WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

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#61
kristie said:
Thank you for that new info Apricot! Of course the claims supervisor mentioned nothing of the sort.

PP truly has the attitude that someone should be totally fine with a $20K loss. The supervisor could have cared LESS! I asked her how she would feel if she lost $20 thousand dollars! Her response?? "I am not in that situation so how would I know?" She was SO rude!
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I am literally appalled that you were spoken to in this manner. I am sick just reading this story, and I cannot express how horrible I feel for you. I know that my post isn't going to remedy the situation, but I sincerely feel for you. Paypal and eBay have become absolutely ridiculous, and frankly first thing Monday AM I would be on the phone with an attorney regarding going after Paypal - not the buyer. You provided all necessary evidence that the bag was authentic. Period. Please - go after Paypal. And again, I am so very sorry. I cannot begin to imagine how horrific this must be for you.

The buyer is in Canada... You have their address.. CA is not that far away..........
 
#62
Screw paypal. You won't get anywhere with them...but just so you are aware, there is such a thing as seller protection too. I haven't read the whole claim but I don't know if this has already been said but as a seller you have direct knowledge of where the item was delivered too. So, email her and let her know that you are on to her scam and that she has picked on the wrong person. Give her 24 hours to return the money. If not, then file a claim with her city RCMP office for fraud. They WILL file a claim, especially knowing this girl had NO, I repeat NO feedback. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. You've been scammed and the RCMP will file a claim. Then since the scam took place in Canada, we are governed by provincial law. File a claim in small claims court...can be done on line or via a lawyer. She will be served at the address you've provided. Right...she probably won't live there (because she is a SCAMMER!) and if she does, then she'll have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that this was a fake. This must be from someone who represents the opinion of a qualified professional and this sworn affidavid that was supplied to Paypal is not even worth the paper it was written on in Canada. These "affidavids" are propietary to paypal, they are not notarized or anything. She will have to prove everything. Email her and let her know you mean business, that you'll file a claim at RCMP and sue her in small claims to the address she provided. If she's not there to accept papers, then you'll take that to Paypal as evidence that this is a scam. If she does accept them, then let the chips fall where they may. Battle out in small claims. With her 0 feedback matched against your outstanding feedback, we'll see who a judge will believe.
Good luck!
 
#63
jences said:
Screw paypal. You won't get anywhere with them...but just so you are aware, there is such a thing as seller protection too. I haven't read the whole claim but I don't know if this has already been said but as a seller you have direct knowledge of where the item was delivered too. So, email her and let her know that you are on to her scam and that she has picked on the wrong person. Give her 24 hours to return the money. If not, then file a claim with her city RCMP office for fraud. They WILL file a claim, especially knowing this girl had NO, I repeat NO feedback. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. You've been scammed and the RCMP will file a claim. Then since the scam took place in Canada, we are governed by provincial law. File a claim in small claims court...can be done on line or via a lawyer. She will be served at the address you've provided. Right...she probably won't live there (because she is a SCAMMER!) and if she does, then she'll have to prove without a shadow of a doubt that this was a fake. This must be from someone who represents the opinion of a qualified professional and this sworn affidavid that was supplied to Paypal is not even worth the paper it was written on in Canada. These "affidavids" are propietary to paypal, they are not notarized or anything. She will have to prove everything. Email her and let her know you mean business, that you'll file a claim at RCMP and sue her in small claims to the address she provided. If she's not there to accept papers, then you'll take that to Paypal as evidence that this is a scam. If she does accept them, then let the chips fall where they may. Battle out in small claims. With her 0 feedback matched against your outstanding feedback, we'll see who a judge will believe.
Good luck!
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This is a great post with great advice. OP - GET HER!!! :tup:
 
#64
chloehandbags said:
Did you mention and/or picture the security tag, in your listing?

Also, how quickly after the auction ended did the buyer escalate to a claim?

In other words, did they leave it sufficiently long that the listing was no longer viewable, do you think?

So sorry this is happening to you, BTW. Hopefully, something can still be done.

If it makes you feel any better, at all(?), you haven't really lost $20,000.

Depending on how you look at it, you've either lost a bag worth $9,000 + your time + expenses, or $11,000; not both.

Basically, the buyer stole the bag + your time taken to list it + any non-refundable fees. They didn't, also, steal the money; it's just as though they never paid you it.

After all, you would never have been in a position where you had the bag and the money, would you? So, in terms of loss, it's also either one or the other.

Still a hell of a lot to lose, though, I know. :sad:
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Paypal said even though the buyer FOUND my bag on eBay, they do not review the eBay auction because it was not an eBay transaction.

