OMG! I got the dreaded letter!

[honuhonu]

OP - PLEASE don't apologize, and please don't leave!!! I had a shiznitty experience at an outlet last fall, where I was only THREATENED with a letter by a *****-tastic SA, and I felt the same way you do.

I agree that the OP should not be apologizing here. I was also warned about the letter last fall and let me tell you how emotionally damaging it can be. So, for those of you here that have not been in that situation, just try to remember that OP is feeling very threatened already, so she is more sensitive to comments made here that were not intended to be that way at all. I also felt like I had done something illegal that day and let me tell you, that is NOT a good feeling to have while shopping for a brand you love.

I agree with others that you just need to take some time and get over the initial shock and then move on. I am sorry you received the letter and especially the way that it happened right at the cash wrap. Please let us know how you are doing as it progresses.

 

[JamieA0321]

Wow, that is crazy! I can definitely say that if I ever got a letter like that when I was just buying personally and as gifts, I wouldn't shop the brand again, and that is pretty much all I buy, but I would definitely move on. I realize what they're trying to prevent with the letter, but that is ridiculous

 

[bluerose2]

If you're not supposed to buy in multiples, then whoever rang you up needed to tell you that, they needed to be responsible for curtailing that behavior when they see it. You cannot possibly adhere to rules you are unaware of. That's the bottom line. If anyone is at fault, it's the SA because she/he is intentionally breaking company policy. If anyone is going to be on the chopping block for this, it should be them--not you.



I so agree with this!!! I was at the FP yesterday. Just looking around... Two SA get on my back with have you seen our new line .... it is selling out ... I am not sure how many are left in Jax.... stuff. I didn't plna on buying anything... I didn't even have a pce with me, and I told her i won't buy anything... WEll, she offered me a discount and I walked out with a bag that I was not even sure I needed or loved that much, it is cute though...
I got home and was like what was i thinking... The bag is going back, I knew it was not my style when I was buying it... But both of them were , well, you know our policy, try it at home with your stuff, if you don't like it just bring it back... So I am going to bring it back. Somebody here said it is like a revolving door... So was it my fault for being easy to presuade?????

 

[baglady39]

My point was, all it takes is one. And, I don't really think we will every know what triggers a ban. It could be almost anything. If Coach was really trying to do away with resellers, the things that we all see going on in the outlets would not happen. The fact is, they may send a letter to one person and then let 5 more get away with the same behavior.

This is it in a nutshell!!



The thing is NO store or SA will be able to shed much, if any, light on the "real" specifics unless you go to the store that started it in the first place. I know because I know specifically of two people who have gotten banned...one letter of each type, and I also know my personal conversation with the store that dared to ask me if I'm a reseller. This is why I personally took it seriously when "ban letter" was mentioned to me.

The reason I say this is because that's EXACTLY what the horse's mouth told me. I was told the outlet I was at that they recently banned a couple of people because they didn't like them. YEP, you got it!! In one case, it wasn't just violation of their quota, but also because the mother/daughter team that came in were very rude to the SAs, complained, demanded this or that, so they turned the info in, and I guess bottom line is LP found something to act on that they felt they could to issue the letter. It doesn't even have to be behavior, and I know someone touched on this earlier about meeting a quota of turning in resellers...hey, maybe that's partially it too..the outlet wants to turn in SOMEONE! And OP, please don't read that I'm accusing you of ANYTHING here at all...I'm simply pointing out how INCONSISTENT and UNFAIR this company can be at times. They let many, many resellers slip through (this I know for fact), but they use the reasoning THEY want to use to axe someone. That is my only point here.

I was also specifically told that they (for a long time) have been trying to match the name with the Ebay name/store, and they will also be happy for you to give them names of resellers YOU know. Obviously being on here a long time, you kind of pick up on these things, and I would never ever do that...but my point here is somewhere along the way, the store decided they wanted to turn the people in for whatever reason. I'm not sure what LP can find, but anything...return without receipts, store concessions, whatever...I'm sure anything can be used against you if they want to get rid of you. I don't really know this, but it seems to be based on at least one situation I know about.

Actually, after the last person got a letter that I knew about, I expected to get one because I was totally honest...when asked if I was a reseller at that outlet, I said no, but when asked if I EVER sell Coach on Ebay, well...um...YES, I sell if I no longer want the item, plain and simple! I don't sell MUCH, but I certainly have in the past and would do so when/if the situation arose where I wanted to sell something. And I will continue to do so time and time again. If they don't like it, then I'm sorry!!! That's the way I left it with them, and I dare say that many, many people fall into my category...not resellers but of course if the time comes to part with a bag or something else, I'll gift or sell it. I've actually just given away quite a bit of stuff too.

