WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer
- Thread starter kristie
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I'm so sorry this happened to you OP.
Good Luck with your fight. I hope you nail this bastard to the wall.
Good Luck with your fight. I hope you nail this bastard to the wall.
craftsman stamp? you got your initials on it? what are the chances the buyer would have the same lol
still watching this thread for better turn out
Here is the craftman stamp (on one of my Birkin):
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Yes, of course - although, actually, I think that might be even more traumatic, don't you?!
Don't know if I could handle seeing my auth bag being destroyed? I'd probably come over all funny!
But, yes, I know what you mean, of course.
The thing is, though, that even if they had to send pics of the destruction, if the buyer is claiming that they received a fake and the fake is the bag they had authenticated; they will, naturally, only send PP pics of the fake being destroyed (rather than the auth they actually received), won't they?
So, their only loss would be the cost of the fake, anyway.
So, the real question is, would the loss of the cost of a fake, relative to the gain of the value of an auth, be sufficient to mean there was any real point in PP insisting on proof of the destruction of it (other than ensuring there was one less fake on the loose)?
Would it be a big enough loss to put anyone off claiming a false bait and switch?
Probably not, in the case of the cost of an Hermes fake, relative to the value of an Hermes auth, I would guess?
I suppose it would still be better than nothing, though?
I am sure PP's investigation into a buyer's claims would be a bit more thorough if they were "playing" with PP's money and not the Seller's money. I would love to really know what we sign up for when we agree to the User Agreement at PayPal. If they do not want to get involved in doing proper and fair "investigations", then maybe they should stay out of the Resolution Process all together. They told me over and over they are not law enforcement and if I was scammed I needed to take it up with the proper authorities... of course, they did not say this to the buyer though.
Most sellers and buyers believe that PP is the safer way to pay and be paid and assume they are protected from fraud and scams. They also read about PP's Resolution Process and assume PayPal has a team of highly trained investigators that look at each situation individually, apply facts and evaluate appeals. Because the Resolution Process is not automated, sellers surmise that the human component of logic and reason are applied to each case. Obviously, these "understandings" are not the case.
OP I am so sorry. I still can't believe the amount of $ we are talking about here... it is like the hypothetical situation I used with a PP Supervisor with the example of the Rolex watch (from my thread)... PP admits these scams can happen.
Most sellers and buyers believe that PP is the safer way to pay and be paid and assume they are protected from fraud and scams. They also read about PP's Resolution Process and assume PayPal has a team of highly trained investigators that look at each situation individually, apply facts and evaluate appeals. Because the Resolution Process is not automated, sellers surmise that the human component of logic and reason are applied to each case. Obviously, these "understandings" are not the case.
OP I am so sorry. I still can't believe the amount of $ we are talking about here... it is like the hypothetical situation I used with a PP Supervisor with the example of the Rolex watch (from my thread)... PP admits these scams can happen.
I have done the same thing. I have removed a couple of my account too. They cannot be trusted!
All PP is doing is protecting themselves from chargebacks. Pure and simple. That is their only goal in these dispute "investigations."
I also think after having read more on this, that some of this policy was put into place to address things like counterfeit flash drives and small electronics, which were inexpensive and easily destroyed, and usually fake and not good potential for a scam like described here. Also, there was some issue that by asking buyers to mail counterfeit items back to PP or the seller, PP was colluding in fraud, because it is illegal to use the US mail in this manner.
So.....this ill advised policy was a knee jerk reaction to something that should have been solved by a specific policy, not a blanket one.
So.....this ill advised policy was a knee jerk reaction to something that should have been solved by a specific policy, not a blanket one.
I think it's only illegal to send a counterfeit item through the USPS if you have profited from the merchandise.
If you're just returning the merchandise to the owner, you're not liable.
However, I do see that there are wider implications for Paypal.
I agree.