So, they were uninterested in her eBay feedback, my photos, craftsman stamp, security tag.....nada.
 
#66
I really think the avenue that an attorney will want to pursue is paypal.

This would be ideal because:
1. These bastards deserve everything that comes to them
2. They are local for me..... I mean literally.... Paypal corporate HQ is less than an hour from my house.
 
#67
re: the $20k verse $11k, if it had gone smoothly you would have the 11k and no bag so she only took the 11k back. you would have either/or but not both. the only way you would be out 20k is if she gave you 11k and you were supposed to keep the bag as well. either way its still a large amount .
 
#68
kristie said:
It would not have made a hill of beans difference if I sold it to her ON ebay or OFF Ebay because it is still PP buyer protection, PERIOD.
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Sorry, I missed that it was an off-eBay transaction.

I think it might well have made a difference, assuming the tag was shown in the listing? As any authentication service worth its salt would have noticed that the bag in the listing had a tag on it; whereas, the one the buyer submitted didn't (assuming the listing was still viewable).

Also, there would bound to have been differences evident between the auth bag in the listing (assuming there were decent pics? Which one would assume there normally would be for an $11,000 item) and the fake bag submitted.

Obviously, they would still have declared the bag submitted a fake, but it would have been far more likely to come to light that there were two different bags involved.

So, yes, I think it can make a huge difference, TBH.
 
#69
kristie said:
The buyer paid me $11K to my pp account.
I transferred the $11K from PP account to my bank account.
Buyer did full dispute making my account negative $11K since I had transferred the money to my bank account.
I transferred BACK the $11k to make my pp balance $0 so I could continue selling.
So now that the dispute is over pp gave back the $11k that was being held by pp to the buyer.

I original paid $9K for the bag that is now gone.

So yes, it is $20K total loss.
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It is still a lot to lose, but your Plus 11K and Minus 11K is a wipe or zero. You are either out the 9k for the bag you had and don't have now, or the 11K you stood to earn from the sale of that bag. The powers that be are less likely to take you seriously if you say it is a 20K loss when in actuality is is either 9 or 11 K.

But whether it is 9K or 20K, you should not be subjected to the thieving ways of this scammer. I hope you get some better answers on Monday, and hope the paypal Ambassador someone spoke about can help you. I would be at my wits end, and it seems so unfair that this is happening to you. Good luck, and hope you prevail.
 
#70
Even if legal recourse is difficult due to the differing countries, start contacting news outlets until you find someone willing to report the story. Keep contacting people until the story gets reported in at least several different outlets. Once it gets picked up by even the tiniest site/paper/magazine, let PayPal know. Let them know that you'll continue to do this.
 
#72
I'm so disgusted reading this! My heart breaks for you. There are so many evil people in the world.

I know you said you can't afford an attorney, but I hope you can get some restitution. This is despicable!
 
#73
Cocolo said:
It is still a lot to lose, but your Plus 11K and Minus 11K is a wipe or zero. You are either out the 9k for the bag you had and don't have now, or the 11K you stood to earn from the sale of that bag. The powers that be are less likely to take you seriously if you say it is a 20K loss when in actuality is is either 9 or 11 K.

But whether it is 9K or 20K, you should not be subjected to the thieving ways of this scammer. I hope you get some better answers on Monday, and hope the paypal Ambassador someone spoke about can help you. I would be at my wits end, and it seems so unfair that this is happening to you. Good luck, and hope you prevail.
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This!! I bet you might have some recourse against paypal since they are the ones who brokered the payment/exchange. But you have to stick with the facts, no matter how angry you feel. You are only out the bag OR the money....NOT both.
 
#74
Ah..... This makes sense then because then the pics, auction and FB WOULD have been relevant.
chloehandbags said:
Sorry, I missed that it was an off-eBay transaction.

I think it might well have made a difference, assuming the tag was shown in the listing? As any authentication service worth its salt would have noticed that the bag in the listing had a tag on it; whereas, the one the buyer submitted didn't (assuming the listing was still viewable).

Also, there would bound to have been differences evident between the auth bag in the listing and the fake bag submitted.

Obviously, they would still have declared the bag submitted a fake, but it would have been far more likely to come to light that there were two different bags involved.

So, yes, I think it can make a huge difference, TBH.
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#75
gsmom said:
This!! I bet you might have some recourse against paypal since they are the ones who brokered the payment/exchange. But you have to stick with the facts, no matter how angry you feel. You are only out the bag OR the money....NOT both.
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Ahhhhh OK! Sorry! You are all correct! Sorry, I am obviously not thinking logically here. Definitely! At the end of the day it is an $11K actual loss for me.

Thank you all for clearing me up!
 
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