Joseph Duclos Thread

[crocodilemonkey]

yes but I think they're just being lyrical because when we take the literal meaning of gilding, it means applying a very thin foil over something and using an adhesive such as glue to make it stick, which is not really done to metals or other things where there is rubbing/friction involved. it is done, though, to other materials such as wood or paper for picture frames, or ceiling of a room, etc.

gold plating using an electrolyte solution is the way to cover metals with gold.

in another part of the website we can see this:
View attachment 5969602

so I'm really curious where the other poster got the information that it's "gilded and not gold-plated (by electrolysis)" and that JD bags are "50% hardware" whatever that means.

I was just about to post (in almost an echo of @allanrvj ’s post) : the technique for hardware is galvanisation of gold or palladium finish on a base of brass. Very rarely do companies use steel for bag hardware, its almost always brass.
I have to admit though - I hit the limit of my knowledge when we come to «50% hardware»

 

[FatFIRE]

TBH: plating/gilding - very little difference:

Gilding is applying a thin veneer of a metal (usually gold) over a 'lesser' metal, usually by “rubbing” (as in gold leaf). Gold plating is an electrostatic process where gold is attached to a “lesser” metal using electric current to make the object and the 'gold bath' into an anode and cathode, as it were

If you really want to "geek-out"

gilding

Gilding is an ancient traditional technique, which can be done on wood, metal, glass, ceramic, stone or marble, to cover an object with gold. By extension, we use « gilding » when it is an application of copper or any other metal imitating gold.Known since Antiquity, especially in Ancient Egypt...

www.marcmaison.com

The difference is anything but "little". These things are orders of magnitude apart.
Gild is very thin, to give you an impression of how thin: a gilding leaf is basically the same as edible gold leaves (ca 0.12nm).
French law requires objects which are labeled as "gold-plated" to be covered in gold of at least 3nm thickness (meaning thicker than around 25 edible gold leaves stacked together).
And of course it´s not just the price and the amount of gold (or other metals) used. The "patina" (aka wear, tear and oxidation) is obviously A LOT quicker in thinly covered gilded objects.

 

[Loganz]

The difference is anything but "little". These things are orders of magnitude apart.
Gild is very thin, to give you an impression of how thin: a gilding leaf is basically the same as edible gold leaves (ca 0.12nm).
French law requires objects which are labeled as "gold-plated" to be covered in gold of at least 3nm thickness (meaning thicker than around 25 edible gold leaves stacked together).
And of course it´s not just the price and the amount of gold (or other metals) used. The "patina" (aka wear, tear and oxidation) is obviously A LOT quicker in thinly covered gilded objects.

I don't Internet-argue. I actually know quite a lot about gold gilding, water gilding, yadda yadda...because I collect 19th c art and older antiquities.
You are so intent on besmirching JD - earlier attempts with another poster to find common ground did not "take" as here you are again assuming we are all "sheep" and watching youtube, following influencers, or some other insinuation on why we are choosing to like the designs and believe in the quality of the brand.

Did you read my prior post about my defective Birkin? Have you ever examined the sangles of a gently used Birkin? Doesn't it bother you that H is so knocked off? That fakes are being sold alongside auth on TRR and other sites?

I am glad to spend my disposable income on a brand that is NOT being knocked off on DH Gate or being carried by every BH tween.

 

[FatFIRE]

It´s anything but lyrical. The French version of JD website calls is "doré" (gilded) and not "plaqué Or" (gold plated).
Whereas Hermes hardware is "plaqué Or". Quite obvious JD HW is so thinly coated it´s not up to French and EU standards to be marketed as gold-plated. EU laws and zero lyrics.

 

[FatFIRE]

I think the price is equative to the quality you get, and think the quality is objectively superior to quite a lot of brands. I also did my research for the things I care about, so I feel educated about my decision, so far as the topics that I personally care about. There are plenty of reasons why I went with JD for my purchase a few months ago and not other brands.

That doesn't mean that I don't think you are sincere in your beliefs and feelings about the brand, either. Your thoughts and feelings are valid! If there are things that don't speak to you or displease you, then I can certainly understand why you'd not be interested in getting a JD bag at this time.

But I'd like to think we're all interested in seeing where this brand can go, and how it will develop over time, yes? I appreciate the design and sophistication element of the bags - and Ramesh's work tends to speak to me on a general level. I personally hope they keep the Diane clasp as a running signature as they grow and expand their offerings.

You dismiss it as opinions, feelings and beliefs, while things like gilded hardware, machine stitching, lots of defects for a tiny scale production, employing directly post-apprenticeships and not requiring years of targeted inhouse training + many years of inhouse artisan experience to be allowed to work on advanced level bags like H does, these are all objective indicators of an inferior quality system. These "revelations" come directly from Joseph Duclos. Bag defects are reported by seduced JD fans and customers, not haters.

It´s the other way around, there is nothing more opinion-ish and post-truth than dismissing factual information the brand is admitting themselves as "opinion".

 

[allanrvj]

You dismiss it as opinions, feelings and beliefs, while things like gilded hardware, machine stitching, lots of defects for a tiny scale production, employing directly post-apprenticeships and not requiring years of targeted inhouse training + many years of inhouse artisan experience to be allowed to work on advanced level bags like H does, these are all objective indicators of an inferior quality system. These "revelations" come directly from Joseph Duclos. Bag defects are reported by seduced JD fans and customers, not haters.

