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#106
Hope to see you more often here, Clint!

And you too, Mafoofan......bless your heart, your post "over there" put a little spark in things over here....;)
 
#107
mistikat said:
Icarus, I would call the luxury brands capitalists before I would call them sexist. I also believe they understand very well that the best way to make people desire their products is by limiting access to them and creating a sense that only the privileged few can have them. I witnessed people lining up outside LV and Chanel in Paris recently, where potential buyers were limited to a single bag apiece. And saw Hermes telling prospective customers that they would be limited to a single Birkin and Kelly per year. It seems almost counterintuitive - at those prices, turning people away, in this economy?

And yet, I think in the case of Hermes in particular, if the bags really were seen on the arm of every actress and celeb and wannabe, their desirability would plummet. People always want what they can't have, and want what they think only they can obtain over others.

At the end of the day, it's extremely expensive leather (some might say overpriced, with justification) and yes, there is no excuse for rude service anywhere.
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This.

:goodpost: :ps:
 
#108
mafoofan said:
I'm the original poster from the thread over at Styleforum. I just wanted to clarify a few points.

Well, that's it for me. I just wanted to address a few things. Oh, and also: a breast wallet is a kind of wallet. You put it inside breast pocket of your jacket. There's really no better term for it. Surely, your boyfriends and husbands don't all just stuff things into the back pockets of their jeans.

I might as well laugh at "shoulder bag" or "tote" or "clutch."
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I always heard the long slender wallets refered to as a Secretary wallet. It's like French Purse or Continental - a name which refers to history rather than utility.
 
#113
mafoofan said:
Well, that's it for me. I just wanted to address a few things. Oh, and also: a breast wallet is a kind of wallet. You put it inside breast pocket of your jacket. There's really no better term for it. Surely, your boyfriends and husbands don't all just stuff things into the back pockets of their jeans.

I might as well laugh at "shoulder bag" or "tote" or "clutch."
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:laugh:
 
#115
This is an interesting thread ... there are a lot of sensible comments being exchanged here and it's good to see mafoofan's post.

My little niece just came over to my house, and I have asked her to identify the words relating to 'female' and 'male' in the below post... just for fun.

she's got --
words relating to female: 20
words relating to male: 5
(I added in the last 2 myself:smile1:)

niece: what is this article about? who wrote this?
me:Oh, this person adores ladies... he is not sexist.

I need to go for my manicure soon ... have a nice day everyone :hugs:


IcarusDppelgngr said:
Bristol is on here too? What a riot!


My rant, if you will, is not sexist. If you know the textbook definition of sexism, and also know the modus operandi of the big "luxury" companies, it is they who are sexist. Relaying this information to you does not make so. It's important to note that I have a mother, sisters, and perhaps one day will have a daughter; would I think of them in that way? I work with some extremely intelligent and innovative individuals who are women, so I have no negative opinion of the potential and realized intellect of women. I do not think of women who do not work badly either, as a women's biological calling in life is very different (and more consuming) than a man's.

The fact of the matter is, if you yourself are an accomplished woman, you dislike the type of women I mention (celebrities, and those born with money but no taste) more-so than I do.

However, the luxury companies know exactly who their customer is, and I have seen demographic reports and marketing strategies. Their "bread-and-butter" customers are the wives, girlfriends, and daughters of successful men.

When you keep in mind why the aspiring professional women want to buy Hermes, we are back to step one (of the Luxury Brand marketing juggernaut). Those professional women aspire to be like celebrities and wives of wealthy men.

This isn't some giant conspiracy here. Hermes became popular in the states (and therefore, the world) after actresses started to buy their products. These actresses were usually farm girls from the midwest who came to Hollywood in search of fame and fortune; the ultimate aspirational story.

Now, regarding the whole "He should have done his research first!!" attitude:

Guess who is Hermes' #2 customer group after Wives and daughters of the wealthy? The men who shop for them.

Is Hermes really not going to take their business because they do not posses the arbitrary and useless information that is Hermes' product line? Of course not. So, this is not a valid argument whatsoever.

You many call my previous post sexist and drivel, but I challenge anyone of you to refute any of the information I wrote about the "luxury brands". I'm sure people in the various industries mentioned read this site, and they are nodding their heads. It's just not "sexy" marketing to show an Arabic north African immigrant doing sewing work that anyone with a free arm industrial leather sewing machine can do.

edit: Also, my username on styleforum is Icarus, hence my name here. And S'mom, you need better heroes.
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#117
mistikat said:
Icarus, I would call the luxury brands capitalists before I would call them sexist. I also believe they understand very well that the best way to make people desire their products is by limiting access to them and creating a sense that only the privileged few can have them. I witnessed people lining up outside LV and Chanel in Paris recently, where potential buyers were limited to a single bag apiece. And saw Hermes telling prospective customers that they would be limited to a single Birkin and Kelly per year. It seems almost counterintuitive - at those prices, turning people away, in this economy?

