The Atlantic: Fashion’s Racism and Classism Are Finally Out of Style

[Mimmy]

I forgot to add my theory (not backed by anything but my personal experience (spending way too much time on TPF)

when I report a post, it’s because I think the poster is unduly rude or trolling or aiming to cause a fight on a thread. Or if a poster posts two of the same on different forums. Mods seems to sometimes accept the reporting of the first and tend to ignore the reporting of the second.

im not sure mods are equipped to spend the time to parse the intent of content one deems to be a microagression. if the post, on its face, has a justifiable POV other than malignment (is that even a word) of a marginalized group, I think that the prevailing philosophy is to give the post originator the benefit of the doubt. i left TOF for 8 or 9 years I think bc I got tired of some members. Now I press the ignore button.

Nor am i certain that there should be a safe space on TPF. I kind of think so long as people are polite towards each other and not inciting violence or criminal activity (I’m sure there are other factors but you know what I mean), threads should be allowed. just as this one is allowed. At some point in this threads history, some members came in with combative attitudes, and I believe their posts were also removed. I personally think a political thread should be allowed but it clearly isn’t bc no moderator wants to spend 100% of time breaking up fights. I don’t see this as an institutional microaggresion. JMO

I agree that microaggression can sometimes be very subtle or nuanced. I also agree that people may not realize what they are saying could be perceived as a microagression. I agree 100% that mods do not have the time to try to determine what constitutes a microagression when it is not clear cut or maybe at all. I could see why calling out other members on a perceived microagression could lead to conflict. Personally I think that I would like to be. I am always willing to be made aware of something being perceived as being offensive. I guess I could then decide if it is something I want to avoid saying in the future or I can decide if it’s a “woke culture” thing. I could also determine that it is my right to have that opinion. I also dislike the overuse of the term “woke” but it is obviously here to stay, at least for now.

On this forum if I question it, I do not report what I perceive as microagressions. When I have reported posts I have reported things that I thought were clearly offensive. As with all things, I realize what is offensive to me might be perfectly okay to someone else. Sometimes the posts have been removed and a few times they have not. The mods do a great job overall and I admit it is not a job I would want to do.

In relation to what I perceive as a microagression directed at me in my personal life I now take a different approach. I do not always ignore it or let it go. I may want to point out why I feel that something is not appropriate to say to me or ask of me or I may just not answer. Depending on the situation I may still let it go though.

 

[OriginalBalenciaga]

I made the decision that I would rather be "woke" than the alternative so I realize my views may be automatically discounted by many on tpf but here goes...

It makes me sad that multiple POC have expressed that they don't feel welcome or supported in this space. To me that indicates there is a problem.

I totally agree with you @880 about the confusion surrounding micoraggressions. Like @Mimmy I hope most people want to know if they have inadvertently said something hurtful so they can learn and grow. That is why every organization I work with (professionally or as a volunteer) has added a DEI component to their efforts, whether it's being deliberate about representation, education, training, etc.

I understand tpf wants to be an escape from the world, a chance to shallowly obsess, but isn't it also important to make sure all members know they are welcome and included and valued? Isn't that really what "safe space" ultimately means...?

 

[QuelleFromage]

I made the decision that I would rather be "woke" than the alternative so I realize my views may be automatically discounted by many on tpf but here goes...

It makes me sad that multiple POC have expressed that they don't feel welcome or supported in this space. To me that indicates there is a problem.

I totally agree with you @880 about the confusion surrounding micoraggressions. Like @Mimmy I hope most people want to know if they have inadvertently said something hurtful so they can learn and grow. That is why every organization I work with (professionally or as a volunteer) has added a DEI component to their efforts, whether it's being deliberate about representation, education, training, etc.

I understand tpf wants to be an escape from the world, a chance to shallowly obsess, but isn't it also important to make sure all members know they are welcome and included and valued? Isn't that really what "safe space" ultimately means...?

Could not agree with you more. Things have been said, and defended, here in multiple threads (including the one recently discussed) that are not even "micro" in any way.

 

[Mimmy]

I made the decision that I would rather be "woke" than the alternative so I realize my views may be automatically discounted by many on tpf but here goes...

