Hermes became unfair, deceptive, and fraudulent business

[etoupebirkin]

ITA, all brilliant points.

Repeating to 2.

• Take emotion out of the communication. It’s not personal.

It is hard not to be emotional when something you have been looking forward does not meet expectations and the experience seems ruined. My advice is to take time out and get over the strong feelings. Take a minute, evening, day, and calm down before you start to write. For the best results, help people help you. It's hard to help someone in hysterics, think about the objective and act objectively.

Yes. This. I’m in my 60s. When I was younger, I processed things more emotionally. It did not always work out as I’d hoped. I’m trying to pass on some hard won wisdom here to the younger peeps on the forum.

If I’m involved in a difficult situation, I analyze it and ask myself, “What is the best possible outcome?“ Then work backwards, taking into account all aspects of the problem, including what is the other person’s or entity’s point of view — and likely actions.

Also, one of my best mantras is, “The world does not revolve around me.”

 

[LolaWhisp]

Ladies, of course you can use this as a template. I’m very flattered. To the OP and others, the key to resolving situations like this are:

1. Get you ducks in a row. Be sure you have documented the situation, such as phone calls (date/time/name/discussion topics),emails (take screen shots or make PDFs). Inform your credit card company or PayPal, bank etc. if relevant.
2. Take emotion out of the communication. It’s not personal.
3. Be succinct and factual. Make it easy for someone to quickly understand what occurred. The people you will be interacting with are likely judged by how many situations they resolve per hour.
4. Include documented evidence proving your point such as clearly named photos and contract documentation.
5. Be sure to include a satisfactory resolution to the situation.
6. Be professional and courteous.
7. Check for spelling and grammar. It’s sloppy, and will detract from what you are trying to achieve. (Let’s hope I have no errors here.)

THIS! I would add contact them ASAP upon receipt of the damaged item and ensure you receive the "your inquiry has been received" email if you contact them via email (if you have too large or too many files attached it doesn't go through). Otherwise, they may be reluctant to take the item back which has been my experience with H.com. The more documentation you have, the easier this will be to resolve.

 

[Love Of My Life]

I am very sorry this has happened to you and that you felt humiliated by these transactions. Your feeling of humiliation indicates that Hermes disrespected you in some way. Because these transactions happened online and over the Mail, please try not to take it personally. I did notice, however, that you continue to do business with Hermes online instead of going in person despite your dissatisfaction.

Here in LA, we like to say, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Ask yourself why you continue to do business with Hermes.com if you feel disrespected.

BTW. I am a retired litigator in LA and used to litigate fraud cases. Selling you a scarf that you wanted, for the price that it was listed for on the website, that you agreed to pay for and did pay for is NOT fraud. I understand you are unhappy with some aspect of the scarf, but Hermes did not commit actionable fraud in this instance.

Well said & in spite of the issues that OP has come across, she continues to shop online
And the question becomes WHY?
Do clients expect the best service, sure we do but things fall through the cracks especially
when humans are involved in inventory situations & there are several scenarios that have
been outlined here as probabilities.
In addition, many stores "carry over merchandise" from one season/collection to the next
with price increases
Unfortunately, this was a series of errors at the emotional expense of the OP but I don't see where
the words fraud & deception should be used. OP's emotions are running a little on the wild side, JMO
When I had to return an item to H.com, they arranged for the pick up & there was not a
shipping fee.
We can share our thoughts here openly but OP should contact the CEO of Hermes with
all her experiences & give H an opportunity to explain.

 

[Love Of My Life]

Just to answer questions and make some clarifications.

To some TPFs here who is threating me with that Hermes will never sell me anything anymore - If you affiliated with Hermes, you should apologies here first and not try to intimidate me instead. Otherwise I see this as not appropriate behavior at all.

Hermes is a French luxury goods manufacturer. Main characteristic for a luxury brand is a price and availability to a wide range of consumers. Hermes has premium price that makes its goods less affordable to wide range of consumers.