And yet, I think in the case of Hermes in particular, if the bags really were seen on the arm of every actress and celeb and wannabe, their desirability would plummet. People always want what they can't have, and want what they think only they can obtain over others.

At the end of the day, it's extremely expensive leather (some might say overpriced, with justification) and yes, there is no excuse for rude service anywhere.
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It's basically like those detergent commercials talking about how your mother and grandmother did the washing using only the best. Sexist under/overtones, but essentially they just know exactly who they're marketing to.

You are right in that overexposure can create unwelcome results, but consider how many people in the world owns fakes. Does this drive the value down? There are theories by economists to support both yes and no answers.The most LV bags I've seen in one place was when I was driving by a bus stop in a blighted area, I kid you not.

Now, I do not have the same contacts at Hermes corporate, so while I cannot know what the policies are as of today there, I do know what they are at LVMH. LVMH is desperate for celebrities to wear their bags. Many celebrities do actually pay for most of their bags. However, if their staff (agent, publicist, etc) knows they right person at LVMH corporate, they can get any bag for free. They can also custom order almost anything, although they will not cover your car interior in LV monogram plastic-canvas. If you ever wondered why some actresses are crazy for a certain brand, look up who does their PR and you will find similarities. This is because LVMH usually cultivates relationships with publicists as opposed to the actors/actresses individually.

Now the pricing is where the economics of these things come into play. Hermes, and any brand for that matter, would rather sell one item for 1,000 than 10 for 100. This allows them to manage their labor pool and employer liabilities more efficiently.

Certain brands also never discount; LV for example. For their core styles, they have been able to calculate their market every season to an eerily exact science. For new collections, they are still very accurate. It hasn't always been like this, as when LV was curbing over-exposure in the 90s, 20' and 40' container-fulls of excess unsold bags would be thrown in a bonfire (I find it funny, but I'm sure one of you is weeping right now). Their system works very well now, and with about 3-5x more markets than before, that won't be repeated.

In the Horology business, the revered brands of today faced over exposure like Gucci and others (Pierre cardin, etc) did in the 80s. The problem was quartz (digital) watches from Japan, and the fact that they were more accurate on their worst day than a mechanical watch is on it's best. The japanese made 10x more watches for 10x less than the swiss. As of today, the Swiss are clear winners in the watch wars, but back in the 70s/80s it seemed they were doomed. All the brands started making quartz, many of their reputations never recovered. Today, Switzerland makes watches that are no where near as accurate as Japanese, but the selling point is no longer accuracy, but mechanical ingenuity. It's totally redundant technology, but aside from buying them as status symbols, their wearers appreciate the skill it takes to use "old" technology to make certain function in such a tiny space. See how complex a good mech. movt is:
SIHH+2010+-+A+LANGE+%26+SOHNE+-+1815+Chronograph+L951.jpg


So the Swiss charge whatever they want, and don't compete on price, but on perceived status. The only difference is there is nothing revolutionary about any handbag made. Granted, cheaper swiss watches that run 1k-5k often times use movements with chinese parts assembled in in Switzerland, and are no better than a $100 russian or japanese movement, and therefore are purely status symbols ("swiss made", and the "brand name") just as handbags are. The issue is that at the top of the business, a lot of innovation happens "Haute Horology", as opposed to handbags from the big brands (or any brands), where the fundamentals are all the same. The same cannot be said about genuine couture, this like complication watches are silly in a sense, but involve very complicated construction techniques that require a lot of innovation.

Here's a watch like one that I mention:
 
#118
<1. Clearly, none of you understand forum humor over there. I cannot believe you actually thought the person posting "did you tell them who you were" posted that with a straight face. But since you thought it was serious, I will add some fuel to the fire by playing devils advocate. There was a good chance Old foo actually was an important person, as you see, in the real world, men acquire the means to purchase expensive things by gaining power and money through business dealings, as opposed to marrying someone with it. So yes, they should have cared who he was or could have been. I guess they are more-so concerned with not offending some celebrity or wife-of-someone-important.>

Icarus, perhaps you're just much too arodite for this poor country girl. Now, tell me again how the highlighted statements aren't sexist?
 
#119
ouija board said:
Brussel sprouts, actually. Very good Brussel sprouts. And don't worry, no one here will call you sexist...no need to state the obvious...
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Well, I'll give it to you there, that is a creative way to call me a sexist ;)

I just wanted to see how many people will think I meant cake=woman, as opposed to cake=her username (makingbakedcakes or something along those lines)
 
#120
Fascinating.... Similar points could be made about several luxury jewellers, as well as watch makers.

I do think LV and Hermes cater to slightly different audiences with some overlap. The different approaches to manufacturing have certainly created a sense of rising unease among Hermes aficionados watching the creeping rise of LVMH ownership in Hermes. It will be interesting to see if Hermes can maintain the aura of craftsmanship and exclusivity they have cultivated if there is ever an Arnault shotgun wedding.
 
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