Customer Service/Quality Control issues post here.

[sgreg]

I am arguing the point with you because I do not believe you fair to both sides. We have the same goal, stop the drama, but our opinions differ on how to achieve that goal. I believe the drama stems from posters who defend BE at every turn & subtley or not so subtley attempt to invalidate legitimate QC/CS issue.

Obviously, extremists on one side think the other side is completely at fault, otherwise there wouldn't be the kind of unproductive (as interesting as they were) discussions that we've been participating in recently.

Your solution to be fair to both sides is for the other side to pull their head in, because they are the ones in the wrong. I kind of veer a little to the other side, believing that a QC/CS thread should be for objective criticism and factual problems only (Like susa and LL's issues), rather than being a complaints thread. I think drama might give me wrinkles.

Suzi's solution was for the extremists on BOTH sides to pull their heads in a little, which is realistically the fairest solution of them all, both fundamentally and in the context of the recent dramas. It wouldn't be my personal decision , but that's why someone more levelheaded and who can behave impartially like Suzi is the moderator and not I.

 

[risingsun]

I absolutely agree that people with CS/QC issues should be able to post about their experiences in a factual way. Constructive feedback and support is to be expected and welcomed. Some people have, IMO, stepped over the line and made personal attacks. I do not think that this is appropriate and will not resolve anything. I look at this thread to see if there are any CS/QC issues I need to be aware of. I believe that is simply due diligence. What I've encountered is something very different. I agree with suzi. This thread needs to be used for helping customers, not to create drama. As sgreg stated, this thread should focus on objective criticism and factual problems. If we can do this, we will have accomplished something useful.

 

[merika]

I also find it puzzling WHY some members are extremely offended at those of us who have had NO negative issues, or choose to keep them private.

I'm not offended or anything, lol, but I believe if you mention the fact many times in a thread for customer complaints it sort of feels (at least to me) like you're not validating the perspective of a person whose feelings have been hurt for whatever reason. I'm not talking about you personally, but about those posts in general.

It reminds me of one of DS's friends when DS was sitting in a field crying because he'd fallen and hurt himself "Oh, I don't fall when I'm running, and even if I do I don't cry like a baby", lol.

 

[Contessa]

I'm not offended or anything, lol, but I believe if you mention the fact many times in a thread for customer complaints it sort of feels (at least to me) like you're not validating the perspective of a person whose feelings have been hurt for whatever reason. I'm not talking about you personally, but about those posts in general.

It reminds me of one of DS's friends when DS was sitting in a field crying because he'd fallen and hurt himself "Oh, I don't fall when I'm running, and even if I do I don't cry like a baby", lol.

Glad this isn't directed at me personally.

Actually this is reminiscent of the "don't hate me because I'm beautiful syndrome"

Also ironic is the fact that these complaints have spread to other SF's.......shall I begin to complain about Ignes here? Or do I visit their SF?

Decisions, decisions.......

 

[Megs]

A thread that is for customer service and quality control issues is for just that - problems. This thread is for people to freely voice problems/concerns they are having with this brand and the bags. If you don't have any and you don't like to see people that do, don't come into this thread.

Plenty of other subforums have similar threads and never have near the amount of issues as this subforum. Our forum was started for people to share opinions - and to see people being told to stop sharing them is 100% against why we ever started tPF.

I know every global mod, admin, and Suzi are getting fed up with this thread. Again, if you have a question, ask it, but this thread is straight forward. It is for complaints and concerns. If it bothers you so much to see them, don't come into this thread. But this thread will stay open and we will continue to allow people to post what has happened to them, what they think about it, etc - as long as it follows our rules and is within reason.

 

[sgreg]

Actually this is reminiscent of the "don't hate me because I'm beautiful syndrome".