It makes me sad that multiple POC have expressed that they don't feel welcome or supported in this space. To me that indicates there is a problem.

I totally agree with you @880 about the confusion surrounding micoraggressions. Like @Mimmy I hope most people want to know if they have inadvertently said something hurtful so they can learn and grow. That is why every organization I work with (professionally or as a volunteer) has added a DEI component to their efforts, whether it's being deliberate about representation, education, training, etc.

I understand tpf wants to be an escape from the world, a chance to shallowly obsess, but isn't it also important to make sure all members know they are welcome and included and valued? Isn't that really what "safe space" ultimately means...?

I agree.

I thought about editing my post as I was using “woke” somewhat facetiously. Again, subtleties can be lost in the written form. If I am “woke” I will own it.

 

[sdkitty]

I agree.

I thought about editing my post as I was using “woke” somewhat facetiously. Again, subtleties can be lost in the written form. If I am “woke” I will own it.

I think the word "woke" has now become in insult directed at liberals....no one wants to be called that these days

 

[Mimmy]

I think the word "woke" has now become in insult directed at liberals....no one wants to be called that these days

Again I was being somewhat facetious, I realize that “woke” is often used as an insult now.

The original meaning of woke was “alert to injustice in society, especially racism”. Taken in it’s original meaning I can live with it.

 

[sdkitty]

Again I was being somewhat facetious, I realize that “woke” is often used as an insult now.

The original meaning of woke was “alert to injustice in society, especially racism”. Taken in it’s original meaning I can live with it.

I'm aware of the origin but its been turned into an insult now IMO. Used as a code word.

 

[880]

In relation to what I perceive as a microagression directed at me in my personal life I now take a different approach. I do not always ignore it or let it go. I may want to point out why I feel that something is not appropriate to say to me or ask of me or I may just not answer. Depending on the situation I may still let it go though.

Agree 100%

But, unless I get really fed up (usually with newcomers who don’t use the search button; for those seeking validation for baseless defects and subsequent returns of expensive items; for those who are clearly just out for QBs and SAs to get them there; or, finally for the entitled who are bitter that the rules have changed; I try to give the benefit of the doubt or ignore.

This is a bit off topic to microaggresion, but there was a thread criticizing a valued longtime member of TPF who was originally not named. The OP was totally presenting only one side, and there were definite exonerating circumstances that were omitted. The member didn’t feel it would be appropriate to speak up (bc it would cause definite drama) and did not. various members spoke in her defense; and of course there were some detractors. But, many members, totally ignorant of circumstances or past history, jumped in to attack bc OP painted a very sympathetic version of events.

Early in the thread, Before I knew who the subject of the thread was, or the circumstances, I posted giving a solution that the OP didn’t like. I then received a PM from OP accusing me of deliberately stirring up trouble or being a troll. Was I going to report it. No, why bother. You cannot convince people if they are insistent on the wrong path. Nor can you convince them of your own good faith when they so clearly don’t believe you.

The PM from the OP, who I did not know, actually didn’t bother me so much as another thread post. It was from a member who was definitely not aware of the actual facts. And, it was both pompous and ill informed. And said in such as way as to be highly critical. Since I knew her, I PMed her to let her know that perhaps there were details not known to the thread readers and she should not be so hasty in judgment. She replied that she knew better (perhaps she PMed the OP, IDK.

So, I left it alone. I stayed off a favorite thread for a while bc she was a regualr poster there. And to make a long story short, that is when I learned about the ignore button. I have been on TPF from 2008-2012; took a long hiatus of many years, then came back. I usually give everyone the benefit of the doubt as a general rule. I decided to stay on TPF and just press ignore.

This situation does not deal with aggression towards a marginalized class. But, there were definite classist undertones, and many of the posters who posted against were in favor of an approach that I think played into a status classist tone that was ugly. I feel that the ignore button solution, while imperfect, was the right solution for me. I can totally understand why others step away bc in the past I have done so myself.

 

[Mimmy]

I decided to stay on TPF and just press ignore. Of course this situation does not deal with aggression towards a marginalized class. But, I feel that the solution, while imperfect, is the same.