It´s the other way around, there is nothing more opinion-ish and post-truth than dismissing factual information the brand is admitting themselves as "opinion".

we are still not getting where the "50% hardware" comes from

 

[Christofle]

Was there bad blood between LVMH and Ramesh or something? The weird vibe of this thread seems to be quite unique to this specific brand and not found elsewhere. 🤔

 

[FatFIRE]

we are still not getting where the "50% hardware" comes from

If this interests you, maybe you can research the actual weight of the metal parts and leather in Diane and compare them.
"Basically 50%" means rough approximation without any intention to be accurate.

Do you still believe JD is being lyrical about their gilded jewelries though?

 

[bagnut1]

Was there bad blood between LVMH and Ramesh or something? The weird vibe of this thread seems to be quite unique to this specific brand and not found elsewhere. 🤔

I believe his Moynat contract was allowed to expire (at 10 years) amid a significant change in strategy and executive leadership. Originally he and the Moynat top executive reported to Arnault under the Arnault non-LVMH corporate entity. Now Moynat is under LVMH and there are a bunch of suits layered in there, and they still don't have a CD after Knightly was fired.

My impression at the time based on Ramesh's limited statements is that he had been pressured to reduce quality and change design direction. Now he's living his best life without all of the suit interference.

@Mousy knows more I think (and has a better memory!).

Also I may be missing the full context of your "weird vibe" observation because I ignore the consistently negative user.

 

[bmshqklutxv]

You dismiss it as opinions, feelings and beliefs, while things like gilded hardware, machine stitching, lots of defects for a tiny scale production, employing directly post-apprenticeships and not requiring years of targeted inhouse training + many years of inhouse artisan experience to be allowed to work on advanced level bags like H does, these are all objective indicators of an inferior quality system. These "revelations" come directly from Joseph Duclos. Bag defects are reported by seduced JD fans and customers, not haters.

It´s the other way around, there is nothing more opinion-ish and post-truth than dismissing factual information the brand is admitting themselves as "opinion".

While it's true that JD utilizes gilded hardware, it is not inherently indicative of inferior quality. Many reputable brands employ various finishes on their hardware, each with its own unique characteristics and aesthetic appeal. The patina that may develop over time could be celebrated as part of the bag's journey, adding character and charm. But I, too, have voiced my curiosity over the longevity of the hardware. I think it's something that we will just have to wait to see. However, given that things like gilded brass buttons and various gilded brass antiques are out there that are over 100 years old and still looking fabulous, I'm really not too worried about it.

Contrary to popular belief, Hermes, revered as it is, also employs machine stitching in its manufacturing process - even in their Birkins and kelly's. It is not the method of stitching alone that determines quality, but rather the precision and craftsmanship applied.

"Lots of defects" is no fact, unless you have numbers showing that x% of all their bags have defects, or you have bought many JD bags of your own and have found all of them with terrible issues? A defect here or there will happen at any brand, even established ones. As for your concerns about apprenticeships and in-house training, it's worth noting that JD's approach may differ from Hermes', yet it does not diminish the skill and dedication of its artisans. Quality craftsmanship is not solely determined by the length of one's tenure but by the passion and expertise invested in each creation.

What initially drew me into the brand was the design and the leather. Knowing that they source leather from the Haas Tanneries and Tannery Gal was a big plus for me. I wanted semi-veg and veg leathers. I can customize the bag with different high quality leathers. I like the overall design. I like how it's constructed. The CS is wonderful.

Let's not hastily dismiss JD based on preconceived notions. Let us instead embrace the journey of this emerging brand, acknowledging its potential for growth and evolution.

 

[bmshqklutxv]

*sigh*, I love the Kaki! I think this is my favorite of the new colors. If anyone gets this one, please post!

 

[allanrvj]

If this interests you, maybe you can research the actual weight of the metal parts and leather in Diane and compare them.
"Basically 50%" means rough approximation without any intention to be accurate.

Do you still believe JD is being lyrical about their gilded jewelries though?

I don’t, since you showed your proof and I accept. It’s brass.

However, you’re the one who brought up the “50% hardware” and now you’re tiptoeing around the subject, asking me to do my research, when I asked you for your source.

At this point I think you’re just inventing stuff just to fuel more negativity around JD, which you have single-handedly been doing since October (?). I don't know what your motivations are but I hope you’re getting paid for it. It seems tough to just go to this website and yuck the yum of a bunch of strangers on the internet.

Anyway, to get back to topic... Guys! They updated the website with new products and this is such a pretty new color! It reminds me of the L20 Lizard @thebaghag has but a more affordable version



If JD releases a light blue version of the L20 (kind of like a bleu frida), I may have to rethink my bag plans

 

[trunkdevil]

Bleu de Cocagne in the evening light

 

[Loganz]

Bleu de Cocagne in the evening light
View attachment 5970160

Gorgeous!! I love this color in natural light!

This is a L20?

 

[trunkdevil]

Gorgeous!! I love this color in natural light!

This is a L20?

Yes L20!