It is just BIZARRE how they pick and choose though. Just recently in the Ebay forum here, someone posted about how she bought a fake bag and filed a dispute with Ebay and they told her to send it back to the seller if she wanted a refund???? But hey, an $11K H bag? Aw hell, just throw it in the bin and we here at PP will call it a day.........It's not our $11K right?
The above that you posted is what is going to help me in a law suit though. Paypal has shown gross negligence in this fiasco. Their policies are SO VAGUE it is going to get them into trouble. I can feel it.
Yes, the second asshat supervisor I spoke with said that VERBATIM.
"Well, we have to find it in the buyer's favor as long as they showed us ONE piece of "evidence" the bag is fake. We cannot risk a chargeback from the buyer. What you as the seller provided us stating it is authentic, is irrelevant. It is the cost of doing business."
Yes, they really said that.
Awesome.
yes, i dont know all the ins and outs particularly of the laws, but this is what I read...I kept coming across the huge flash drive counterfeit situation, and it seems thats is was the touchstone for all of this policy change, and of course in that case, these flash drives were flooding the market and it seemed a quick policy was needed....
!!! no thought to the implications of sellers of authentic items, or possible scams, etc.
I also think it is a good talking point.....namely, that while the policy of protecting the buyer may be a good one when considering something like a non-function flash drive sent from any of several hundred sellers in Asia (which was the case), this same policy would also serve to aid a scammer who claims that an expensive item is counterfeit when it is not!!!
What if someone bought a real diamond and claimed it was CZ and got a refund!! What, they would sign an affadavit saying they destroyed it? Really???
I think that legally, this policy is rife with loopholes....what if you claimed you got a counterfeit motorcycle engine??? Or Patio Furniture????
I think there is a real legal leg to stand on if you consider that this Paypal Policy stems from a reaction to a tiny item that is easily determined to be counterfeit (because they dont function).
This policy can not be easily extrapolated to all instances of buyers claiming counterfeit items....I could claim I bought a counterfeit house, for heavens sake!!!
If you google paypal, flash drive, counterfeit....it spells it all out. And you can see easily that this cannot work with every item....
Amen and I could not agree more.
My BFF that is the paralegal was supposed to talk to one of the partners at her firm today.......hopefully she calls me tonight after she puts the baby to bed. She is a bulldog and wants to also file suit on the buyer just for the hell of it to shake them up. Thus far, I am definitely going thru with a suit against PP. I am waiting to hear back from her though so I can determine the order to do things.
I like to be prepared for stuff so I can go in with ammo and guns blazing.
My main concern is if I should do a court ordered subpoena BEFORE filing suit for paypal's "investigation" paperwork so that I KNOW exactly what this person sent to PP saying my bag was not authentic. For all I know, she used a good computer program and made up some Hermes letterhead, wrote a letter and signed it as an SA or craftsman (which H would NEVER IN A MILLION YEARS do). I mean, seriously. Paypal OBVIOUSLY does not follow up or validate anything.
Or, she submitted a fake bag for authentication.
I think it really has to be one of those two things.
1. Faked letter of non authenticity, or
2. Fake bag sent it to be authenticated and deemed fake.
I feel I need to have this information prior to filing suit. My friend said all of their "investigation" will be available to us during the "discovery" portion of the suit so I will eventually know anyways.
I just feel personally, that I would like to know beforehand.
IDK.
Oh yes........I was all over google for hours when this first went down and there was a TON of it. Smashing up a $30 flash drive is one thing but a $11K bag? I am just incredulous still.........Paypal is well........there really are no words.
To your other post, what if someone bought a fake Ferrari that was sold as legit? Does PP order it to be torched?? This method they deal with stuff has no rhyme or reason.
The ONLY thing I can think of is that LVMH and other companies sued the crap out of PP for fake bags, etc.
Maybe that is why they are uber-sensitive about that issue and just wipe their hands of it?
I wrote my bank today just for the hell of it and said that Paypal basically coerced me into depositing $11K into my account, took it, and never gave it back after I sold an item that should have been returned to me for a credit. I want to make them miserable as much as I can.
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