WARNING, Paypal just made me lose $20 THOUSAND dollars from a scamming buyer

[*Heather*]

What I still can't fathom is the fact OP (a seasoned ebay seller) would even think about selling such an expensve item, to a 'newbie', out of the country, OFF ebay! (triple whammy!) I mean, maybe a $2K profit, (minus having to pay ebay fees) clouded your judgement? I can't imagine you wouldn't have the slightest doubt in your mind that this could happen. I feel sick about this happening to anyone, but somehow it seems you could have prevented it. I think most people reading this are thinking the same thing. (Or at least those of us who can't afford to be out $11k) But the warning signs were all there. Please, don't be so trusting...people DO suck.

 

[*Heather*]

By the way, did you google the address where you sent the bag? Is it a residence or business? (Maybe you mentioned earlier, but I may have missed it) I'd be out there in a heartbeat if it were me. I'd even question the postal service to see if they remember anything, like who signed for it, description, etc. But do it before too much time passes.

 

[mmmsc]

Oh Kristie, I am so so sorry to hear this tale. My god this story makes my scammer look like a piece of cake (she bought the bag, "loved" it, then did a SNAD chargeback 2 1/2 weeks later, but she did return the bag.)
I am just amazed that PP can continue this BS of letting scammer buyers pull this over and over. Please let us know if anything changes here. Lawsuit city for PP is you ask me.

 

[shida25]

That is awful... you gotta fight for what is right.... people are awful... scammers... that is too much money to just let it go...

 

[mmmsc]

Paypal should have made her send the bag back at minimum. No way should she be allowed to get her $ and keep the bag. This is only going to encourage others to lie.

OP I am just sick for you. I can't believe how horrible Paypal is being.

She probably would have just sent Kristie back a fake bag. That is what I was so fearful my scammer would do. This is just unbelievable. Listen to Schnauzer's advice about filing the case. Sounds right to me.

 

[vhdos]

What I still can't fathom is the fact OP (a seasoned ebay seller) would even think about selling such an expensve item, to a 'newbie', out of the country, OFF ebay! (triple whammy!) I mean, maybe a $2K profit, (minus having to pay ebay fees) clouded your judgement? I can't imagine you wouldn't have the slightest doubt in your mind that this could happen. I feel sick about this happening to anyone, but somehow it seems you could have prevented it. I think most people reading this are thinking the same thing. (Or at least those of us who can't afford to be out $11k) But the warning signs were all there. Please, don't be so trusting...people DO suck.

Yes, we hate to see this kind of things happen to anyone, but OP certainly could have been more careful with this one. I think that it's a difficult thing to prevent (100%), but there are some things that you can do to protect yourself along the way. I still hope that it works out for OP though. No one deserves to be scammed.

 

[kristie]

I truly appreciate everyone's input but I will NOT go down the road of "She should have known better, she should have seen the red flags."

FYI I have done a lot of high dollar transactions with 0 FB buyers after a lot of well established contact. This buyer was no different. We had great emails, etc. A repor was built and established and I sold her the bag believing I was protected by PP seller protection.

Did I get burned??? Yes I did. Could this have also happened with a high FB buyer? Yes.

I will simply not respond to the, "Why would you trust this buyer, you shouldn't have" questions.....

I actually went above and beyond what most sellers do with their bags. Could I have done more? Hindsight 20/20 and Monday morning quarterbacking, why yes I guess I could have with some kind of third party verification and letter of authenticity with THAT bag when I shipped it.

It is easy to pick apart the mistakes people have made when you are not in their shoes.

 

[skyqueen]

What I still can't fathom is the fact OP (a seasoned ebay seller) would even think about selling such an expensve item, to a 'newbie', out of the country, OFF ebay! (triple whammy!) I mean, maybe a $2K profit, (minus having to pay ebay fees) clouded your judgement? I can't imagine you wouldn't have the slightest doubt in your mind that this could happen. I feel sick about this happening to anyone, but somehow it seems you could have prevented it. I think most people reading this are thinking the same thing. (Or at least those of us who can't afford to be out $11k) But the warning signs were all there. Please, don't be so trusting...people DO suck.

I know you mean well but pointing this out will not help the situation as it stands, now.
OP has to think ahead, as we all do...what's done is done.
PP is to blame for all of this. None of this would have happened if common sense prevailed. As a seller you should have some kind of protection.
But you are right...some people do SUCK!

 

[*Heather*]

I know you mean well but pointing this out will not help the situation as it stands, now.
OP has to think ahead, as we all do...what's done is done.
PP is to blame for all of this. None of this would have happened if common sense prevailed. As a seller you should have some kind of protection.
But you are right...some people do SUCK!

I realize it may have sounded harsh, but I get mad that these scammers are taking advantage of honest sellers. I am just about to end my current auctions on ebay right now. This is scaring me.

 

[vhdos]

I truly appreciate everyone's input but I will NOT go down the road of "She should have known better, she should have seen the red flags."

FYI I have done a lot of high dollar transactions with 0 FB buyers after a lot of well established contact. This buyer was no different. We had great emails, etc. A repor was built and established and I sold her the bag believing I was protected by PP seller protection.