As I said there are two types of letters at least that I know of. One is a total ban from purchasing, and that may or may not be lifted after a period of time. I don't know if that has to do with the stink the receiver makes or not...or how they determine the length of time, and the other type is a ban on returns...same deal on length of time (it varies), but usually that one as I understand it, is reevaluated over time....probably in 6 months or so. I don't know if it's the responsibility of the receiver to get it lifted, or they do it auto. That part was not clear from the specific stories. The scary thing to me is that I personally know the stories of two people that got one of each type of letter! The total ban case, that was a situation where a certain outlet (SAs and manager) initiated it, and in the other case with the ban on returns, that reason for the ban is not so obvious to me...but I wondered if it's because the person that got the ban letter had exchanged words with the store a few times. The point is somehow you get on their radar, but yet other people that IMO deserve something like this much, much more, get away with it and never get the letter! It's devastating enough to get it in the first place, but also terrible to know that so many true resellers (and we've all seen them in action!) get away with it, and some people that don't seem to deserve it are the ones that get hammered.

I guess it's this reason I just don't care anymore. If it happens, it happens. Like I said, their loss, as I sure do buy a lot of bags IMO (at BOTH boutiques and outlets), and I encourage others to buy...especially sometimes when I'm carrying the bag that someone sees and wants. IMO, this "letter" nonsense is just hurting the company overall, and as more and more people get the letter, it may hurt them more and more. There's already a negativity associated with Coach as a brand anyway. Anybody seen some of the comments every time Megs reviews a Coach bag?? Not that I care personally about negative comments about Coach, but just sayin'.... In addition to the negative opinion out there, there's a lot that this company does that totally turns people off...even down to PCEs.

Anyway, once again, OP, nothing I said was directed at you. I was simply sharing my own experience and the two cases I know specifically about with regard to getting these letters. In one case I still can't believe it happened, and that person did totally move on from Coach. Don't blame this person one bit, either!!

 

[baglady39]

Now I need to step in as a mod....

I know these types of warnings sometimes haven't worked out spectacularly in the recent past , but please let's remember to keep the personal drama off the board. I don't want to have to close this thread because I can at least somewhat appreciate what the OP is feeling because I felt similarly when someone I know got the letter, and I also believe it's a topic that is important to all of us to be able to discuss here. I'm very much a freedom of speech type of person, but we just cannot allow the drama or anything that is a personal attack since one of our major rules is to be kind to one another. I know this is a very difficult subject to discuss, and context can be read differently, so I just ask that everyone please think about what you're writing and reread before you post it. It's hard...I hope I also wrote nothing that came out in a way I didn't intend it, lol!

Thanks very much, guys!!

 

[lizmil]

^^ baglady 39,

re your post as a person not as a mod...

I agree totally & think you said a mouthful. I had that huge drama and humongous thread here when someone fussed at me about being a reseller, well not someone, an outlet manager.

I am not and never have been a reseller. I won't say I never considered selling a bag or two on e-bay. These would be of the nature of the "what was I thinking?" sale. I've got one or two of those sitting in my closet right now. I'm afraid to return them because of the stupid letter ~ I guess buying & hanging onto something then deciding you aren't going to use it & it should go back, tags you as a reseller. You held onto the bag , so you MUST have been trying to sell it. On the contrary if you don't return but DO resell it, when then I guess you ARE a reseller. I don't want to be a reseller so i don't sell on ebay even the lone item. Then you hear the ebay horror stories &, yikes!

I have told myself I need to return a few items as I have been on a bit of a buying kick lately. And one's taste evolves. Coach doesn't seem to realize this. Sometimes one really does just change one's mind. Or decide for financial reasons that if I want new bag B, older bag A has got to go. I gift some too. But you can only do that to a point.

IMO, if they really want to discourage serial or volume returns then they need to tighten up the return policy. During my fiasco, I was told by a Coach employee that Coach is very proud of the take it home-try it-return policy, without time limitation. That policy, again, IMO, is the main reason for the problem. If resellers knew they had "x" days to return, I don't think they would buy so much. Also, there are purchases I know I wouldn't have made for my own personal use, if I thought I'd have trouble returning. I do get swayed by the take it home try it, but not as much as I used to. Now if I'm not sure I tend to walk away & leave the item behind.

