Hermes became unfair, deceptive, and fraudulent business

[Birkinitis]

I don’t understand the drama. This is an online business transaction. Here’s the email I would write H.com.

Subject Line: Hermes.com Order # (Insert Order Number) Received Item Clearly Marked SALE, But I Paid Full Price / Please Advise

To whom it may concern:

On XX/XX/2022, I ordered XXXXX scarf on H.com for $XXX.XX — full and current retail price for the scarf. The scarf I received on XX/XX/2022, via (INSERT TRACKING NUMBER) is clearly marked as a sale item. See attachment XXXXXXX.GIF or PNG or PDF — Take picture of the scarf with the sale stamp. Name the picture clearly “Your Last Name_Transaction_#”. This is disconcerting and leaves two options, please:

1. Reimburse me for the delta between the sale price and the retail price and allow me right of refusal. Or,

2. Allow me to return the scarf and reimburse me for the scarf, plus all shipping fees (both ways) to and from Hermes.

Please note I have notified my credit card company of this situation and am cc’ing them on this email to ensure all parties are notified.

I appreciate your help resolving this situation promptly and to my satisfaction.

Sincerely,
OP

Mind if I copy this? I've never had problems with anything pertaining to Hermes but I have with other companies. I need to keep this sample wording available as your writing is far more professional than my "this sucks and so does your lousy company so I am returning it." I like your style.

 

[A1aGypsy]

This is what I was talking about. @papertiger @c18027

Bought stole (cost $1600 US). Came with care tag torn. (See picture)

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[Hermes Zen]

Just today I had an item picked up to return to h.com. My very first h.com return ever. It was a petit h item that had been available online for years. I purchased the same item 5 years ago and loved it. This one arrived with the top knot rattling (coming loose and couldn't be tightened, or was broken). By the look of the tissue it had been returned multiple times. My thought, the warehouse doesn't inspect each item that's returned and places it back into inventory for repurchase. I called customer service and they heard the rattling over the phone and had me send photos etc to a department at h.com. They seemed to be surprised and understanding of my return. They asked if I wanted to get refunded. I decided to have it exchanged for another. Crossing my fingers for a better replacement. There's only a couple available in the system. I would hope someone will check the condition before they ship me another. Otherwise, I might be returning it for a refund. I have to admit I was surprised by the condition.

 

[c18027]

This is what I was talking about. @papertiger @c18027

Thanks for clarifying. Yes, for the 70% cashmere/30% silk 140cm shawls, the fabric tag is lightly tacked only to the rolled hem. The OP’s shawl appears to have a leather hem, so perhaps a different attachment method is used in order to prevent piercing of the leather.

 

[880]

Mind if I copy this? I've never had problems with anything pertaining to Hermes but I have with other companies. I need to keep this sample wording available as your writing is far more professional than my "this sucks and so does your lousy company so I am returning it." I like your style.

@etoupebirkin , I would like to copy this too. it could be a professional template.

i am fortunate in that I can inspect items prior to purchase (I tend not to buy on line)

 

[momoc]

I remember reading in (I think) one of those financial result reports a comment from H regarding their online stores sector, and it was basically saying they are doing super well selling online and they are expecting it to grow even more. Makes a lot of sense, there is definitely a lot of expansion and growth in shopping online (convenience, the pandemic, etc.) and I wonder if they are short-staffed and scrambling to meet demands in this space (everything from hiring to training to updating their processes and adapting to new problems that arise). The websites have always been prone to mistakes (wrong or missing photos for items, wrong color labeled, incorrectly photoshopped item pictures…) and then there’s that whole issue of robots buying…

I do believe that the comment I read (and the fact that they have been working and updating the website, anyone remember how it used to look like years ago?) means H knows that their online stores are a lucrative and useful part of their business going forward and I hope they work on improving all aspects of it, including the warehouse/fulfillment/returns quality check pipelines, which is what I assume had issues in OP’s case.

OP, I hope you get a successful refund!

 

[think96]

Just to answer questions and make some clarifications.

To some TPFs here who is threating me with that Hermes will never sell me anything anymore - If you affiliated with Hermes, you should apologies here first and not try to intimidate me instead. Otherwise I see this as not appropriate behavior at all.

Hermes is a French luxury goods manufacturer. Main characteristic for a luxury brand is a price and availability to a wide range of consumers. Hermes has premium price that makes its goods less affordable to wide range of consumers.

Hermes never had sale section on website ever. Period. Mostly Hermes done sale off-site and sometime in a physical store. Sending sale item as new from H website is fraud. This is not mis-presentation or as not described case. Nor this is a human error. To re-route goods from sale off-site manager must take known decision. Putting this to warehouse and posting on a website is also management decision. If Hermes add sale section on website, then it is a different story.

