WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

[Melissa Ann]

Why on Earth do they let the buyer destroy anything? So prone to abuse! They should require that the buyer send it to them, where they have to decide if it is auth. Then they would be on the hook for their own negligence, In fact, isn't it negligent to even have such an easily abused policy?

 

[Love Of My Life]

I would also have an attorney write a letter for you to the buyer - demanding the return of the bag or you reserve the right to sue them for the value of the purse. That the item must be returned within xxxx days (give a time limit).

Send that mail with delivery confirmation. Also send a copy to the their local police department with a cover letter explaining that they filed a claim and got their $11,000 back and have not returned the authentic birkin bag that they received, nor attempted to.


You never know, the police there might want to go ask about this. Turn up the heat a little.

this thought was suggested early on.. OP says that this is a civil

matter and the police can't be brought in...what about the

fraud unit... think this buyer has scammed before.. its possible

that he has a police record already...

 

[Love Of My Life]

Hi there, no it is not a police issue......I am in law enforcement and the crime did not occur here where I live so they will not take one. Everything with Ebay/Paypal for the most part is a civil issue even though there is a huge loss for me. It can only be handled in civil court, not criminal court and the police do not take reports for what is considered a civil issue.

I sent paypal pics of the security tag, the craftsman stamp, EVERYTHING and they did NOT CARE. They told me it is all irrelevant because the buyer submitted paperwork showing the bag was not authentic. That is because she is a scammer and submitted a fake bag for authentication is my guess. PP will not tell me who "authenticated" the bag.

Paypal faxed her an affidavit to sign saying she "destroyed" the bag personally. Yeah right!!!!! They do not ask for pics of the destroyed bag, nothing......they just believe a signature from someone that scammed me out of a Birkin AND my money.

She is not even located in the US so the atty thing is not going to work either. It would be a civil case and there is nothing to even "prove" because she is going to say she "destroyed" the bag so it cannot even be used as evidence. They can't go search her house for it.

this was discussed early on by the OP

 

[kristie]

The good news about my pre paid legal support that I subscribe to is that an attorney WILL write a "scare" letter at no charge. I already have my five page letter I initially sent to PP that I plan to share with that law firm. In addition to the letter of authenticity, etc. I really only have to compile a letter to attach to ALL of that documentation to state that PP ordered the destruction of the bag and found in favor of the buyer, etc.

Not a whole lot to write really since I did hours of writing already when this mess began!

I DO plan on having a threat letter written by an atty sent to PP and the buyer.

If PP blows off my threats, then I will have to look into the small claims route.
I figure a letter from an attorney threatening a lawsuit will be more effective than ME saying it KWIM? It shows I already have representation lined up.

 

[Love Of My Life]

^anything you have to do... go for it... who knows the buyer may be intimidated by this letter... you never know...and anything & everything is worth a shot...again wishing you well in going after the buyer & pp...

 

[kristie]

Ok......even better news.
I finally got a hold of my friend who is a paralegal.
She said you CAN sue in small claims court in CA for up to $25k under something called a "Limited Civil Motion."

She is going to talk to one of the legal partners tomorrow to discuss what exactly we will be filing it under. Definitely contractual and some kind of negligence on PP's part for allowing and ordering destruction of an item soley on the buyer's information. I mean at MINIMUM PP should have requested photos of the "destroyed" bag...... Not that she couldn't have destroyed her own fake bag but still!! I mean it is $11k not $11.00!

I HOPE everything she said is accurate! It would be a MUCH better chance of getting my $$$$ back by actually filing a $11k suit against PP and slapping them with that.

Hopefully they roll over and give me my money WITHOUT a legal battle.

The best part is that she can go to the courthouse with me and help me do all of the paperwork since she is familiar with it.

 

[Vegas Long Legs]

A full declaration of $11,000 would likely result in about $1400 in GST/PST in most provinces, plus the actual duty on leather goods of at least $1100. If they have proof that the bag is fake, that's a fairly large sum they would possibly try to recover, I would think. But of course, there is no telling what their motives were or what they did with the bag when they got it.

What if the OP notifies these tax collectors that this bag is not fake. So buyer can't get her $1400.00 back. Would this be a crime in Canada for buyer to file a phony claim to get taxes back?
It probably won't help OP but this will at least 'cost' the buyer something.

 

[Love Of My Life]

Ok......even better news.
I finally got a hold of my friend who is a paralegal.
She said you CAN sue in small claims court in CA for up to $25k under something called a "Limited Civil Motion."

She is going to talk to one of the legal partners tomorrow to discuss what exactly we will be filing it under. Definitely contractual and some kind of negligence on PP's part for allowing and ordering destruction of an item soley on the buyer's information. I mean at MINIMUM PP should have requested photos of the "destroyed" bag...... Not that she couldn't have destroyed her own fake bag but still!! I mean it is $11k not $11.00!