At the same time, like baglady39, I've decided if I get flagged & banned then I get flagged & banned. End of story.

Please keep us updated , OP, and know that we feel for you, are concerned, & wouldn't mind if you could talk some sense into the heads of the powers that be!

 

[Natalietwo]

baglady39

Thanks for your insight regarding personality issues. I was starting to think along these lines myself, but didn't know how to write it without the risk of insulting someone. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor in many of these ban letters,although I'm not saying that is the case for the OP. IF it is the case, OP, I think you can take some solice in knowing that it may have been personal, and then take Ms-Whitney's advice on how to handle customer service.

I would like to reiterate the frustration of the inconsistency at the outlets. Just yesterday I stopped in for a few things, but was afraid to buy all the items I liked for fear of being written up. So I only bought three small items. The store was a mad house at the time - couldn't walk anywhere without bumping into someone. And then there was the SA who was helping a customer with two large brown bags filled to the brim with MFF satchels. I see this frequently at this particular outlet. It makes me angry that I am terrified to return a paid of sneakers I bought for my daughter, even though I clearly stated at the time of purchase that I was buying two different sizes because she wasn't sure what her size was and she couldn't come along on the shopping trip. Now I'm asking myself how I could have been so stupid to buy two pairs in the first place. I'm thinking if I get through this return without getting banned that I will just stay away from Coach for a good long time and hope that things cool down.

Oh, and when I bought the sneakers at the FP store, the SA made it very clear that I could return anything, and I just wanted to scream! But I didn't! I just acted as thought it was the god given truth.

 

[sissabelle]

^

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. These threads always make everyone paranoid, but the fact of the matter is there's always more to the story. I'm not suggesting the OP is holding anything back & I hope this doesn't come off as accusatory because it isn't. I think as long as you buy/return with receipt & aren't buying quantities/multiples that would make you look like a reseller then you should be fine. The other thing seems to be not getting into arguments with SA's. This is what gets to me... that apparently people can be flagged by SA's or maybe more specifically managers, and sadly not always for the right reasons.

I never get those looks, but those 3 wks with my mom - that's when the looks started w/the store manager-- I told them, its for my mom & they see it was her shopping & I'm only buying that much bc she's picking it out. So I agree don't back to that store for awhile, hate for you to be the next in line.

And here I thought during those 3 wks with my mom's purchases I made enough impression that Coach values me enough now b/c I'm finally getting those stupid Coach coupons-- personally!! and that was another reason why I even bothered going in there today!

instead I got the letter!

Oh if it was the store manager who reported me, bc of this irregular spurge boy do I have stuff to tell them!

And this just doesn't make sense... why is she having to fill out paperwork? Has this ever happened to anyone else? The most I've had to do with a return is sign my name on the credit slip

Well basically when you return/exchange they'll ask you to fill in the personal information, so I usually start on that 'paperwork' and let my mom shop & if she picks something we'll exchange it out.

Anyway to the OP, I'm sorry that this happened to you. I hope you can get some answers & have the ban removed. Good luck

 

[baglady39]

^^Lizmil, what happened to you was AWFUL!!! I didn't appreciate what was said to me either. I almost feel like shouting to them that they either want to make a sale or not. You had it worse than I did, though!!

Natalietwo...I see you are in PA. I was at a PA outlet when this happened to me! I'm sorry you feel awkward about returning, but my honest opinion is that returning a few things here and there is no problem. I've done it for a few years now, and so has everyone I've known. But you're right in that SAs almost force you sometimes to "take it and try it". If it's encouraged to do so, then they have no complaints when people do it. If they don't like it, they need to first alter their policy and make it known to all customers. Then you take action against abusers. Their return policy is ridiculous IMO, so in a way, they deserve what they get. Anyway, I would not let this kind of fear keep you from returning your item, and by the way, MANY times I've bought two of one thing (not Coach necessarily) because I'm 5'1", and I don't always have time to try on, or I have to order and I have no clue! Shoes are hard because I can be anywhere from a 6 to 8, and I have a narrow heel. I have to say every time I've returned at the outlet, it was no problem. I've never done that without receipt. I've had more of an issue with the SAs at boutiques, simply because they don't like their store to take the hit. Again, not my problem, kwim?

