I just want to add something... I collect Pandora charms, and bought about $350 worth from a seller in China. The pictures on ebay were all authentic, but when I received them, they were definitely fake. Pandora is like many purse companies, and will not offer letters of authenticity, but being an avid collector, I can tell real from fake. Well, I opened a case and I did not want to return them to the seller because I knew that they would just resell them. Paypal told me to destroy them. Eventually, Paypal investigated and shut down the seller's shop since there were so many claims of fakes. Paypal did NOT have me sign anything saying that I would destroy them, but that was the verbal agreement - my money refunded and I was to destroy the charms. That was probably in 2009 or early 2010.
WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer
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Criminals do criminal things and take on risks. The points you raise above about the bank account would not be relevant in the case of a ring/partnership/organization, because the money flows differently than for an individual schmo.
I realize it's only a speculation, but it's legit to consider it being more than one lone scammer. That's all I meant to suggest.
we don't know what was on the customs form... we don't know if he paid any VAT
or duty... if he did pay, he still scammed the OP out of $11K.. whatever he paid, he still made out like a bandit..so, he got a bag for $11K possibly paid duty or vat... it can be sold and he still recoups alot of money....but, in the end, the trail starts out with his name and his address.. so he had to be willing to risk an awful lot to do what he did..
that is why I think he did it before and knew how to work it... this is a seller in the US
and he is in Canada...we don't know what the OP is going to do.. and we don't know if she has any recourse because as of now, PP is not cooperating with her and she now has an uphill battle with a very big company.. its she said versus he said vesus PP...
or duty... if he did pay, he still scammed the OP out of $11K.. whatever he paid, he still made out like a bandit..so, he got a bag for $11K possibly paid duty or vat... it can be sold and he still recoups alot of money....but, in the end, the trail starts out with his name and his address.. so he had to be willing to risk an awful lot to do what he did..
that is why I think he did it before and knew how to work it... this is a seller in the US
and he is in Canada...we don't know what the OP is going to do.. and we don't know if she has any recourse because as of now, PP is not cooperating with her and she now has an uphill battle with a very big company.. its she said versus he said vesus PP...
That's if he is dealing with a ring/fence/organized crime...the money
if he should sell it privately, could reflect in his account... most resller's
business wise, would want to pay by check.. not all, but many
would
exactly.
my point is if he indeed paid a high vat or duty, and didnt try to recoup after the bag was supposedly "counterfeit," it is evidence for kristie that it is a scam. Because any honest person would try to recoup ALL the fees if they bought something that was worthless.
but we dont know at this point what was paid on this item....
my point is if he indeed paid a high vat or duty, and didnt try to recoup after the bag was supposedly "counterfeit," it is evidence for kristie that it is a scam. Because any honest person would try to recoup ALL the fees if they bought something that was worthless.
but we dont know at this point what was paid on this item....
What if he didn't try to recover the VAT: why would Paypal care? The basis on which they made their decision was not about any activity other than the claim and the affidavit they have. And is it certain that everyone tries to reclaim duty and VAT in the case of receiving a fake? I'll bet there are many legitimate buyers who wouldn't either know to do that or wouldn't bother. So in itself it's hard to see why that would aid Kristie, legally.
There is no VAT in Canada. There is GST (goods and sales tax) and PST (provincial sales tax) and in some provinces, HST (a harmonized sales tax that is a blend of the two). On top of that, if the bag came through Canada Post, you would be assessed a duty on leather goods of (I believe) about 10 per cent but it may be slightly higher, like 12 per cent. Plus an $8 handling fee charged by Canada Post. Canada Customs operates within Canada Post, not separately, for items coming in through the USPS to CP.
If it was sent via courier then typically they have their own in house brokerage services and absolutely charge whatever is required based on the declared value of the package. Plus a brokerage fee; for UPS, this is about $50. You may be billed after the item is delivered or at the time of delivery; it varies.
A full declaration of $11,000 would likely result in about $1400 in GST/PST in most provinces, plus the actual duty on leather goods of at least $1100. If they have proof that the bag is fake, that's a fairly large sum they would possibly try to recover, I would think. But of course, there is no telling what their motives were or what they did with the bag when they got it.
If it was sent via courier then typically they have their own in house brokerage services and absolutely charge whatever is required based on the declared value of the package. Plus a brokerage fee; for UPS, this is about $50. You may be billed after the item is delivered or at the time of delivery; it varies.
A full declaration of $11,000 would likely result in about $1400 in GST/PST in most provinces, plus the actual duty on leather goods of at least $1100. If they have proof that the bag is fake, that's a fairly large sum they would possibly try to recover, I would think. But of course, there is no telling what their motives were or what they did with the bag when they got it.
I am at work right now so can only respond from my iPhone but checked in to read everyone's thoughtful responses.
CB, the VAT issues were discussed a few pages back although I am not sure which pages since this thread is quite extensive
I do not think customs opened the box and even if they did and saw the bag it would be irrelevant. The buyer claims she was sent a fake bag not that she received an empty box or a totally different bag.
Even if I saw this person with my own eyes with the bag, there is not really anything that could be done.
I have spoken with attorneys and my ONLY avenue is to pursue paypal NOT this scamming buyer.
CB, the VAT issues were discussed a few pages back although I am not sure which pages since this thread is quite extensive
I do not think customs opened the box and even if they did and saw the bag it would be irrelevant. The buyer claims she was sent a fake bag not that she received an empty box or a totally different bag.
Even if I saw this person with my own eyes with the bag, there is not really anything that could be done.
I have spoken with attorneys and my ONLY avenue is to pursue paypal NOT this scamming buyer.