What is this one! I had a friend that twisted her ankle. Firstly it was bruised, then healing. A month later, we were still hearing about it. Every time we'd go - hi there, how are you doing? we'd get a rundown on her ankle. She couldn't go to the movies because she was worried she'd further hurt The Ankle navigating the steep stairs. She couldn't go out at night because the cold hurt The Ankle. If anyone else had a cold or any sort of medical issue, she'd bring up The Ankle. I'm presuming the don't hate me I'm beautiful syndrome is similar, but with I'm beautiful substituted for I'm hurt?

 

[lovebags2]

Megs, excellent post!

Sillykitty, I have two words for you - thank you!

 

[Ms.Lizardo]

Megs and Swanky thank you very much for all of your help and input.

Suzi, I read your explanation, and thanks for clarifying the purpose of this thread.

Merika, you are a wealth of knowledge on customs policies. I also heard about a form or section of the form that can be used to prevent the receiver from getting charged fees for a return or a repair. I think it requires extra processing, and not all delivery companies will deliver goods with that type of form, but at least the sender could fill it out properly with peace of mind.

Of course I still wish there was solution about being able to insure a returned bag. I hate mailing anything without insurance. It's good to hear that Jackie has agreed to absorb the loss of any lost bag sent back. Maybe BE can update or change their terms and conditions page at the site to reflect this.

 

[gingeybear]

* Although I had stated that I would not post again,I returned once after posting the lack of satisfactory resolution.

* I did so in order to clarify that the matter of undervaluing bags was not solely a request by BE as far as returns just to Italy but also was spelled out succinctly in two emails to me before returning a bag to England. This was not the first time, but also occured a year ago as well.

*I'm returning again to express my support for any one who who comes to the BE SF and posts on this QC/CS thread in hopes of objectivity.

* I mean any individual, past present and future who had/has or will have purchased directly from BE and has a QC or CS problem that he or she wants to bring to members attention for an objective opinion or suggestions.

* Many of us, including some of you here, have no compunctions about posting our QC/CS issues about a different brand in another SF I belong to.

*If someone purchased directly from BE , whether sample, stock or couture, and had never brought an issue to the BE SF, and kept silent for whatever reason, yet this time she wanted to take it public, for whatever reason, well, that is her right.

Megs, (and Swanky too), thank you. In light of everything, I appreciate that you stepped in to remind this SF what a QC/CS thread is for, regardless of whether someone has bought one bag and had a problem with a brand or designer, or one hundred.


Sillykitty, thank you, too.


* I returned here to post the above and to thank Megs, and SK.

* Rest assured that I am not purchasing another BE directly from BE again so I will have no other QC or CS issues.

* There is a great deal more that I would say but won't. Good luck.

 

[merika]

Megs and Swanky thank you very much for all of your help and input.

Suzi, I read your explanation, and thanks for clarifying the purpose of this thread.

Merika, you are a wealth of knowledge on customs policies. I also heard about a form or section of the form that can be used to prevent the receiver from getting charged fees for a return or a repair. I think it requires extra processing, and not all delivery companies will deliver goods with that type of form, but at least the sender could fill it out properly with peace of mind.

Of course I still wish there was solution about being able to insure a returned bag. I hate mailing anything without insurance. It's good to hear that Jackie has agreed to absorb the loss of any lost bag sent back. Maybe BE can update or change their terms and conditions page at the site to reflect this.

For the UK, the form downloadable at the link below has to be filed by the recipient (who originally sent out the item) so as not to be charged customs.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...Forms&propertyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000409 The form is in pdf format.

 

[K.Z.]

...We have the same goal, stop the drama, but our opinions differ on how to achieve that goal. I believe the drama stems from posters who defend BE at every turn & subtley or not so subtley attempt to invalidate legitimate QC/CS issue...

I think that's a valid point.

Sillykitty~have you had a problem with a BE bag and has it been resolved?

IMO, this is the kind of comment that can unleash drama kuz it can be interpreted as the person saying that sillykitty either doesn't have the right to an opinion about the nature of this thread (now being discussed) unless she's had a cs/qc issue, or (and of this I know nothing) since she had a problem and it was resolved, she can't have an opinion or complaint about the turn the thread has taken. Not accusing--just pointing out how such remarks can be interpreted.
______________________


As someone who just recently started to hang around here more often (though I've lurked on and off for a year), I have noticed a tendency to take BE issues to a personal level, which, of course, leads to drama.