I think part of the issue is that we are a different crowd here on the forum. By that I mean, obviously we have come together here because we love their products. We don't always fit into the normal "buy as you need it" type of person who might buy a handbag per season or per year. Some of us have pretty large collections...mine is in the hundreds(I admit, lol!), and most bags overall (%) I have to say are still in my closets and rooms (given the size of my collection). I don't think my behavior, or a lot our behaviors, are necessarily standard or considered "normal"...but I can say that our love should be obvious. I've seen exactly how the resellers act, and it's totally different. I don't advertise the forum while out at Coach stores because I've had some issues with SAs specifically, and I want to keep my privacy, but what I have done is show some pictures of my collection...I have a few where I have bags in groups much like in my album, and I think from talking to me they realize I just love bags. Surprising, maybe, but true!! But still, given their own policies, and the fact that I'm not abusing them (never bought over 3 of each items per trans, and most of the time just two, if that), then I don't feel I should have been questioned and also "lectured" by this person at the outlet. It doesn't make me feel WELCOME to shop at Coach, kwim?? And what Lizmil and some of the others went through was much worse.

It's pretty sad when you're worried about returning anything, though, and sometimes I do think we get scared for nothing. But just as soon as you think it's for nothing, then something bad happens that you can't rationalize. At the end of the day, I decided that I didn't care because there are other fish in the sea, and I'll certainly shop where I feel welcome to shop, and buy what I like. It doesn't have to be Coach. So maybe if you kind of step back and don't even think about when you have to return...just do it, you know? I know excessive is excessive, but I think everyone really knows what that is, so try not to let it bother you. I actually kept that one bag that had the blue spots on it (didn't notice it at the store) for longer than I normally would have till I "woke up" one day and decided I didn't care anymore.

Looking back, I probably should have complained about what happened to me, even though it wasn't as bad as some have gone through. I think it probably was a mistake I didn't just because I wasn't treated as a valued customer. A letter, though, is a whole other ballgame. Believe me, I have NO problem debating and telling them to shove it, lol!

 

[baglady39]

^

Honestly I wouldn't worry about it. These threads always make everyone paranoid, but the fact of the matter is there's always more to the story. I'm not suggesting the OP is holding anything back & I hope this doesn't come off as accusatory because it isn't. I think as long as you buy/return with receipt & aren't buying quantities/multiples that would make you look like a reseller then you should be fine. The other thing seems to be not getting into arguments with SA's. This is what gets to me... that apparently people can be flagged by SA's or maybe more specifically managers, and sadly not always for the right reasons.




And this just doesn't make sense... why is she having to fill out paperwork? Has this ever happened to anyone else? The most I've had to do with a return is sign my name on the credit slip




Anyway to the OP, I'm sorry that this happened to you. I hope you can get some answers & have the ban removed. Good luck

First of all, let me say that we all know that outlets are inconsistent. I have never been asked to do anything other than sign a receipt, and I've actually never been asked for my DL. However, my husband has because his signature got hard to read on the back of the card. I think usually, unless you return without receipt, the outlets I shop at don't do that. I have seen one case at one outlet where I observed someone in line filling out info, but I took that to mean that the SA was not able to understand the customer due to a language barrier...it was at the cashwrap, but possibly wasn't related to the specific trans...hard to know. In another case, someone wanted to buy gifts, and they had a few MFFs and wristlets, and they were asked for their DL and had to fill out paperwork in order to be able to purchase the items...not excessive IMO, but I guess with the bags they hit over 3 with the different colors (it's the style number, not the color, that matters...so even 3 bags of a diff color count). In that case, they had the info in case they returned to buy more. The manager specifically said it was to track resellers, and they wanted to make sure the woman wasn't...so by signing the slip, the woman was swearing she wasn't a reseller.

Still, though, I don't know if we can look at any of this as common fact. There's just too much inconsistency with the company in general...even the prices can be diff from outlet to outlet. Sometimes it's a difference in east coast/west coast. I wish that the entire company was on the same page and make it clear to all customers!

