99% of fakes are easily identifiable. As for the 1%, I trust that in doubt an agent will not pursue it. Also, their focus is on people who try to sneak in large amount of counterfeit products. They don’t really care about one lady and her one purse. Although they do control individuals. If your fake is obvious, you are definitely at risk.
I'm in need of advice..my authenticated K28 is deemed fake by Paris HQ
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It is not just France that destroys fakes. Other European countries do, too. And rightly so.
All the best to OP. I keep my fingers crossed that Hermès will do right by you.
All the best to OP. I keep my fingers crossed that Hermès will do right by you.
I think you are raising a good question here.
When buying from the resell market, at what point, and in which form, shall a buyer be satisfied with the warrant of authenticity?
For the seller, to what extend, or under what condition, should they warrant the return/refund?
Personally as a buyer I was happy to make the purchase upon receiving the authentication certificate from bababebi. In my situation I had no prior knowledge of possible inconsistencies between Hermès’ judgement and authenticator’s opinion regarding a bag’s authenticity. I also would’ve never thought that Hermès could make mistakes on their own creations.
As my opinion on the authenticators, the recommended few in the industry have my full respect for their deep knowledge, vast amount of experience, and the unimaginable amount of effort they put in doing their job. If any I’d rather take the authenticator’s words as a final say other than an artisan’s whose past work and track record are both unknown to me.
From the hindsight yes one could frame up different scenarios and put different party under question. However from the foresight I believed my due diligence satisfied the condition to buy. When inconsistency showed up I wouldn’t blame the seller for a transaction that was deemed legitimate at the time of my purchase.
I don’t understand this? Why would the seller offer that knowing well that if the bag is not accepted by Hermes spa it would be destroyed?
Good luck and thumps up to you for dealing with this so soberly
Ah, I see you answered my question already!
The thing is, this is not about trust or bad faith but about liability (sorry I am a lawyer
). Our trust level is, should be, dependent on expertise. But the fact is, at ANY level of expertise mistakes are possible.
Take Christie’s, which is the golden standard. They need to use authenticators and they use the best (as indeed Bababebi) to protect their reputation. Yet they have made mistakes including some famous blunders. Authetication is a very muddly thing. That’s why authenticators in practice what they usually give is an informed opinion, and have no liability. It is the seller, like Christie’s, bearing liability if the item is deemed fake. With fine art it is difficult to determine who’s the authority for this if the artist is no longer alive or their state active, and there are some fascinating lawsuits out there. With Hermes, it is simple, as the still active manufacturer company they “own” the intelectual property of their products. If Hermes won’t accept a bag to all effects the bag is a fake and the seller is liable. Who has made a mistake is, from this perspective, beyond the point because at the end of the day anyone can make a mistake and you and me, as lay people, cannot have certainty one way or the other. Ultimately, when you buy a Hermes bag you buy the privilege of a bag that will be served by Hermes forever, and that is a part of its value. So I think you should not have any problem to recover your money if worst comes to worst, which I sincerely hope it doesn’t.
The thing is, this is not about trust or bad faith but about liability (sorry I am a lawyer
). Our trust level is, should be, dependent on expertise. But the fact is, at ANY level of expertise mistakes are possible.Take Christie’s, which is the golden standard. They need to use authenticators and they use the best (as indeed Bababebi) to protect their reputation. Yet they have made mistakes including some famous blunders. Authetication is a very muddly thing. That’s why authenticators in practice what they usually give is an informed opinion, and have no liability. It is the seller, like Christie’s, bearing liability if the item is deemed fake. With fine art it is difficult to determine who’s the authority for this if the artist is no longer alive or their state active, and there are some fascinating lawsuits out there. With Hermes, it is simple, as the still active manufacturer company they “own” the intelectual property of their products. If Hermes won’t accept a bag to all effects the bag is a fake and the seller is liable. Who has made a mistake is, from this perspective, beyond the point because at the end of the day anyone can make a mistake and you and me, as lay people, cannot have certainty one way or the other. Ultimately, when you buy a Hermes bag you buy the privilege of a bag that will be served by Hermes forever, and that is a part of its value. So I think you should not have any problem to recover your money if worst comes to worst, which I sincerely hope it doesn’t.
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OP could you please clarify.
Did you commission the authentication from bababebi
or did you rely on an authentication from bababebi that the seller provided?
thanks
Did you commission the authentication from bababebi
or did you rely on an authentication from bababebi that the seller provided?
thanks
Thank you; that is what I had assumed.