Did I get burned??? Yes I did. Could this have also happened with a high FB buyer? Yes.

I will simply not respond to the, "Why would you trust this buyer, you shouldn't have" questions.....

I actually went above and beyond what most sellers do with their bags. Could I have done more? Hindsight 20/20 and Monday morning quarterbacking, why yes I guess I could have with some kind of third party verification and letter of authenticity with THAT bag when I shipped it.

It is easy to pick apart the mistakes people have made when you are not in their shoes.

I don't think that anyone is saying that you should have known better. Some posters were simply pointing out various ways to protect yourself. As I said before, no one deserves to get burned. Regardless of how it all went down, you still found yourself in an extremely unfortunate situation. I sincerely hope that you can find a positive outcome. Please keep us updated. *Crossing fingers* for you.

 

[*Heather*]

This whole thread makes me want to start some sort of 'third-party Paypal approved shipping authenticator' where you are required to have your expensive items packed by an authorized party, where they record and notarize what you have sent out. This way, you would definately not have any issues as to what was actually sent. Hmmm...maybe this is the future of ebay?

 

[karen02840]

I don't think that anyone is saying that you should have known better. Some posters were simply pointing out various ways to protect yourself. As I said before, no one deserves to get burned. Regardless of how it all went down, you still found yourself in an extremely unfortunate situation. I sincerely hope that you can find a positive outcome. Please keep us updated. *Crossing fingers* for you.

The more i think about this, the more it bothers me....besides the fact that this is so bloody unfair.

While the feedback is irrelvant, since this was not an Ebay sale. Surely, your standing as a seller with PAYPAL, should have had signifcant impact, on their "ruling"? Yet they chose to ignore your history with them and any proof you, THEIR customer offered to them.

It completely baffles me that someone at Paypal would instruct that the EVIDENCE be destroyed. Unless they, (Paypal) has something to hide?
Perhaps it became apparent that they had mishandled this, and needed to destroy the proof of their error, to hide the mistake?

e.i....If the murder weapon is gone, impossible to find fingerprints?

Unfortunately, on more than one occassion I have purchased a counterfeit item, on Ebay. After filing a SND claim, and listing COUNTERFEIT. Ebay has ALWAYS instructed me to return the item to the seller. I even expressed concern about it being re-sold. I suggested perhaps, sending it to Ebay?....Nope...Ebay required me to return the item to the seller, if I wanted a refund......

I just doesn't add up.........

 

[inspiredgem]

I think the OP did everything she could to protect herself. She had the bag authenticated with documentation and she had attached security tags to the bag. In this case, the 'shipping authenticator' would have added no value as the buyer did not file an INR or a SNAD - she claimed the bag was counterfeit.

What is insane is the fact that PayPal apparently was satisfied with whatever forged/falsified documentation the buyer provided that deemed the bag as counterfeit as well as her signed document assuring them that the 'fake' was destroyed.

I am appalled and disgusted with PayPal. I just can't understand why they did not give any merit to the seller documentation. And the BS about not allowing an appeal because the bag was destroyed is mind boggling. PP was the one who demanded the bag to be destroyed thus eliminating any chance for an appeal. I've never heard of such an incredibly flawed system.

PayPal and eBay can suck it.

 

[kristie]

I just want to reiterate how thankful I am for everyone's support.

If I sound ungrateful or snappy at any time it is only because I am extremely stressed out from this. I did not sleep last night even though I was exhausted from a 10K run/race that was very challenging. I came home from my race happy but drained only to find the emails sent by paypal. The physical and mental exhaustion as well as feeling helpless because of Paypal's decision is just the WORST feeling. It is indescribable how I feel. It is like justice and sense of right and wrong does not exist.

I feel like my chance at a case is gone because paypal had the main piece of "evidence" destroyed!! Maybe them ordering it's destruction will be a blessing in disguise from a legal standpoint. Perhaps paypal ordering someone to destroy property that was not theirs AND the buyer got a refund, will somehow help me?

I have so many thoughts swirling in my head I feel delirious.

 

[karen02840]

the more i think about this, the more it bothers me....besides the fact that this is so bloody unfair.

While the feedback is irrelvant, since this was not an ebay sale. Surely, your standing as a seller with paypal, should have had signifcant impact, on their "ruling"? Yet they chose to ignore your history with them and any proof you, their customer offered to them.

It completely baffles me that someone at paypal would instruct that the evidence be destroyed. Unless they, (paypal) has something to hide?
Perhaps it became apparent that they had mishandled this, and needed to destroy the proof of their error, to hide the mistake?

E.i....if the murder weapon is gone, impossible to find fingerprints?

Unfortunately, on more than one occassion i have purchased a counterfeit item, on ebay. After filing a snd claim, and listing counterfeit. Ebay has always instructed me to return the item to the seller. I even expressed concern about it being re-sold. I suggested perhaps, sending it to ebay?....nope...ebay required me to return the item to the seller, if i wanted a refund......

I just doesn't add up.........

...it.....