That is why the true crooks (except in this case) usually do a SNAD. They know they are guaranteed to win.
WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer
- Thread starter kristie
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No, the buyer never claimed I did a bait and switch. They claimed I had a fake bag all along that I photographed on Ebay and sent to them. Nothing was said about a bait/switch.
It was less than 12 hours after the buyer submitted their "evidence." PP gave them 10 days to get a letter of non auth. After 10 days they were supposed to close the case if they received nothing. On the 10th day, the buyer submitted "something" because the very next day PP gave them ANOTHER three days to come up with a letter of non-auth. Clearly, the first one she sent was not "acceptable" to PP so they gave her another 3 days to get a letter EVEN THOUGH it was supposed to be closed after the TEN day period, which had now expired.
On the 3rd day, she faxed a letter of non-auth that apparently worked for PP.
Less than 12 hours after THAT letter was received by PP, the case was closed in the buyer's favor.
So sorry you are going through this nightmare!
I think the problem with their policy, as you pointed out it that it is so vague and not always enforced.
I bought a fake Mike and Chris jacket and when it came it was not even real leather. But, they had me send it back to the seller. No rhyme or reason to their policy, apparently.
Good luck with this-- it has made me think twice about selling, paypal, etc.
From what I understand- if the Seller wins a claim and the Buyer then does a chargeback, PP acts on the Seller's behalf. Lucky Seller!! I remember the Supervisor saying because PP uses its own resources to "fight" for you against the CC company you (the seller) are charged an additional fee for this "service". So, the Seller in the end would be out the original transaction cost and the fee since the supervisor said that it is very hard to win a chargeback... I am pretty sure the Seller is out the money if a chargeback is filed after PP was allowed you to win a claim. I do know that a person cannot file a claim with PP and win and then file a chargeback with their CC company (double dipping).
I am also wondering if PP doesn't get the transaction fee if a cargeback is filed... as well as if the buyer files a chargeback- do they have to return the item. I wonder if the CC would have been more active in the investigation and actually "investigated" fully to find the buyer at fault... and I guess PP would rather stop the chance of a chargeback from being filed that would waste more time (equal to money). Who knows... I am sure it comes down to what is more cost effective to PP.
Here is some info from PP's website:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=security/chargeback_guide#
If you've been notified of a chargeback, we'll help you sort it out.
Our team of chargeback specialists can help you build a case to take to the credit card company - assuming you have good reason to dispute it. We'll provide you with all the relevant transaction details and walk you through the steps for submitting information to the credit card company.
What to do if you receive a chargeback:
1.Log in to your PayPal account.
2.Go to the Resolution Center.
3.Respond to the chargeback notice or (check on the status of an existing one).
4.Provide PayPal with the information relating to the chargeback, including all transaction records (such as proof of shipment).
5.The PayPal chargeback specialist will then dispute the chargeback on your behalf and try to recover your funds from the buyer's credit card company.
6.If the credit card company decides in your favor, the buyer will be charged for the transaction and you'll get your money back.
7.If the decision is in favor of the buyer, the transaction will be cancelled and the buyer will receive a full refund.
It's PayPal's mission to help you resolve the dispute as quickly and painlessly as possible, but the process can be lengthy, so you'll need to be patient. It typically takes 30 days for PayPal to dispute the chargeback, and it may take your buyer's credit card company up to 75 days to resolve a chargeback and come to a final decision.
We can also help you reduce the risk of receiving chargebacks in the future.
Chargeback Coverage with PayPal Dispute Resolution
PayPal may protect you against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer files in relation to that particular transaction. To get the protection, you must honor the agreements you made with the buyer during the dispute resolution process. But we won't be able to offer protection if the claim has not been resolved by the time the chargeback is received.
Here is the Text under Chargeback Fraud
While most buyers file chargebacks for reasons they believe are legitimate, there are criminals out there who try to take advantage of the system.
The claims most often exploited for chargeback fraud are:
1.A scammer makes a legitimate purchase - but claims the transaction was not authorized.
2.A criminal pretends an item never arrived, or lies and says it arrived significantly different than it was described.
Knowing about chargeback fraud helps prevent you from becoming a victim. It is also a good idea to familiarize yourself with the ways to reduce the risk of legitimate chargebacks.
Learn more about avoiding and dealing with all types of fraud.
I am also wondering if PP doesn't get the transaction fee if a cargeback is filed... as well as if the buyer files a chargeback- do they have to return the item. I wonder if the CC would have been more active in the investigation and actually "investigated" fully to find the buyer at fault... and I guess PP would rather stop the chance of a chargeback from being filed that would waste more time (equal to money). Who knows... I am sure it comes down to what is more cost effective to PP.
Here is some info from PP's website:
https://cms.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=security/chargeback_guide#
If you've been notified of a chargeback, we'll help you sort it out.
Our team of chargeback specialists can help you build a case to take to the credit card company - assuming you have good reason to dispute it. We'll provide you with all the relevant transaction details and walk you through the steps for submitting information to the credit card company.
What to do if you receive a chargeback:
1.Log in to your PayPal account.
2.Go to the Resolution Center.
