nope-a few years ago, on ebay, I bought a balenciaga that turned out to be fake and I had to sign something saying I would destroy the bag...it was definitely before Nov. 2010
WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer
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nope-a few years ago, on ebay, I bought a balenciaga that turned out to be fake and I had to sign something saying I would destroy the bag...it was definitely before Nov. 2010
The problem is, the item sold was not counterfeit. And sure as heck it wasn't destroyed. It was a Paypal error in judging it to be counterfeit, on a really shoddy basis. This is a different matter from dealing with a true counterfeit.
this particular transaction was not on ebay...
OMG... Grrrrrr... Sadly, the bag that I rec'd really SHOULD be destroyed. It wasn't even LEATHER!
I hate this for the OP. If you sell on Ebay do you HAVE to accept PayPal? I seriously want to be sick every time I read this thread.... I cannot imagine how the seller must feel.
^ yes, it was an error in judgement... the seller wrote a very detailed letter
with regard to authenticity to this bag..somebody at PP made a very big mistake
and the seller needs to know exactly why they told the buyer to destroy this bag..
something is not right here... think pp knows that they made a mistake and trying to be dismissive so that the seller won't go further??
with regard to authenticity to this bag..somebody at PP made a very big mistake
and the seller needs to know exactly why they told the buyer to destroy this bag..
something is not right here... think pp knows that they made a mistake and trying to be dismissive so that the seller won't go further??
no argument from me....its just that the user agreement says if you lose, thats what happens. Not if you lose unfairly, KWIM. Its pretty harsh.
And vague. Thats a good point for the lawyers, IMHO. Let Paypal prove it was counterfeit, for one, and that it was destroyed, for another. Otherwise, Paypal is in violation of the agreement, perhaps???
This is the worst, also the most expensive, scammer story I have ever read concerning PP/Ebay. NO descent seller should have to go through this...bottom line. SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT! Whether it's the system, itself, or the interpretation of the system...it stinks and should be overhauled. I'm hoping PP made a big mistake by having the scammer destroy the bag. Technically it would still be Kristie's bag, since the scammer got her money back. There have been many threads with the "alleged" fake being sold (and in some cases they were fake) returned to the seller. I would like to know what constitutes a bag being destroyed. Come to think of it, the only time I've heard of "bag destruction" is a problem involving customs...which is not the case in this instance.
We are here for you, Kristie!
I did contact the authentication firm for a referral and they told me an Intellectual Property atty is my best bet.
At this point, I have to get a court ordered subpoena for all of the paypal "investigative" records of what the buyer provided to them.
Until I get those records, I have nothing to even show to an attorney as that is going to be the very first thing requested since that is the purported basis for paypal's decision.
Pp did not say if anything would be different if it were on eBay. They said EVERY time there is a SNAD for a supposed counterfeit item, they have to protect THEMSELVES from lawsuits from Hermes, LV, etc. Therefore, the buyer only has to show one thing stating it is not authentic regardless of what the seller shows.......REGARDLESS. So they can submit a fake bag for authentication and win back all their money plus a free authentic Hermes bag.
Keep in mind PP NEVER asked me to supply ANY proof of my bag's authenticity at any point. I did so to protect myself and even paid $150 for an official letter of authenticity..... NONE of it helped me one bit all because she produced some BS that my bag was not authentic.
This enrages me beyond belief, both for the fact that you are going through this and the fact that Paypal's deficient policies could result in ANY of us going through the same exact thing at any time. I've said it a million times before and I will say it again- I hate paypal!!!!! They could be so great if they changed their policies and did their jobs, instead they keep making these blanket rules and keep all their investigations so opaque nobody can protect themselves from scammers.
Since this is an international and civil matter, I would pursue legal action against paypal instead of the buyer. The latter would be far too difficult and expensive. Since paypal is in the US and was the one who officially took your money from you after their "investigation" and had your $9k bag destroyed, they seem like the easier target. After you go after them, they will likely go after the scammer who took their money. I would search for a good attorney who would file a civil claim against paypal and only take payment on a percentage of the judgment. Let them look over paypal policy in general and show them how there might be grounds for class action suits against paypal for the practices. The possibility of windfall judgments in the future might make your particular case more enticing. I doubt this is the first time paypal has done something like this. You may even be able to find an attorney familiar with suing paypal or one who has a class action in the works.
Also, though this is really beside the main point of what's going on here, It might be helpful when presenting your case. Unless there's some sort of mathematical formula I am not familiar with on this one, I think your loss was $11k not $20k. You paid $9k for the bag and sold it for $11k, but you don't add the two together to calculate your loss because you wouldn't get her $11k PLUS the bag ($9k value), you would only get her money OR the bag. Since you got $11k for the bag and that was taken away from you, you lost $11k...kwim?
Since this is an international and civil matter, I would pursue legal action against paypal instead of the buyer. The latter would be far too difficult and expensive. Since paypal is in the US and was the one who officially took your money from you after their "investigation" and had your $9k bag destroyed, they seem like the easier target. After you go after them, they will likely go after the scammer who took their money. I would search for a good attorney who would file a civil claim against paypal and only take payment on a percentage of the judgment. Let them look over paypal policy in general and show them how there might be grounds for class action suits against paypal for the practices. The possibility of windfall judgments in the future might make your particular case more enticing. I doubt this is the first time paypal has done something like this. You may even be able to find an attorney familiar with suing paypal or one who has a class action in the works.
Also, though this is really beside the main point of what's going on here, It might be helpful when presenting your case. Unless there's some sort of mathematical formula I am not familiar with on this one, I think your loss was $11k not $20k. You paid $9k for the bag and sold it for $11k, but you don't add the two together to calculate your loss because you wouldn't get her $11k PLUS the bag ($9k value), you would only get her money OR the bag. Since you got $11k for the bag and that was taken away from you, you lost $11k...kwim?
Thanks for the info...but it doesn't state WHO will destroy the bag. Most people would assume PP would dispose of the bag. A lot different then trusting a scammer to do the job.
Ambiguous at best. LOL...leave it to PP!
You are certainly entitled to get snappy. I think that everyone here can understand that this is incredibly stressful for you. I just went through a case where the scammer got her $750.00 back and even that made me feel awful for the couple of weeks that it was going on - I can't imagine what you must be feeling with the kind of money you're dealing with.
I think the issue here is that the bag was not counterfeit and the OP was not allowed to prove that and PayPal will not share information regarding how this was determined. The buyer had a letter but from whom? How and by whom and when was the bag destroyed and on and on. The statement that PayPal continues to make about "security" when they will not disclose pertinent information regarding their decisions is BS and should be exposed as such. In the "real" world, if you destroy other peoples property, you are held accountable - no matter what it is.
agreed. dont shoot the messenger...I just posted the agreement to show how vague it is.
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