JOSH BROLIN: Where are you right now?
MICHAEL FASSBENDER: Im in London, man. Im here for a while, but Im gonna be in L.A. on the weekend actually.
BROLIN: I heard. Youll be with your buddy Steve McQueen?
FASSBENDER: With Steve McQueen and Steven Soderbergh and David Cronenberg.
BROLIN: And whatever other director you choose to hang out with at the moment . . . Its good to hear your voice. You do realize that you and I have probably never spoken on the phone.
FASSBENDER: I know. Its kind of surreal.
BROLIN: Do you still not have a cell phone?
FASSBENDER: I mean, I do have one, yeah . . .
BROLIN: [laughs] Somewhere.
FASSBENDER: I just went off for two months traveling around Europe on a motorcycle and pretty much turned my phone off. I did 5,000 miles with my dad. We went through Holland, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Italy . . . and then I did Spain and France by myself. It was a tripyou would have loved it. Do you remember when we were doing Jonah Hex and I was telling you that I wanted to do a trip on a bike? It was something I was planning for ages. I talked to my dad about it 10 years ago, before I even had a license or a motorcycle, and then, when I was finishing up Prometheus, I was like, ****, I need to take a break now. So I said to my dad, This could happen, so be ready to move.
BROLIN: What kind of motorcycles did you guys use?
FASSBENDER: My dad had the Triumph Tiger. My Speed Triple got nicked last year, so I bought a new BMW, the R 1200 GS Adventure.
BROLIN: I would love to do something like thatjust be able to turn off the phone. Actually, thats a good segue into the fact that youve been working like nuts and with all of these different directors. Youve done two movies now with Steve McQueen, and youre gonna do a third, 12 Years a Slave. I met Steve when I met you for the first time. In Toronto, right?
FASSBENDER: Thats right. In Toronto in 2008.
BROLIN: We ended up having a blast in a hotel roomlaughing, having drinks, whatever. It was you, me, Sean Penn, Steve McQueen, and a few other people, and I remember Steve giving a speech about how he was so grateful to have this film, Hunger, under his belt. Nobody really knew about it at that point except the few who had seen it. But when he gave that little speech, I remember thinking, What a sweet guy. I cant wait to see this movie. Then I saw the movie and I go, This is really severe. This does not parallel with the guy I just hung out with at all.
FASSBENDER: Thats the thing with Steve. Hes kind of like a little boy and an old man at the same time. Hes sort of masculine, and yet hes also got a very feminine quality. The first thing that struck me when I met him was that he doesnt pull any punches. Theres no room for bull**** with him. To give an example, on Shame we were doing a scene that was pretty full-on, and he came onto the scene, and I was like, Yeah, thats pretty good for a first take. You know, not bad. Then he said, Lets have a chat. So we went into a separate room, and he was like, Some actor geezer just came into the room here. That wasnt Michael Fassbender. I know what youre doing, but youve got to find something different. [both laugh] I was like, Oh, ****. So I went back to the drawing board and tried to pare things down and just make them honest. Its such a clichéd thing to say, but its true. His philosophy is to just go for itgo to a place and see what comes of it, because were all gonna die one day, so what have you got to lose? If you fall flat on your face, then you fall flat on your face. It makes for a scary environment, but a very exciting one as well . . . And then I see the grip, whos been in the business for, you know, 35 years, and hes like, Show him that youre brilliant. Dont let Steve down. [Brolin laughs] So that feeling he creates is not just between the actors and director but literally throughout the entire crew making the film. You know, if you can keep the crew guessing and interested in what youre doing, then chances are . . .
BROLIN: That its gonna resonate on a bigger level. So, just to give you some context, I saw Shame with my wife [Diane Lane] at 10 oclock in the morning in a Fox screening room, and we were by ourselves, so thats how I took in the film. [Fassbender laughs] By the way, Diane wanted me to tell you that she thinks youre phenomenal in this film. I also think Carey [Mulligan], who I know from Wall Street [Money Never Sleeps] [2010], is probably the best actress of her generation right now, and watching you guys do what you do is incredible. But there is an image near the end of the movie that is the perfect hybrid of abject horror and ecstasy, where you, as the audience, are looking at your character and the hamster wheel that hes on in this vortex that he cant get out of, where he realizes that this is his life and its just going to get worse . . . Im watching him do this thing and Im thinking, Is he really ecstatic? Or is he realizing that his life will never be normal?