3.Respond to the chargeback notice or (check on the status of an existing one).
4.Provide PayPal with the information relating to the chargeback, including all transaction records (such as proof of shipment).
5.The PayPal chargeback specialist will then dispute the chargeback on your behalf and try to recover your funds from the buyer's credit card company.
6.If the credit card company decides in your favor, the buyer will be charged for the transaction and you'll get your money back.
7.If the decision is in favor of the buyer, the transaction will be cancelled and the buyer will receive a full refund.
It's PayPal's mission to help you resolve the dispute as quickly and painlessly as possible, but the process can be lengthy, so you'll need to be patient. It typically takes 30 days for PayPal to dispute the chargeback, and it may take your buyer's credit card company up to 75 days to resolve a chargeback and come to a final decision.
We can also help you reduce the risk of receiving chargebacks in the future.
Chargeback Coverage with PayPal Dispute Resolution
PayPal may protect you against any future claim, chargeback or bank reversal the buyer files in relation to that particular transaction. To get the protection, you must honor the agreements you made with the buyer during the dispute resolution process. But we won't be able to offer protection if the claim has not been resolved by the time the chargeback is received.
Here is the Text under Chargeback Fraud
While most buyers file chargebacks for reasons they believe are legitimate, there are criminals out there who try to take advantage of the system.
The claims most often exploited for chargeback fraud are:
1.A scammer makes a legitimate purchase - but claims the transaction was not authorized.
2.A criminal pretends an item never arrived, or lies and says it arrived significantly different than it was described.
Knowing about chargeback fraud helps prevent you from becoming a victim. It is also a good idea to familiarize yourself with the ways to reduce the risk of legitimate chargebacks.
Learn more about avoiding and dealing with all types of fraud.
So true! I purchased a fake LV wallet a few months back that was fake. I had a company verify that it was fake so I could send the info to paypal--they told me to mail it back to the seller. I was frustrated because the seller had been snippy and told me they would just sell it again under their mom's account (the mom was harassing me) to someone else. But paypal told me they couldn't legally take someone else's property. I argued with them and told them it was a fake, had the letter for proof, etc but paypal made me send it back (and pay to do so). I just find it ironic that when it's a $700 wallet they will let me send it back (and yes, the seller ended up scamming someone else a month later), but when it's a $11K bag they have them destroy it...
Yes- this is true. PP's own User Agreement and Seller Protection policy clearly states a Seller is NOT protected in the cases of SNAD. EX: You sell a black bag and send a pink one (or scammer gets black one and claims it is pink). Or as we have seen lately in these threads... sellers sells Hermes (LV, Chanel) bag and buyer/ scammer claims they receive a fake or kids backpack or some awful generic bag! Seems so obvious that this loophole is ABSOLUTELY abused!
OP, I am so sorry this has happened to you. I have read this whole thread and cannot believe what happened to you. Paypal really sucks! Although, my experiences with them have been quite the opposite. I had two instances in which I was the buyer and received a SNAD (fadded bag) and fake fendi spy. In both instances, I had to fight to the death as the buyer and both investigations were ruled in favor of the seller. It was crazy. Albeit, the fake fendi was bought a long time ago before all of these protections. I esentially had to sue PP and they reversed the charge immediately. With the SNAD, I just sucked it up and moved on.
The whole reason I share this is because although many people believe PP only rules in favor of the buyer, there are instances where they don't. I agree that PP needs more consistency and a more developed system of investigations.
The whole reason I share this is because although many people believe PP only rules in favor of the buyer, there are instances where they don't. I agree that PP needs more consistency and a more developed system of investigations.
So true! I purchased a fake LV wallet a few months back that was fake. I had a company verify that it was fake so I could send the info to paypal--they told me to mail it back to the seller. I was frustrated because the seller had been snippy and told me they would just sell it again under their mom's account (the mom was harassing me) to someone else. But paypal told me they couldn't legally take someone else's property. I argued with them and told them it was a fake, had the letter for proof, etc but paypal made me send it back (and pay to do so). I just find it ironic that when it's a $700 wallet they will let me send it back (and yes, the seller ended up scamming someone else a month later), but when it's a $11K bag they have them destroy it...
You know, it is just such bad business that you and I, and others, are told one thing and kristie is told another. There should be an actual policy that does involve verification and definitely some consistency across the board.
This is incorrect. As of November 2010, paypal provides buyer protection for SNAD for OFF EBay transactions. If the above policy you spoke of was still in place, I would have automatically won.
They offer SNAD for buyers, not sellers. That is what I'm talking about. The Nov. policy update was to protect buyers against SNAD outside of Ebay.
kristie, did you picture the craftsman stamp in the original eBay listing?
Also, did you mention, or picture, the tag in the original listing?
Sorry if I've missed the answers, earlier in the thread!
Also, did you mention, or picture, the tag in the original listing?
Sorry if I've missed the answers, earlier in the thread!
I can tell you with absolute certainly that that policy is in effect (PP covers SNAD and rules for buyers no matter what lies they make up) because that is exactly what my scammer did. The good news is I did get my bag back.
Keep us updated, Kristie. Hope they can't get away with this.
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