Hermes never had sale section on website ever. Period. Mostly Hermes done sale off-site and sometime in a physical store. Sending sale item as new from H website is fraud. This is not mis-presentation or as not described case. Nor this is a human error. To re-route goods from sale off-site manager must take known decision. Putting this to warehouse and posting on a website is also management decision. If Hermes add sale section on website, then it is a different story.

Sale stamp on a H scarf is big no-no. It means that a) No return, refund, or exchange in H store b) Item may have some hidden defect(s) c) The scarf potentially was on off-site for a sale d) resale price goes down very dramatically.

Paper tag on a scarf has its full description (ref #, color, name) and unique item number. This is required and became common sense. Some merchants even put a hologram on a paper tag to ensure that goods are genuine. Receiving scarf w/o paper tag raise a question - is this genuine item?

Besides pragmatic aspect consumer has a feeling and expectation that purchase will delight consumer. But when receiving spoiled goods consumer will be upset. Consumer will be upset even more if Hermes ignore problem or send formal reply without acknowledge of the problem. There is no problem to return goods or write email to Hermes, but problem with business degradation and attitude to its customers.

Many love Hermes goods. But let’s face it. Business is fading. Quality degrades. Look at TPF’s numerous threads on cashmere shawls quality, bags quality, scarf’s defects. Calls to stop buying if you have problems with Hermes, is not wise advice. This result other customers will continue receiving spoiled service and goods. Hermes will continue increase price and be ignorant to current and new problems. Instead we must voice existing problem to Hermes, and if Hermes ignores, then post it here. Otherwise Hermes should go out of luxury segment and stop asking for premium price.

OP, whether you like it or not H has the right to determine if you are a valued client with
your history. You should be prepared for the possibility of this. When you open the door
in a manner of speaking using words like trashy, deceptive, & fraudulent you are perhaps
intimidating other potential clients in doing business with H.
While I understand your disappointment, just ask yourself why you continue to shop
with a luxury company that lets you down multiple times.

 

[papertiger]

FYI

1. I've been reminded by a fellow TPFer to remind those that don't know, an 'S' printed on a label does not in itself equal a second or damaged scarf. It merely means it was earmarked for one of the discount sales. Goods bought at this sales are final sale.

1a. I feel it necessary after writing point 1, obvious enough to anyone who's ever been to one of H's sales, scarves at sales are not as well guarded or taken care of as they are in-store. Therefore, had this scarf already done the rounds in-store and survived a sale, it could have slight imperfections due to it's 'travels'. At a sale price, some customers don't mind (though some do).

2. As OP pointed out, the 'S' makes a scarf non-refundable/returnable.

2a. I feel it necessary after writing point 2, obviously enough, that if someone buys a defective/misrepresented item online regardless of what is store/online/sales policy by any company, consumer protection (of wherever you live) should overrule.

 

[QuelleFromage]

It's a salient point that it's not unimaginable that a scarf could have been marked for sale and gotten mixed back in with current inventory.

Sloppiness is not fraud, and it's definitely not personal. Other retailers make similar mistakes: wrong items, broken boxes, and damaged/wrinkled/smelly "new" items. I got a box from a "luxury online retailer" recently that included (as well as what I ordered) a very large industrial sized roll of tape in its holder.....and this is the *second* time I've been gifted a roll of tape from an online retailer! (I did send their tape back )

It's really too bad that H isn't managing its online service as well as we'd all probably expect. I know it's upsetting to order something you really want and it comes damaged, or incorrect, or even just badly packaged. But it's not personal, and it's not criminal. And with H online you can just.....send it back.

 

[leechiyong]

Just to answer questions and make some clarifications.

To some TPFs here who is threating me with that Hermes will never sell me anything anymore - If you affiliated with Hermes, you should apologies here first and not try to intimidate me instead. Otherwise I see this as not appropriate behavior at all.

Hermes is a French luxury goods manufacturer. Main characteristic for a luxury brand is a price and availability to a wide range of consumers. Hermes has premium price that makes its goods less affordable to wide range of consumers.