Sale stamp on a H scarf is big no-no. It means that a) No return, refund, or exchange in H store b) Item may have some hidden defect(s) c) The scarf potentially was on off-site for a sale d) resale price goes down very dramatically.

Paper tag on a scarf has its full description (ref #, color, name) and unique item number. This is required and became common sense. Some merchants even put a hologram on a paper tag to ensure that goods are genuine. Receiving scarf w/o paper tag raise a question - is this genuine item?

Besides pragmatic aspect consumer has a feeling and expectation that purchase will delight consumer. But when receiving spoiled goods consumer will be upset. Consumer will be upset even more if Hermes ignore problem or send formal reply without acknowledge of the problem. There is no problem to return goods or write email to Hermes, but problem with business degradation and attitude to its customers.

Many love Hermes goods. But let’s face it. Business is fading. Quality degrades. Look at TPF’s numerous threads on cashmere shawls quality, bags quality, scarf’s defects. Calls to stop buying if you have problems with Hermes, is not wise advice. This result other customers will continue receiving spoiled service and goods. Hermes will continue increase price and be ignorant to current and new problems. Instead we must voice existing problem to Hermes, and if Hermes ignores, then post it here. Otherwise Hermes should go out of luxury segment and stop asking for premium price.

 

[haute okole]

It is not dramatic... Unfortunately this is not a single case for me, this became a norm from Hermes online. Look at this from outside, but not as a customer who desperately wants something from a merchant. This is similar to iPhone without a charger or mixer without bowl. Customer expects acceptable service from Hermes but not a gimmick because goods sells with high demand. This does not mean that customer should accepts whatever Hermes ship from a warehouse. Some details from my experience.

Orange H box does not match the scarf size. Not big deal once, twice, but ten's times. How about receiving cashmere shawl in the tie box? This is a joke from Hermes, or mockery, or what? I did write Hermes each time. Still I am receiving wrong H boxes.

Wrinkled, I mean very wrinkled paper in H box with a scarf. Let's look at Japan Hermes, you will get cardboard to ensure scarf keep its form in a place. Does US Hermes care, no, they do not.

Bought stole (cost $1600 US). Came with care tag torn. (See picture) Stole smells strong like lysine, really like lysine. Is this what? Can Hermes just glimpse (and smell) on what they ship? No they do not.

Bought (in 3/2022) Bolduc au Carre scarf 90. (See picture) Very hard to buy. Current season. No more available online. Received without paper tag. Scarf is creased in half. The paper tag was always attached to the new scarfs many years in row. But still I am getting "new" scarf without paper tag. Guess what Hermes responded. I was told that paper tag can be removed by various reasons. It is OK - for Hermes. Here is my reason why it was removed - scarf was used and returned to the store and routed to H.com for resale. Can be very real reason, right?
The same for cashmere shawl Acte III, Scene I, La Clairiere - no paper tag (bought in 3/2022) (See picture)

And this happened within a last month. I see this a complete degradation of "luxury service" from Hermes. Numerous emails to customer support does not make any difference. This is luxury seller and this kind of service unacceptable. It is -
* Unfair - Hermes pretends to be a luxury company with a premium price but service goes below Saks, Neiman Marcus, and Bergdorf Goodman
* Deceptive - selling items as new but shipping worn, creased scarfs, and often without tags
* Fraudulent - selling discontinued and reduced in price goods for a new increased price


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I am very sorry this has happened to you and that you felt humiliated by these transactions. Your feeling of humiliation indicates that Hermes disrespected you in some way. Because these transactions happened online and over the Mail, please try not to take it personally. I did notice, however, that you continue to do business with Hermes online instead of going in person despite your dissatisfaction.

Here in LA, we like to say, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.” Ask yourself why you continue to do business with Hermes.com if you feel disrespected.

BTW. I am a retired litigator in LA and used to litigate fraud cases. Selling you a scarf that you wanted, for the price that it was listed for on the website, that you agreed to pay for and did pay for is NOT fraud. I understand you are unhappy with some aspect of the scarf, but Hermes did not commit actionable fraud in this instance.

 

[I AM GPT]

Here is some behind the scenes footage discussing the listing of sales item on H.com





Edited: PT

 

[WhiteBus]

The only aspect of this sorry tale with which I have any sympathy is the 'S' marked scarf.

I did buy Brazil Tattoo 90 cm jacquard silk from AW 2017 season on US H.com this 2022 year. And received … SALE stamped scarf! Unbelievable. Never had such disgrace from Hermes. They sent a sale stamped scarf for a new raised $480 US price that cost $395 in 2017 year new and $215 US on sale. The 5 years old scarf with SALE stamp can only be sold on a sale but not in online H.com website.