Any hint at "I haven't had an issue...all my bags are right"--said directly or skillfully indirectly--on this or any other thread where a member is posting about a problem has only one result: to invalidate that person's claim.

I think invalidation is destructive kuz it crushes the invalidated person's ability to be open and honest...to trust others. And feeling invalidated is an extremely uncomfortable emotion that more often than not leads to the person withdrawing from others or fighting back; hence the drama.

A thread that is for customer service and quality control issues is for just that - problems. This thread is for people to freely voice problems/concerns they are having with this brand and the bags. If you don't have any and you don't like to see people that do, don't come into this thread.

Plenty of other subforums have similar threads and never have near the amount of issues as this subforum. Our forum was started for people to share opinions - and to see people being told to stop sharing them is 100% against why we ever started tPF.

I know every global mod, admin, and Suzi are getting fed up with this thread. Again, if you have a question, ask it, but this thread is straight forward. It is for complaints and concerns. If it bothers you so much to see them, don't come into this thread. But this thread will stay open and we will continue to allow people to post what has happened to them, what they think about it, etc - as long as it follows our rules and is within reason.

I believe "freely" is the operative word here. By now, I wonder if anyone here posts their issues freely--without expecting someone to show up with an invalidating remark and rather than help add to an already stressful situation. First is the cs/qc issue, then is the reaction from members who, because they're BE fans and either have no complaints or choose not to share them, don't want to see anything negative posted.

Instead of the s/f being a home for a group of members with a common interest in a brand having both positive and negative experiences with it, it's turned into a minefield. Just the other day a mine exploded under me without me ever being aware that I had stepped on one. TBH, it turned me off to this s/f big time and has led to me limit my time here. Why am I still here? Kuz I think the bags are beautiful, and I like looking at them. And while I have decided that BEC is not for me, I can still shop for BE on Bonz.

I agree that cs/qc seems to be more of a touchy subject here than in other s/fs, which IMO shows that people are taking it to a personal level and that "sides" have developed.

The problem is people feel threatened whether they are on the cheering "side" or the complaining "side." I think it would help to put those whose posts trigger you in your Ignore List. I find that helps a lot, and I get into trouble whenever I stop using it. To expect those you disagree with to change their mind based on your experience or stop posting kuz you disagree with them is to ask for trouble (aka, drama).

If your bag arrives as ordered, be happy! Do a reveal and review, posts photos, share your joy. If it's messed up, you have every right to be frustrated, angry, disappointed, whatever, and to complain about it and post what happened to (a) get help and support, and (b) warn others about potential problems with that particular bag, leather, color, whatever. Information is power both ways.


PS: I fully expect some people to disapprove of my post. Pls know this: it is intended to share thoughts and opinions with good intentions, not to attack anyone here. You don't have to take it personal, but I can't stop you if that's what you wanna do.

 

[*suzi*]

Obviously, extremists on one side think the other side is completely at fault, otherwise there wouldn't be the kind of unproductive (as interesting as they were) discussions that we've been participating in recently.

Your solution to be fair to both sides is for the other side to pull their head in, because they are the ones in the wrong. I kind of veer a little to the other side, believing that a QC/CS thread should be for objective criticism and factual problems only (Like susa and LL's issues), rather than being a complaints thread. I think drama might give me wrinkles.

Suzi's solution was for the extremists on BOTH sides to pull their heads in a little, which is realistically the fairest solution of them all, both fundamentally and in the context of the recent dramas. It wouldn't be my personal decision , but that's why someone more levelheaded and who can behave impartially like Suzi is the moderator and not I.

I'm totally not level headed today. I have been visiting my English aunt who is taking a trip around the world because her cancer drugs are not working. I've been very upset that this drama started exactly when I got here, and now I am leaving. I'll be posting more in another thread.