Hermes never had sale section on website ever. Period. Mostly Hermes done sale off-site and sometime in a physical store. Sending sale item as new from H website is fraud. This is not mis-presentation or as not described case. Nor this is a human error. To re-route goods from sale off-site manager must take known decision. Putting this to warehouse and posting on a website is also management decision. If Hermes add sale section on website, then it is a different story.

Sale stamp on a H scarf is big no-no. It means that a) No return, refund, or exchange in H store b) Item may have some hidden defect(s) c) The scarf potentially was on off-site for a sale d) resale price goes down very dramatically.

Paper tag on a scarf has its full description (ref #, color, name) and unique item number. This is required and became common sense. Some merchants even put a hologram on a paper tag to ensure that goods are genuine. Receiving scarf w/o paper tag raise a question - is this genuine item?

Besides pragmatic aspect consumer has a feeling and expectation that purchase will delight consumer. But when receiving spoiled goods consumer will be upset. Consumer will be upset even more if Hermes ignore problem or send formal reply without acknowledge of the problem. There is no problem to return goods or write email to Hermes, but problem with business degradation and attitude to its customers.

Many love Hermes goods. But let’s face it. Business is fading. Quality degrades. Look at TPF’s numerous threads on cashmere shawls quality, bags quality, scarf’s defects. Calls to stop buying if you have problems with Hermes, is not wise advice. This result other customers will continue receiving spoiled service and goods. Hermes will continue increase price and be ignorant to current and new problems. Instead we must voice existing problem to Hermes, and if Hermes ignores, then post it here. Otherwise Hermes should go out of luxury segment and stop asking for premium price.

I get it. You’re frustrated. I’d be frustrated too if I’d experienced what you have. The thing is, I haven’t. I’m willing to say most of us haven’t, which is why we aren’t going to be frustrated or airing issues and don’t see this as the norm. There might be multiple posts on quality, but how many posts are there from satisfied customers?

I stopped shopping at another house because my experience changed and it wasn’t worth the aggravation. Vocalizing my issues would only cause me further stress because my experience is not the same as others. If others find happiness shopping there, who am I, an internet stranger, to try to degrade their joy for my own personal frustrations?

 

[vildachya]

I would like to take a minute to thank the OP for taking pictures, especially of the S on the Brazil Tattoo tag. The old adage a picture is worth a thousand words comes to mind here, at least for me personally. When ever I see older stock on the Hermes website I feel myself tempted, but have always stopped myself. I felt my heart jump last week when I read in a different thread Acte III GM was back on the web site. Again, I stopped myself. This time I wondered where these shawls have been all this time, and what condition they might be in. Maybe I was wrong, or maybe I was right to be concerned, but for a list of reasons I restrained myself. Now I have a visual reminder with the Brazil Tattoo picture to remind me to err on the side of caution. In the future I will stick to an occasional new twill from that season if I can't get into a boutique. I thankfully have not had an issue with twills ordered from the website, when I buy them in the season they are released. I would hope that is the experience of the majority of people.
When I order from online, I expect the item to be store fresh, no issues, content label to be attached as well as inventory tag. I know on occasion they are tagged incorrectly, which is a different issue, but broken items, sale stamps etc, that is not the experience I want to have. There are folks who are happy with these purchases of older stock, and are willing to take the risk, and have been rewarded with finding grails seasons later. I am just too old and cranky and want to avoid getting aggravated about a shopping experience.
Just my two cents.

 

[think96]

I am just too old and cranky and want to avoid getting aggravated about a shopping experience.

Unfortunately it is hard to avoid as new season scarfs may have a paper tag missing as well, as with Bolduc I got (pictured).

 

[closetluxe]

Yes. This. I’m in my 60s. When I was younger, I processed things more emotionally. It did not always work out as I’d hoped. I’m trying to pass on some hard won wisdom here to the younger peeps on the forum.