I will clarify in advance that I am not trying to be cute or sarcastic in any way, 880. Again, the subtleties of the written word. The part of my post that you highlighted is how I now deal with people I am face to face with.

How I wish that irl some people had an ignore button. I think that if it was in the center of their chests it would be perfect. I could then simply hit the “ignore button” and that would be that!

The visual on this really made me smile.

 

[880]

I will clarify in advance that I am not trying to be cute or sarcastic in any way, 880. Again, the subtleties of the written word. The part of my post that you highlighted is how I now deal with people I am face to face with.

How I wish that irl some people had an ignore button. I think that if it was in the center of their chests it would be perfect. I could then simply hit the “ignore button” and that would be that!

The visual on this really made me smile.

I totally agree with you! 100%

 

[OriginalBalenciaga]

I think the word "woke" has now become in insult directed at liberals....no one wants to be called that these days

It is definitely meant as an insult by many but again I'll happily take the label based on the original meaning (and the alternative). It's a shame how often it is used now to further divide an already dangerously fractured society. Even on the thread in question it was referenced as a reason for the heinous attack on Salman Rushdie

 

[coldbrewcoffeekate]

I made the decision that I would rather be "woke" than the alternative so I realize my views may be automatically discounted by many on tpf but here goes...

It makes me sad that multiple POC have expressed that they don't feel welcome or supported in this space. To me that indicates there is a problem.

I totally agree with you @880 about the confusion surrounding micoraggressions. Like @Mimmy I hope most people want to know if they have inadvertently said something hurtful so they can learn and grow. That is why every organization I work with (professionally or as a volunteer) has added a DEI component to their efforts, whether it's being deliberate about representation, education, training, etc.

I understand tpf wants to be an escape from the world, a chance to shallowly obsess, but isn't it also important to make sure all members know they are welcome and included and valued? Isn't that really what "safe space" ultimately means...?

For a long time, TPF told me they were fine with racism. Unfortunately, it took me longer than it should have to hear what they were saying.

TPF is about money and clicks, and until they’re incentivized or forced to change, they won’t. I take some solace in seeing that when TPF is mentioned pretty much anywhere else on the Internet, it’s given the description and summation it deserves.

 

[dangerouscurves]

I saw, I noted, it's weird. I checked, unfortunately, it doesn't violate any tPF rules. Some people (of any background) can be racist towards certain races and nationalities and think they're not being racist. While it's fashionable to look 'woke' in one direction, the same people often do exactly what they're telling others not to do. I actually believe she's being genuine.

BTW, I think it's great that people question beauty and fashion standards, but since luxury comes from court (as in royal courts) it's a bit rich (pun intended) to complain (or even explain) that it operates as an exclusive club. That's kinda the point. Just check out tPF's members' lists of bag hierarchies. Are we arguing for rich white people to keep their money? I don't know if people know this, but not all rich people are white either. I am not in the market to buy a $100K handbag nor fast fashion brands, but I have absolutely nothing against someone doing so if that's their heart's desire.

There's very few industries that women from all round the world make-up such a large percentage of workers, some the bread-winners of their families, some of these rely on commerce to feed themselves and others. Even in the West, it nearly always takes 2 wages to pay-off an average mortgage and keep a roof over head. Fashion has been just about the only creative industry actually making any money in recent times. To pick on fashion as the evil villain and leave out the rest of industry is also a tradition - of patriarchy. Only 14% of women run the top 50 fashion brands - and most of it is not menswear https://www.forbes.com/sites/pamdan...n-power-positions-mean-more-female-customers/ If you want to know where most of the wealth is, look globally, it's mostly not in female hands.

Racism towards anyone is not OK, including on tPF (please report if you see, that is in the rules)

Time has changed. A few hundred years ago, only blue-blooded people can lead a country, now a carpenter's son can as well. That's why these luxury houses now a days are getting their inspiration from the street wear, especially from the black community.

 

[mrsinsyder]

The new thread in the celebrity sub-forum is… disappointing.

 

[sdkitty]

The new thread in the celebrity sub-forum is… disappointing.

what thread?