FASSBENDER: I think youre talking about one of the sex scenes. Whats great about all of those sex scenes is that, in terms of a character journey, you can see how far down the rabbit hole this guy is going. That particular scene really embodied his desperation mixed, as you say, with the need for a hit. Hes a prisoner, you know? Its kind of funny that this is sort of a continuation of Hunger in a lot of respects. In Hunger, my character, Bobby, is in prison, and throughout the film, hes just trying to assemble some form of freedom. And then you have Brandon in Shame, who is sort of using his body to imprison himselfhes imprisoned by his own physical urges and impulses. I dont really know what to think of it . . . How do you relate sexual addiction to the other addictions that seem to be more recognized and discussed? Youre dealing with a topic that you want to give as much respect and contemplation to as you can.
BROLIN: But it resonated so completely. In this film, you do some horrific things, but we cant sit there and judge you completely. We all have these voids we try to fill in different ways. I found myself going, Oh, my god, I understand that. I dont understand it based on the sex or the porn, but I understand it on another level. When I left the screening room, I didnt feel disgusted and angry. I just felt that this character was stuck in this vortex he couldnt get out of, and when you watch this movie, youre in that vortex. Afterward, I felt like I wanted to just do something good. I wanted to go hug my kids. I wanted to go kiss my wife.
FASSBENDER: I think youve touched on something interesting. All of these characters are trying to connect to one another in some way or other. Were all trying to connect to each other and find some levels of intimacy. Theres so much going on in the world. Theres so much information being thrown at usso many things are being sold to us, and were being told how we should appear and how to be more successful, blah, blah, blah. How does that manifest itself? In the pressures, the stress, this need to escape. I like Brandon because hes trying. You mentioned this idea of disgustthat was something I knew I wanted to represent in him in the sex scenes, making them a repulsive sort of thing to look at. But I was also hoping and banking on the fact that hes trying. Theres his date with the character Marianne: They go for the walk where hes clumsy, but he tries to open himself up, and we see this childlike personality start to emerge. So I was just hoping the audience would understand that hes struggling with this addiction. Its not like hes going, To hell with it, and damn the consequences. Hes living the consequences.
MICHAEL FASSBENDER: Im in London, man. Im here for a while, but Im gonna be in L.A. on the weekend actually.
BROLIN: I heard. Youll be with your buddy Steve McQueen?
FASSBENDER: With Steve McQueen and Steven Soderbergh and David Cronenberg.
BROLIN: And whatever other director you choose to hang out with at the moment . . . Its good to hear your voice. You do realize that you and I have probably never spoken on the phone.
FASSBENDER: I know. Its kind of surreal.
BROLIN: Do you still not have a cell phone?
FASSBENDER: I mean, I do have one, yeah . . .
BROLIN: [laughs] Somewhere.
FASSBENDER: I just went off for two months traveling around Europe on a motorcycle and pretty much turned my phone off. I did 5,000 miles with my dad. We went through Holland, Germany, Austria, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia, Montenegro, Italy . . . and then I did Spain and France by myself. It was a tripyou would have loved it. Do you remember when we were doing Jonah Hex and I was telling you that I wanted to do a trip on a bike? It was something I was planning for ages. I talked to my dad about it 10 years ago, before I even had a license or a motorcycle, and then, when I was finishing up Prometheus, I was like, ****, I need to take a break now. So I said to my dad, This could happen, so be ready to move.
BROLIN: What kind of motorcycles did you guys use?
FASSBENDER: My dad had the Triumph Tiger. My Speed Triple got nicked last year, so I bought a new BMW, the R 1200 GS Adventure.
BROLIN: I would love to do something like thatjust be able to turn off the phone. Actually, thats a good segue into the fact that youve been working like nuts and with all of these different directors. Youve done two movies now with Steve McQueen, and youre gonna do a third, 12 Years a Slave. I met Steve when I met you for the first time. In Toronto, right?
FASSBENDER: Thats right. In Toronto in 2008.
BROLIN: We ended up having a blast in a hotel roomlaughing, having drinks, whatever. It was you, me, Sean Penn, Steve McQueen, and a few other people, and I remember Steve giving a speech about how he was so grateful to have this film, Hunger, under his belt. Nobody really knew about it at that point except the few who had seen it. But when he gave that little speech, I remember thinking, What a sweet guy. I cant wait to see this movie. Then I saw the movie and I go, This is really severe. This does not parallel with the guy I just hung out with at all.