But then I question . . .
Other than the stamped label, how does the Original Poster know it was ever on sale;
how does she know the sale price?
Correct me if I am wrong, but are the only opportunities to buy items 'on sale' from Hermes from the special sale events held at special venues in Paris and New York once or twice a year?

Are other members aware of any items being 'on sale' and at a marked down price for clearance one year and then new stock of the same items being available from the stores in subsequent years?

 

[FaubourgTropical]

Maybe I am an easy going, nooby, uninformed customer but the torn tags, 'removeable' paper tag, unsuitable packaging, lack of carton backing, sale scarf, etc would not bother me as long as the product is what I want and in good condition. I would throw away all those anyway because I will use them, not to sell. I dislike excess packaging and wouldn’t feel entitled to rubbish (ie anything but the product) just because H is expensive.

I sympathize though with the pain of missed expectation. And I do see the point of packaging for gifts. Considered us warned.

 

[Tasha1]

i am fortunate in that I can inspect items prior to purchase (I tend not to buy on line)

we are in the same boat. If I buy something online, it happens once in a blue moon, I redirect my purchase to the local store. I examine it before taking it home or the store sends it back.
Actually, I stopped buying online as I hate this returning ado. It costs me time and negative emotions.

 

[papertiger]

The only aspect of this sorry tale with which I have any sympathy is the 'S' marked scarf.



But then I question . . .
Other than the stamped label, how does the Original Poster know it was ever on sale;
how does she know the sale price?
Correct me if I am wrong, but are the only opportunities to buy items 'on sale' from Hermes from the special sale events held at special venues in Paris and New York once or twice a year?

Are other members aware of any items being 'on sale' and at a marked down price for clearance one year and then new stock of the same items being available from the stores in subsequent years?

Hermes marked S is marked as a sale scarf, fact, doesn't matter it actual one went to a sale or not. Unless it's clearly stated in the products details that it's marked as such, H should not be selling it as perfect. It does affect value and in every way. As someone mentioned earlier, if it doesn't meet with expectations to be given as a precious gift, it's not good enough.

For me personally, this is not a decline of quality in service or products, I've often had problems with H and for over 10 years on and off and I don't just mean h.com. They are too big for their (very expensive) boots. Hermes can be very H-uman.

When they get it right, many of their staff and their products are absolutely wonderful. I was going through a bag yesterday and found my little horse's mane comb in a RH chèvre case, which other company would even bother making something like that, let alone making it so beautifully?

 

[etoupebirkin]

@etoupebirkin , I would like to copy this too. it could be a professional template.

i am fortunate in that I can inspect items prior to purchase (I tend not to buy on line)

Ladies, of course you can use this as a template. I’m very flattered. To the OP and others, the key to resolving situations like this are:

1. Get you ducks in a row. Be sure you have documented the situation, such as phone calls (date/time/name/discussion topics),emails (take screen shots or make PDFs). Inform your credit card company or PayPal, bank etc. if relevant.
2. Take emotion out of the communication. It’s not personal.
3. Be succinct and factual. Make it easy for someone to quickly understand what occurred. The people you will be interacting with are likely judged by how many situations they resolve per hour.
4. Include documented evidence proving your point such as clearly named photos and contract documentation.
5. Be sure to include a satisfactory resolution to the situation.
6. Be professional and courteous.
7. Check for spelling and grammar. It’s sloppy, and will detract from what you are trying to achieve. (Let’s hope I have no errors here.)

 

[papertiger]

Ladies, of course you can use this as a template. I’m very flattered. To the OP and others, the key to resolving situations like this are:

1. Get you ducks in a row. Be sure you have documented the situation, such as phone calls (date/time/name/discussion topics),emails (take screen shots or make PDFs). Inform your credit card company or PayPal, bank etc. if relevant.
2. Take emotion out of the communication. It’s not personal.
3. Be succinct and factual. Make it easy for someone to quickly understand what occurred. The people you will be interacting with are likely judged by how many situations they resolve per hour.
4. Include documented evidence proving your point such as clearly named photos and contract documentation.
5. Be sure to include a satisfactory resolution to the situation.
6. Be professional and courteous.
7. Check for spelling and grammar. It’s sloppy, and will detract from what you are trying to achieve. (Let’s hope I have no errors here.)

ITA, all brilliant points.

Repeating to 2.

• Take emotion out of the communication. It’s not personal.

It is hard not to be emotional when something you have been looking forward does not meet expectations and the experience seems ruined. My advice is to take time out and get over the strong feelings. Take a minute, evening, day, and calm down before you start to write. For the best results, help people help you. It's hard to help someone in hysterics, think about the objective and act objectively.