If I’m involved in a difficult situation, I analyze it and ask myself, “What is the best possible outcome?“ Then work backwards, taking into account all aspects of the problem, including what is the other person’s or entity’s point of view — and likely actions.

Also, one of my best mantras is, “The world does not revolve around me.”

I love your mantra! Need to tell myself that often too.

 

[texas87]

I would like to take a minute to thank the OP for taking pictures, especially of the S on the Brazil Tattoo tag. The old adage a picture is worth a thousand words comes to mind here, at least for me personally. When ever I see older stock on the Hermes website I feel myself tempted, but have always stopped myself. I felt my heart jump last week when I read in a different thread Acte III GM was back on the web site. Again, I stopped myself. This time I wondered where these shawls have been all this time, and what condition they might be in. Maybe I was wrong, or maybe I was right to be concerned, but for a list of reasons I restrained myself. Now I have a visual reminder with the Brazil Tattoo picture to remind me to err on the side of caution. In the future I will stick to an occasional new twill from that season if I can't get into a boutique. I thankfully have not had an issue with twills ordered from the website, when I buy them in the season they are released. I would hope that is the experience of the majority of people.
When I order from online, I expect the item to be store fresh, no issues, content label to be attached as well as inventory tag. I know on occasion they are tagged incorrectly, which is a different issue, but broken items, sale stamps etc, that is not the experience I want to have. There are folks who are happy with these purchases of older stock, and are willing to take the risk, and have been rewarded with finding grails seasons later. I am just too old and cranky and want to avoid getting aggravated about a shopping experience.
Just my two cents.

Just to assuage your fears a tiny bit (though completely understandable), I purchased the Acte III shawl when it came back and it arrived in perfect factory folded condition to my boutique last week. My SA has placed so many online orders for me and everything has come in perfect condition. Once or twice a paper tag has been missing, but honestly that does not bother me. I know it may to some people, but I know people who buy new season silks with missing paper tags.

IMO I'm sorry you are so upset OP. I think you have received some great advice already, and should probably reconsider your practice of purchasing online or with Hermes in general if you've been burned so many times. Oh and I don't think anyone was threatening you by letting you know that Hermes may cease their relationship with you. I think they are giving you fair warning of a possible outcome based on the information you have provided. Perhaps you may not have considered this outcome, and these members were trying to let you know this is a possibility.

 

[vildachya]

Just to assuage your fears a tiny bit (though completely understandable), I purchased the Acte III shawl when it came back and it arrived in perfect factory folded condition to my boutique last week. My SA has placed so many online orders for me and everything has come in perfect condition. Once or twice a paper tag has been missing, but honestly that does not bother me. I know it may to some people, but I know people who buy new season silks with missing paper tags.

IMO I'm sorry you are so upset OP. I think you have received some great advice already, and should probably reconsider your practice of purchasing online or with Hermes in general if you've been burned so many times. Oh and I don't think anyone was threatening you by letting you know that Hermes may cease their relationship with you. I think they are giving you fair warning of a possible outcome based on the information you have provided. Perhaps you may not have considered this outcome, and these members were trying to let you know this is a possibility.

 

[vildachya]

If I could have older stock from online sent to a boutique then I would be more comfortable, but I rarely get to the boutiques these days. Oh, not to mention I have Acte III in one color way already, lol. Curious, if it were not in perfect condition, can you pass on it?

 

[texas87]

If I could have older stock from online sent to a boutique then I would be more comfortable, but I rarely get to the boutiques these days. Oh, not to mention I have Acte III in one color way already, lol. Curious, if it were not in perfect condition, can you pass on it?

That makes sense. I feel more secure buying through my SA. Plus I like to give her the commission. Yes, if there was something wrong with it, I can always have her return it to corporate.

 

[de vent]

I too had this challenge, with my most recent online order. The Aloha Dip Dye scarf 70, in rosé pale. Item H082026S 06. While no “s” mark, it did have “issues”. Wrong box, no ribbon, the item looked used not new. I called customer service and was instructed to send an email with pictures. I’d like a replacement, so fingers crossed that one can be located.