But yes. There is definitely an effort to make pedophilia socially acceptable. Even (mostly?) coming from academia. It’s like there has to be a group of people who have to always push the bar. Thus you have people defending it as “art” and claiming to be the cool ones who are into the new shocking thing. I think its also how the Bal campaign got approved by the execs because it’s being pushed more than you’d think. They probably thought it was already more socially acceptable than it is.

It’s everywhere. WaPo, NYT, unis, they’re all normalizing pedophilia.

heres today‘s offering from WaPo. I read a quote from the article that described the most annoying/unsympathetic character in the play as the now grown victim of child rape.

 

[vesna]

It gets worse:

WARNING: Some of these images are VERY sick.

It's Getting Worse: Balenciaga Designer Exposed for Posting Disturbing Photos Linked to 'Satanic Ritual, Cannibalism, Child Mutilation' | The Gateway Pundit | by Jim Hᴏft

Luxury fashion brand Balenciaga is under fire again after the child pornography scandal brought to light to company’s obsession with satanic rituals, including the disturbing posts of the company’s stylist.

www.thegatewaypundit.com

WTH ???