There is no reason for pp to care... most sellers when they
ship say that the buyer is responsible for taxes or duty on the
item...and that most sellers won't mark an item as a gift or
used.. they put the full value of the item.. and here in the US
it is illegal for a seller to ship without correct info on the customs
form as many sellers have stated in their ads...
I have spoken again with another atty and was told the same thing.
I will have to pay a retainer plus hourly rate for an atty to pour over PP policy/contract.
The problem is I already know my user agreement (as CB kindly located) states PP has the right to order destruction of items they deem counterfeit through the course of THEIR investigation. Of course now we all know their investigations mean NOTHING because they only investigate ONE side..... The buyer's.
However, we ALL agree to this fine print horse $h&! When we sign up with them. If I had any idea this really was their idea of seller protection I would have never sold an LV bag let alone H!
Obviously, I am still brainstorming and making calls that do not cost money yet but I am starting to feel like I am screwed.
Paypal KNOWS this and the buyer KNEW this.
Maybe the buyer works for Paypal??? Who else would know how to scam THIS well and made sure NOT ONE piece of my solid evidence was looked at?
I know....... Conspiracy theory right? Kinda makes you wonder how corrupt Paypal really is.
I will have to pay a retainer plus hourly rate for an atty to pour over PP policy/contract.
The problem is I already know my user agreement (as CB kindly located) states PP has the right to order destruction of items they deem counterfeit through the course of THEIR investigation. Of course now we all know their investigations mean NOTHING because they only investigate ONE side..... The buyer's.
However, we ALL agree to this fine print horse $h&! When we sign up with them. If I had any idea this really was their idea of seller protection I would have never sold an LV bag let alone H!
Obviously, I am still brainstorming and making calls that do not cost money yet but I am starting to feel like I am screwed.
Paypal KNOWS this and the buyer KNEW this.
Maybe the buyer works for Paypal??? Who else would know how to scam THIS well and made sure NOT ONE piece of my solid evidence was looked at?
I know....... Conspiracy theory right? Kinda makes you wonder how corrupt Paypal really is.
I believe the buyer has done this before... he contacted pp knowing what their policy was with regard to fake/counterfeit items..
he probably knew exactly what pp would ask of him and he knew exactly what to do.
if he had any inkling that this could have been challenged by the OP who knows what he would have done... as soon as her proof of authenticity would have come into play, he probably would have backed down.. this is a very large sum of money for the OP to be out of.. pp really did not give her a chance to disprove the buyer's claim.. they just took his affadavit as proof enough... and someone at pp made a mistake..that's what is so wrong..
PP needs to re-evaluate their policies with regard to situations like this... PP just can't be that dismissive and not have proper people who as a third party could determine whether this item was authentic or not... its just ludicrous.. OP may wind up being an
example of what went wrong and pay a price a big price at that but cetainly if she can get PP by laws to be changed she will have accomplished a great deal.. she has to pursue any and all venues that can help her with this...
he probably knew exactly what pp would ask of him and he knew exactly what to do.
if he had any inkling that this could have been challenged by the OP who knows what he would have done... as soon as her proof of authenticity would have come into play, he probably would have backed down.. this is a very large sum of money for the OP to be out of.. pp really did not give her a chance to disprove the buyer's claim.. they just took his affadavit as proof enough... and someone at pp made a mistake..that's what is so wrong..
PP needs to re-evaluate their policies with regard to situations like this... PP just can't be that dismissive and not have proper people who as a third party could determine whether this item was authentic or not... its just ludicrous.. OP may wind up being an
example of what went wrong and pay a price a big price at that but cetainly if she can get PP by laws to be changed she will have accomplished a great deal.. she has to pursue any and all venues that can help her with this...
Again, I'm so sorry kristie.
I do not understand why PayPal is not obligated to disclose the information (fake document) that was provided by the buyer that caused them to determine that the bag was counterfeit. It's utterly ridiculous and does make me wonder if PP does indeed have something to hide.
It is obvious that PayPal offers no seller protection. The sad truth is that if a buyer even hints at doing a chargeback, PP will always side with the buyer. Why? Because PP will not risk losing their own money. They honestly do not care one iota about the seller because they've already taken their fees. I really hope that someone puts those thieving bastards out of business.
I do not understand why PayPal is not obligated to disclose the information (fake document) that was provided by the buyer that caused them to determine that the bag was counterfeit. It's utterly ridiculous and does make me wonder if PP does indeed have something to hide.
It is obvious that PayPal offers no seller protection. The sad truth is that if a buyer even hints at doing a chargeback, PP will always side with the buyer. Why? Because PP will not risk losing their own money. They honestly do not care one iota about the seller because they've already taken their fees. I really hope that someone puts those thieving bastards out of business.
Oh I CAN get copies of everything from paypal's not even half assed investigation BUT I have to obtain a court ordered subpoena..... Which means taking off of work and waiting in 5 different lines at the courthouse. I WILL do this as soon as I can no doubt.
Tomorrow I will be compiling my letter to paypal and will be emailing it AND mailing it AND faxing it AND sending it by singing telegram to every damn asshat that works for them. I am sending everyone from the president to the toilet scrubber my scathing letter.
I would also have an attorney write a letter for you to the buyer - demanding the return of the bag or you reserve the right to sue them for the value of the purse. That the item must be returned within xxxx days (give a time limit).
Send that mail with delivery confirmation. Also send a copy to the their local police department with a cover letter explaining that they filed a claim and got their $11,000 back and have not returned the authentic birkin bag that they received, nor attempted to.
You never know, the police there might want to go ask about this. Turn up the heat a little.
Send that mail with delivery confirmation. Also send a copy to the their local police department with a cover letter explaining that they filed a claim and got their $11,000 back and have not returned the authentic birkin bag that they received, nor attempted to.
You never know, the police there might want to go ask about this. Turn up the heat a little.
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