I HOPE everything she said is accurate! It would be a MUCH better chance of getting my $$$$ back by actually filing a $11k suit against PP and slapping them with that.

Hopefully they roll over and give me my money WITHOUT a legal battle.

The best part is that she can go to the courthouse with me and help me do all of the paperwork since she is familiar with it.

this would be a blessing....and hopefully this "limited civil motion"

is accurate... and if they meaning PP they should just give you

your money back and let it all be finished...and yes, pp should

have required photos of the destroyed bag... someone over

at pp made an error in judgement...you go girl!!!!

 

[skislope15]

This is incorrect small claims court in ontario just moved there claim limit to $25,000.00

Hi guys, 3-5K is the max for small claims. It doesn't hurt to hire a paralegal or attorney to write a demand letter and letting them know you plan to go to court.

I had some idiot - whom I gave a GREAT price to - file a claim w/ Paypal after I sent dozens of pictures of a Chloe Tracy bag and disclosing all the defects I could see. Ebay without second guessing, returned her money and then tried to get the $ back from me and I went back and fought it. I got an email from someone at Ebay saying I was not responsible for paying it because I she failed to use signature required when returning the bag. BUT... Ebay was not acknowledging the email I received saying I DID NOT HAVE TO PAY IT BACK! So I didn't and cancelled my account.

I'm so hesitant to list anything valuable on Ebay, for one the fees are hardly worth it and they're such a pain. I have my LV Hudson that I was thinking about listing but it may not be worth it after all.

I'm sorry you're going through this, please don't let it go.

 

[mistikat]

What if the OP notifies these tax collectors that this bag is not fake. So buyer can't get her $1400.00 back. Would this be a crime in Canada for buyer to file a phony claim to get taxes back?
It probably won't help OP but this will at least 'cost' the buyer something.

Yes, filing a phony claim would be problematic for the buyer. But the OP hasn't said if she sent the parcel USPS or via courier, or which province the buyer was in.

Here is info on customs duty/Canada Post:
http://cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/publications/dm-md/d5/d5-1-1-eng.pdf

 

[thepoppet]

OP: If you go the small claims court route (and it's looking like you will) be sure to have all your ducks in a row. If PP explains to the court that it's in the user agreement that they can do this, make sure to have on hand the copy of the Calf. Court statement that says their User Agreement is unfair and bring that up. American court system is based on precedence and while this wasn't a ruling, the judge may still consider it.

 

[joyeaux]

Ok......even better news.
I finally got a hold of my friend who is a paralegal.
She said you CAN sue in small claims court in CA for up to $25k under something called a "Limited Civil Motion."

She is going to talk to one of the legal partners tomorrow to discuss what exactly we will be filing it under. Definitely contractual and some kind of negligence on PP's part for allowing and ordering destruction of an item soley on the buyer's information. I mean at MINIMUM PP should have requested photos of the "destroyed" bag...... Not that she couldn't have destroyed her own fake bag but still!! I mean it is $11k not $11.00!

I HOPE everything she said is accurate! It would be a MUCH better chance of getting my $$$$ back by actually filing a $11k suit against PP and slapping them with that.

Hopefully they roll over and give me my money WITHOUT a legal battle.

The best part is that she can go to the courthouse with me and help me do all of the paperwork since she is familiar with it.

Kristie I've been following this thread and am just sick for you. I can't offer much other than I am behind you supporting you and rooting for you 10000%. This latest news from the paralegal certainly is encouraging! I know, I just know there has to be some way to get your voice heard (forget the idiots at PP who are basically slamming phones in your face. Unfortunately I think they see you as "another customer" rather than a real person with a HUGE dilemma and that speaks volumes for that company to me.)

Huge hugs your way.

 

[kristie]

this thought was suggested early on.. OP says that this is a civil

matter and the police can't be brought in...what about the

fraud unit... think this buyer has scammed before.. its possible

that he has a police record already...

The fraud unit would be no different than the police. Trust me...... I have been a LEO for a long time...... They cannot take this as a criminal case. Police reports are only taken when they are going to be submitted to the district attorney for prosecution on a criminal matter. This is not criminal even though it seems like it should be. It is civil.

 

[kristie]

OP: If you go the small claims court route (and it's looking like you will) be sure to have all your ducks in a row. If PP explains to the court that it's in the user agreement that they can do this, make sure to have on hand the copy of the Calf. Court statement that says their User Agreement is unfair and bring that up. American court system is based on precedence and while this wasn't a ruling, the judge may still consider it.

Yes, ITA this is where the "negligence" on PP's part comes into play.

 

[skyqueen]

Dearheart...finger's crossed!!!