WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

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#511
I have been reading this thread and I am just so disgusted by Paypal. I too have been scammed by a buyer on Ebay for a big amount gift card that I sold and I know what you are going through OP and I also know that Paypal do not care about seller's side and would rule in favor of buyer no matter what proof you would submit to them. Their "investigation" is a joke! All they want is to close your case and as long as they can take the money from you to pay the scammer buyer, they are happy. At the time, I had over 700 positive feedbacks and my buyer only 3 and I sold on Ebay and they did not care. I spent 3 days at the Police to file a report etc... and even my Police report, Paypal did not care...

Back to OP topic, I sincerely hope that you will succeed in your claim court against PP. Please do not give up, they must pay for their wrong doing. After you won your case, please, please try your best to go after that scammer in any way possible. Even if it's "only" harassment it will still be that. Please do not let that scammer get away with this so easily.
And also, just my opinion, but you said you googled buyer's name and it's more a male name, it doesn't mean the person who bought it from you is the person's who own this PP account. The wife, girlfriend or even sister could have used the account to pay for the bag. So it could be a male or female, you will never know for sure until you go after that person.
Wishing you all the best.
 
#513
BittyMonkey said:
Newspapers, bah. You want the business blogs chattering.
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kristie said:
Do you think I should write anything about going public with what they have done? I mean, it would be a shock to the senses of most people if they saw it on a blog or the consumerist, etc.
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35 pages later and my blood boils for you. I applaud how well you're able to discuss the issue with everyone here.

If I a may offer up some advice: NAME AND SHAME paypal. Hit up consumerist.com, a fantastic blog that has gotten many companies to do the right thing because they simply don't want the bad publicity, and every other national and regional consumer website and tell them how paypal assisted in you being defrauded.

Also, perhaps reach out to one of those "Help Me Howard" consumer affairs broadcast news journos who champion these types of causes.

The negative publicity may be enough for them to refund your money.
 
#514
creighbaby said:
35 pages later and my blood boils for you. I applaud how well you're able to discuss the issue with everyone here.

If I a may offer up some advice: NAME AND SHAME paypal. Hit up consumerist.com, a fantastic blog that has gotten many companies to do the right thing because they simply don't want the bad publicity, and every other national and regional consumer website and tell them how paypal assisted in you being defrauded.

Also, perhaps reach out to one of those "Help Me Howard" consumer affairs broadcast news journos who champion these types of causes.

The negative publicity may be enough for them to refund your money.
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Kirstie I know you said you want to wait before you go to the media, but when you do, I hope you consider the New York Times.

They have a similar section to the one mentioned in my quote called The Haggler. NYT is pretty reputable; even if they cannot get one penny of your money back I think the prestige of the NYT name is worth at least something.

Good luck! I'm glad you found a friend to help with the legal garble.
 
#519
missD said:
Time to get the local news involved.
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Exactly. But has the OP shown images to prove she was the victim of a buyer and not a seller?

I mean this it the type of story any local consumer reporter would dive his teeth into. But we have no real evidence. What a reporter needs is:

Proof the bag is real.
Proof the buyer received this bag.
Proof that PayPal took no steps to verify any information and just took a random document as proof to transfer thousands of dollars to a random claimant.

I'm not saying that isn't possible, but if it's real, make this story happen, rather than being a discussion on some board. If the first outlet won't take it move to the second. This is about a major corporation and not some schmuck taking you. What's stopping you from taking it to this extreme when it's such a huge portion of an average persons yearly income at stake?
 
#520
^read what the OP said. She has been advised not to do that yet. This is typical advice while a lawyer is trying to get info and work out a settlement. Contrary to what you are saying, only the threat of bad publicity will move PP to settle. Once you have made the bad publicity, there is little incentive, plus they are pissed. So it is a last resort.

OP isn't there yet.
 
#521
kristie said:
Yes, ITA this is where the "negligence" on PP's part comes into play.
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Kristie,

What exactly does the agreement say about their right to order destruction of fakes?

I am asking bc the agreement, if vague, will always be decided against them. And if it says they have such broad discretion that this fits into the contract, then I would say that their actions in allowing a buyer to submit such flimsy evidence, allowing a seller little appeal recourse before destruction of a bag the seller paid so much is a "bad faith" interpretation or excercise of that discretion. (did you pay 8 or 11 for it, bc that is likely all you would get here? Is its replacement value 8, 11, not at all?)

The main reason courts are hating PP is the onerous one-sided contract that offers too broad of discretion to PP. This is what the whole "keeping people's money too long" case was about. bad faith abuse of discretion.

There are some things you cannot contract away. Such as murder, and some things that you can contract away, but the terms must be actioned IN GOOD faith. An affidavit of destruction of such an expensive item when they know this type of thing is highly subject to fraud is either an abuse of that discretion, or the discretion was not exercised in good faith. And that would violate their own TOS and get you an award for damages.

The only other argument I see here is that their TOS are against public policy, and should be voided bc they encourage theft and fraud...
 
#522
jellyv said:
What if he didn't try to recover the VAT: why would Paypal care? The basis on which they made their decision was not about any activity other than the claim and the affidavit they have. And is it certain that everyone tries to reclaim duty and VAT in the case of receiving a fake? I'll bet there are many legitimate buyers who wouldn't either know to do that or wouldn't bother. So in itself it's hard to see why that would aid Kristie, legally.
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Yes, I agree.

If he didn't try to claim it back, I tend to think it would be regarded as circumstantial evidence, at best?
 
#523
taste4design said:
Speechless, good luck, consignment stores suddenly look very nice.
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I've heard a few horror stories about consignment stores too, lately, though.

One went bust, taking a client's Hermes bags with them and two others ignored the pricing requests of their clients and then refused to return their goods (despite being offered expenses to do so, I believe?), after several months of them not selling.

One of the above then, finally, returned a few items (not all!), but they were badly packaged and damaged, if I remember correctly?

No one way of selling things is anywhere near 100% safe, unfortunately.
 
#524
^unfortunately, there are always going to be corrupt and corrosive people in this world..

in this world, you have to go after these kind of people in the best way you can or

know how...in this circumstance, the seller shipped an authentic bag with

back up to prove it, the buyer says it was a fake.. pp made a determination

based on one opinion.. the buyer's.. PP wasn't interested in what the seller

could provide.. there is a big mistake here.. someone has to take responsibility for

telling the buyer that this bag should be destroyed.. what proof is there that the

bag has been destroyed?
 
#525
I am going to have nightmares about this tonight. PayPal totally SUCKS!!! And because they are not a bank, they get away with doing this. I am SO SORRY, op. Let this be a lesson to all of us!!
 
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