 

[melissatrv]

Me too! I have a bit of a buying problem and often buy on impulse or a "deal" I just cannot resist at the outlet. I just bought a bag that I know I want to return but am thinking....hmmmm, have I returned too many bags, will I get "the letter"??!! I only buy one bag at a time and usually buy a bag same day to replace anything I return but still....this black cloud hangs over me and I am afraid to bring it back. So do I return it at perhaps another outlet? Should I return it to the FP boutique where I almost never return bags I buy. Do I sell on ebay because I am afraid to return and then am I <gasp> a reseller? I agree with whoever posted that the problem needs to be dealt with via a clear store policy. "Returns within 90 days" only type of thing or "only allowed to purchase no more than 2 of each item" etc. If this were the case, "the letter" if needed would probably only go out to true resellers. And I have to say it is pretty scary that the outlets have the power to flag you simply because they don't like you when there seems to be no set guidelines about who gets the letter and who doesnt

I am not and never have been a reseller. I won't say I never considered selling a bag or two on e-bay. These would be of the nature of the "what was I thinking?" sale. I've got one or two of those sitting in my closet right now. I'm afraid to return them because of the stupid letter ~ I guess buying & hanging onto something then deciding you aren't going to use it & it should go back, tags you as a reseller. You held onto the bag , so you MUST have been trying to sell it. On the contrary if you don't return but DO resell it, when then I guess you ARE a reseller.

 

[baglady39]

^^You know, at the end of the day, we're not "renting" the items...so IMO Coach has no control over that. I won't personally return something that is super old, so in those cases, I do sell. I may also sell if I decide I don't want it, my gift recipient doesn't want it, or DH has lost the receipt . It used to be too difficult to easily get back the outlet since it was a min. one hour each way for me, so that's one reason...until they built one that is now only a half hour. So now I would just return if it's convenient. I also won't return outlet stuff to a boutique...that's my own personal thing. I won't return anymore without receipt unless it's a gift (which usually doesn't happen since I get gift cards, not merch), and actually I've never really done that in general but just a couple of times I can think of. Anyway, to me, what I buy is what I buy...and still with regard to people that intentionally buy to sell....they have let these people walk out with the items. IMO the time to place limitations on purchases is at the cash register. I'm sure this may block legit people too. Sometimes I do major hauls that are all for ME, and I'm sure I will be penalized by the new rules if the outlets enforce them. Honestly, though, so far I haven't seen anyone say anything locally about that. Don't know...guess I'll find out eventually because I've been known to buy a lot of stuff. I try to visit the outlets periodically and grab those items on my "outlet list", which are bags I want but never wanted to pay fp or PCE for.

 

[baglady39]

The other thing too, and I can say this because I have spoken to someone that's CLOSE to getting the letter IMO... They do look at returns just because the resellers are known to buy a ton, list it, and then return what won't sell. This is my own theory, but I guess if you get the item and then return it immediately, it looks less like you may have listed it first and then returned it..so maybe less like a reseller (don't know). The other thing too is sometimes I'm convinced they are just WRONG...let's say you purchase 5 bags, and then right away, those 5 bags appear on Ebay from your same area. It may LOOK LIKE you're the reseller that's selling those bags, but in fact, it's someone else. I used to belong to another forum that discussed this kind of thing at length because some of them were pretty upset by the whole thing, and I guess some of them keep a large stock and put the items up on Ebay after a while so that it looks less like it's a reseller issue. If that wasn't the case, then I can say there are at least several resellers on Ebay that should have gotten the letter by now! Also, if you go to some websites, there are lists of "trusted resellers". All it takes is someone on VERO to cross reference that with the Coach customer. Anyway, I kind of left the other forum because I felt some pressure to boycott buying Coach, and I wasn't personally in that place at the time. I don't go out to buy to resell, but like everyone else, when I have to clean out, there's a good chance stuff gets listed, sold individually or gifted to friends/family. It's unrealistic to think that every consumer is going to hold on to items they purchase forever...or for the life of the item. I'm a quasi collector, but also my tastes change over time. I used to collect other brands, and some of them I have liquidated to bring more Coach into my collection because that's where my interests are at the moment. It's really no diff. than my BIL's diecast collecting and sales...and not for Coach to decide for me.

 

[bunnymasseuse]

^Some of what BL says is true.

I think the following happened here, and this is only my interpretation:
- OP got flagged on a transaction 1-2 days prior to the letter date
- OP got flagged EITHER or BOTH on cost of return/or buying, or from return/buying due to $ , or quantity
- OP got flagged by their LP type department, NOT the outlet/FP store
- OP was flagged on a system designed to track $ and # and look for trends

 

[ms-whitney]

there are sooooooo many transactions that go through outlets stores on a daily basis,
if the system was a random pick that might explain why some get it and some don't..but companies usually rely on workers to look out and it's never based SOLELY on word..there needs to be transactional proof