WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

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#572
I just closed my PayPal account. If I'm that desperate to buy or sell something, I will find a different way. I don't care. They're ridiculous and I voted with my wallet.

Not that I think they will cave under with the loss of my massive financial support...:p Still, they have a comment section when you close your account and you can bet that I used almost all of the 1000 characters they allow you for comments!
 
#575
thepoppet said:
PP (correctly in most cases) assumes that if they find in favor of the seller then the buyer will just do a chargeback with their credit card. And since the case would be closed, that chargeback would come out of their bottom line.
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Oy, that just seems so unfair to the seller. To use one of the phrases PayPal used on OP, PP should just accept that those random chargebacks are just the "cost of doing business."

If they truly look out for both sides, they wouldn't mind digging into their deep pockets for a chargeback here and there.

TBH, I didn't even know what a chargeback was before being in the ebay forum all the time. Many buyers may not even know they can do that.

I have cutback on eBay because of the forum lately, and I deactivated my PayPal acct altogether after reading this thread
 
#576
thepoppet said:
PP (correctly in most cases) assumes that if they find in favor of the seller then the buyer will just do a chargeback with their credit card. And since the case would be closed, that chargeback would come out of their bottom line.
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I'm really not sure what the purpose of the "investigation" is then. If a buyer states they are dissatisfied with a transaction and demands their money back, why not just return it immediately? All the time wasted on sham investigations and arguing with sellers comes out of their bottom line too. I just find their way of doing business in this area very strange.
 
#577
Lush Life said:
I'm really not sure what the purpose of the "investigation" is then. If a buyer states they are dissatisfied with a transaction and demands their money back, why not just return it immediately? All the time wasted on sham investigations and arguing with sellers comes out of their bottom line too. I just find their way of doing business in this area very strange.
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Part of the reason: The "investigation" is for the buyers so they don't file the chargeback (it's more efficient to deal with individuals than large credit card corporations). If you read the provided links you can see their whole business model was fundamentally flawed as it attracted scammers and chargebacks. Rather than closing shop, they instead transferred the "cost of doing buisness" to the seller. They followed the money. And really, how much does it really cost them to pretend to do an investigation? They, like any business, just pay people for customer service support. Their "fraud department" only consists of a few people. There is no/little investigation. That's why as Child of The Moon stated, they don't release any files, even under court order.
 
#579
How could they if the case had already been opened and closed and found in favor of the seller? Unless others here can describe experiencing that, I think it would violate their own TOS.
 
#580
Paypal can re-open the case in any time they wants, says that chargeback is out of their responsibility, it is the Buyer's credit card company request, or buyer can submited an appeal.
This is a true sellers nightmare.
 
#581
kristie said:
Oh yes........I was all over google for hours when this first went down and there was a TON of it. Smashing up a $30 flash drive is one thing but a $11K bag? I am just incredulous still.........Paypal is well........there really are no words.

To your other post, what if someone bought a fake Ferrari that was sold as legit? Does PP order it to be torched?? This method they deal with stuff has no rhyme or reason.

The ONLY thing I can think of is that LVMH and other companies sued the crap out of PP for fake bags, etc.

Maybe that is why they are uber-sensitive about that issue and just wipe their hands of it?

I wrote my bank today just for the hell of it and said that Paypal basically coerced me into depositing $11K into my account, took it, and never gave it back after I sold an item that should have been returned to me for a credit. I want to make them miserable as much as I can.
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Just wanted to add my best wishes to you OP. It's a horrific story. I do hope your tenacious friend can help you to sort this. Look after yourself as you must be absolutely churning over this.
 
#582
meandmylouis said:
Paypal can re-open the case in any time they wants, says that chargeback is out of their responsibility, it is the Buyer's credit card company request, or buyer can submited an appeal.
This is a true sellers nightmare.
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Ok, but isn't it easier for them (and more efficacious) to side with the buyer in the first place? PP ONLY has seller protection for INR, and only if you posted the item within their requirements. They have told countless sellers (including me) that they don't offer seller protection for SNAD. That's why, if you plan to sell high end items, you need to plan for ways that you can protect yourself without PP. I only sell in the US because I have the means to go after a buyer legally.
 
#583
thepoppet said:
Ok, but isn't it easier for them (and more efficacious) to side with the buyer in the first place? PP ONLY has seller protection for INR, and only if you posted the item within their requirements. They have told countless sellers (including me) that they don't offer seller protection for SNAD. That's why, if you plan to sell high end items, you need to plan for ways that you can protect yourself without PP. I only sell in the US because I have the means to go after a buyer legally.
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You are right.
Yes, to be able to go after buyer legally is the only way to protect our self from scamer buyers. I offer to ship internationally if buyer willing to pay via Bank Transfer.
 
#584
thepoppet said:
How could they if the case had already been opened and closed and found in favor of the seller? Unless others here can describe experiencing that, I think it would violate their own TOS.
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And why would that surprise you if they did that?

The thing that bothers me about this whole fiasco is that the seller never got a chance to see the "evidence" and defend herself and deny the buyer's allegations and the incorrect un-authenticity letter.

It seems to me to be in direct conflict of what any litigation would require and allow.

Although not at lawsuit/trial/court level, one would think that as in a court case where any evidence presented by the prosecution must be shown to the defense, in this case, the OP/seller is the defendent and she should have been allowed to see what was presented to the "judge," i.e., paypal.

I do hope that the OP wins her case against paypal and IMO, she should also be entitled to additional compensation for the infliction of emotional distress paypal caused her due to their negligence.
 
#585
We all know that PP doesn't employ best practices. But from a legal standpoint, wouldn't violating their own TOS leave them open to more legal action? Given that there are a lot of interests itching to take them down, wouldn't they be cautious about making themselves immediately and easily vulnerable to more lawsuits, I wonder?
 
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