FASSBENDER: Thats the thing with Steve. Hes kind of like a little boy and an old man at the same time. Hes sort of masculine, and yet hes also got a very feminine quality. The first thing that struck me when I met him was that he doesnt pull any punches. Theres no room for bull**** with him. To give an example, on Shame we were doing a scene that was pretty full-on, and he came onto the scene, and I was like, Yeah, thats pretty good for a first take. You know, not bad. Then he said, Lets have a chat. So we went into a separate room, and he was like, Some actor geezer just came into the room here. That wasnt Michael Fassbender. I know what youre doing, but youve got to find something different. [both laugh] I was like, Oh, ****. So I went back to the drawing board and tried to pare things down and just make them honest. Its such a clichéd thing to say, but its true. His philosophy is to just go for itgo to a place and see what comes of it, because were all gonna die one day, so what have you got to lose? If you fall flat on your face, then you fall flat on your face. It makes for a scary environment, but a very exciting one as well . . . And then I see the grip, whos been in the business for, you know, 35 years, and hes like, Show him that youre brilliant. Dont let Steve down. [Brolin laughs] So that feeling he creates is not just between the actors and director but literally throughout the entire crew making the film. You know, if you can keep the crew guessing and interested in what youre doing, then chances are . . .
BROLIN: That its gonna resonate on a bigger level. So, just to give you some context, I saw Shame with my wife [Diane Lane] at 10 oclock in the morning in a Fox screening room, and we were by ourselves, so thats how I took in the film. [Fassbender laughs] By the way, Diane wanted me to tell you that she thinks youre phenomenal in this film. I also think Carey [Mulligan], who I know from Wall Street [Money Never Sleeps] [2010], is probably the best actress of her generation right now, and watching you guys do what you do is incredible. But there is an image near the end of the movie that is the perfect hybrid of abject horror and ecstasy, where you, as the audience, are looking at your character and the hamster wheel that hes on in this vortex that he cant get out of, where he realizes that this is his life and its just going to get worse . . . Im watching him do this thing and Im thinking, Is he really ecstatic? Or is he realizing that his life will never be normal?
FASSBENDER: I think youre talking about one of the sex scenes. Whats great about all of those sex scenes is that, in terms of a character journey, you can see how far down the rabbit hole this guy is going. That particular scene really embodied his desperation mixed, as you say, with the need for a hit. Hes a prisoner, you know? Its kind of funny that this is sort of a continuation of Hunger in a lot of respects. In Hunger, my character, Bobby, is in prison, and throughout the film, hes just trying to assemble some form of freedom. And then you have Brandon in Shame, who is sort of using his body to imprison himselfhes imprisoned by his own physical urges and impulses. I dont really know what to think of it . . . How do you relate sexual addiction to the other addictions that seem to be more recognized and discussed? Youre dealing with a topic that you want to give as much respect and contemplation to as you can.
BROLIN: But it resonated so completely. In this film, you do some horrific things, but we cant sit there and judge you completely. We all have these voids we try to fill in different ways. I found myself going, Oh, my god, I understand that. I dont understand it based on the sex or the porn, but I understand it on another level. When I left the screening room, I didnt feel disgusted and angry. I just felt that this character was stuck in this vortex he couldnt get out of, and when you watch this movie, youre in that vortex. Afterward, I felt like I wanted to just do something good. I wanted to go hug my kids. I wanted to go kiss my wife.
FASSBENDER: I think youve touched on something interesting. All of these characters are trying to connect to one another in some way or other. Were all trying to connect to each other and find some levels of intimacy. Theres so much going on in the world. Theres so much information being thrown at usso many things are being sold to us, and were being told how we should appear and how to be more successful, blah, blah, blah. How does that manifest itself? In the pressures, the stress, this need to escape. I like Brandon because hes trying. You mentioned this idea of disgustthat was something I knew I wanted to represent in him in the sex scenes, making them a repulsive sort of thing to look at. But I was also hoping and banking on the fact that hes trying. Theres his date with the character Marianne: They go for the walk where hes clumsy, but he tries to open himself up, and we see this childlike personality start to emerge. So I was just hoping the audience would understand that hes struggling with this addiction. Its not like hes going, To hell with it, and damn the consequences. Hes living the consequences.