I did have a very cynical thought that the seller might possibly have used an earlier authentication for a genuine bag and switched the bag sent to you with a super-fake.
That now seems highly unlikely as you obviously had no concerns and the bag matched up with the photos you saw.
I did have a very cynical thought that the seller might possibly have used an earlier authentication for a genuine bag and switched the bag sent to you with a super-fake.
That now seems highly unlikely as you obviously had no concerns and the bag matched up with the photos you saw.
You did everything possible and you have handled this so gracefully. I am really hoping for a happy outcome for you. [emoji177]
Most reputable resellers state a money back warranty/guarantee on authenticity. So my thoughts are that such warranties or guarantees do not expire until fullfilled. That is at the time, in this case, Hermes claims that this is not authentic, so the seller is liable to compensate you the purchase price. For up to how long? Unless stated by them e.g. 6 months, then it is an open ended contract until such determination has been reached.
You have gone above and beyond in defence of your gorgeous bag and the seller knows this, so I would like to think they will stand behind you. My fingers are still crossed.
True, receipts can be faked too. But if you are confident that you bought it from the actual store and you have a paper trail (using your credit card for example thus having cc/bank records) to prove it, then you know you have a leg to stand on. I can access my cc from yesteryears without a big fuss. Also, the receipt is just a physical record of the transaction. If you lose it, you can still prove that a transaction was done thru the store records. Take for example, I bought an item from ten years ago from a regular store. Last month, I went there and wanted to find the matching thing. The manager was able to pull up my record without any issues.
Well, you can think of it this way too. Most people who buy from ”unknown sources” firstly are conditioned (not just plainly told) to believe by the ads/promises these sellers use (ex. 100% guaranteed authentic or your money back! But if you use logic, we know that the CC company only has a window for disputes and your seller can disappear anytime online!) that the expensive signature item they are buying are real. (Of course, given that it is expensive why would you buy it if they say it’s fake or they are unsure of its origin or authenticity and you believe that it’s fake in the first place?) Such that, even when the truth unravels and is so obvious, they refuse to believe it and make excuses for it! Even when a crafts person who trained for four years to master his craft has already said it’s not real! (The irony is that we pay top dollar because the company says it is crafted by the master who was trained for four years before they can even touch the leather. Yet when they are asked for an expert opinion and they say the item is not real, the person who owns the item suddenly questions the knowledge of the true master!) They then will insist, it is real because it was authenticated by so and so. (Note that external authenticators are only giving their opinions. If they are not duly recognized by the HQ and you can’t use it to back up your claim if airport security/cops question you, then when you are checked in an airport and they find your item, it can be seized as it is considered counterfeit and you can be fined a hefty amount. Harsh but that is the law and the truth of the matter.) External authenticators are not connected with the brand. They are not regulated especially by the government. They don’t have one standard process and an approved procedure double checked by an external entity to protect the public. Therefore, anyone with a computer and internet can be an authenticator. They can put up their qualifications on their site. But the government doesn’t check that to make sure that it is true. So here you are, toting a four/five-figure purse that you were made to believe was real to begin with. And when a police who is highly-trained and specializes in counterfeit materials confiscates it and tells you the truth, you get very upset naturally…..to the point that you don’t believe it at all! Why should you? It feels better to believe that you were not duped by anyone and you lost out on such a big amount after all! But then, the long and short of it is you still have a fake item and you lost big money on it!
It is not just France that beefed-up scrutiny and security against counterfeit items long time ago. Even in Asia, there are countries that will destroy your purse if it is a knock-off. It is just fair to protect the tax-paying and legitimate companies and intellectual property rights too. It just makes sense to do that, especially in Paris, known as one of fashion capitals of the world. I read their poster in France before stating something like this: Buy a fake Cartier, get a genuine criminal record! If I will have an item authenticated, I will only personally trust the brand itself. Especially if it is an expensive and signature item. Part of the thing that makes it costly and precious is that they stand behind it and should there be any issues about the item, they will have it fixed/replaced/serviced. And if you confidently know that you bought an item from the actual store and it’s real, you know that confirmation is only one call away and you have a leg to stand on! Just my thoughts.
IMHO, there is no reason to keep attacking this issue on every front. Most people have offered OP their sincerest sympathy and best wishes. We should simply wait until H has given its final determination.
for someone who has just joined a few months ago and has a total of 9 posts, you sure have a lot of opinions. lol
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