 

[lovebags2]

Um, it looks like I have a few more to thank besides SillyKitty and Megs today. Ladies, today I made a decision to leave not only BE but I was leaning toward this forum as well due to all the constant drama.

Years ago when I was a loyal customer I recall losing several BE friends from this forum because they'd often complain to me that their voices weren't being heard in the proper way it was intended and they felt like they had to walk on eggshells in fear of well we all know what at this point....

At the time I didn't see it. Well my friends I've come full circle now. If anyone is reading this post from years ago I sincerely apologize. I just didn't have all the information and awareness that I have now both about BE as a company and the dynamics of this forum.

I just want to say "thank you" to everyone that has PM'd me today to sway me to stay on the forum. Very touching actually. And what's even more touching is that some of those PM's actually came from members that are how do I say this - not in my camp? But, yet they still asked me to stay because they respected my opinions regardless of whether or not we had a different perspective on BE. That touched me the most actually and prompted me to write this post.

Let me give this more of one of my "good thinks" over the weekend. I mean who wants to stay around for more drama? I lead such a happy, peaceful and relaxing way of life in my everyday with my family. But then part of my "happy" life has been the friendships I've formed right here. So you see? I'm a bit in a dilemna, no?

Someone quite wise who I have a lot of respect for on this forum told me today if I go then I've just given into what "they" want. Yes I've seen so many nice, intelligent and educated women "go" and I rather not be added to that list. (LOL Okay, I"m being a little vein with that last comment).

I think everyone here has always for the most part regardless of issue agreed on this one common ground - the hope for resolution. If anyone has a suggestion on how to resolve whats been happening here then please by all means let us know (in a friendly manner, of course). I"m listening....

 

[sgreg]

I'm totally not level headed today. I have been visiting my English aunt who is taking a trip around the world because her cancer drugs are not working. I've been very upset that this drama started exactly when I got here, and now I am leaving. I'll be posting more in another thread.

I'm so sorry to hear your about your aunt, Suzi. It is lovely you were able to spend some time with her, and this must have been an added stress, sorry.

 

[VanBod1525]

I think that's a valid point.



IMO, this is the kind of comment that can unleash drama kuz it can be interpreted as the person saying that sillykitty either doesn't have the right to an opinion about the nature of this thread (now being discussed) unless she's had a cs/qc issue, or (and of this I know nothing) since she had a problem and it was resolved, she can't have an opinion or complaint about the turn the thread has taken. Not accusing--just pointing out how such remarks can be interpreted.
______________________


As someone who just recently started to hang around here more often (though I've lurked on and off for a year), I have noticed a tendency to take BE issues to a personal level, which, of course, leads to drama.

Any hint at "I haven't had an issue...all my bags are right"--said directly or skillfully indirectly--on this or any other thread where a member is posting about a problem has only one result: to invalidate that person's claim.

I think invalidation is destructive kuz it crushes the invalidated person's ability to be open and honest...to trust others. And feeling invalidated is an extremely uncomfortable emotion that more often than not leads to the person withdrawing from others or fighting back; hence the drama.



I believe "freely" is the operative word here. By now, I wonder if anyone here posts their issues freely--without expecting someone to show up with an invalidating remark and rather than help add to an already stressful situation. First is the cs/qc issue, then is the reaction from members who, because they're BE fans and either have no complaints or choose not to share them, don't want to see anything negative posted.

Instead of the s/f being a home for a group of members with a common interest in a brand having both positive and negative experiences with it, it's turned into a minefield. Just the other day a mine exploded under me without me ever being aware that I had stepped on one. TBH, it turned me off to this s/f big time and has led to me limit my time here. Why am I still here? Kuz I think the bags are beautiful, and I like looking at them. And while I have decided that BEC is not for me, I can still shop for BE on Bonz.

I agree that cs/qc seems to be more of a touchy subject here than in other s/fs, which IMO shows that people are taking it to a personal level and that "sides" have developed.

The problem is people feel threatened whether they are on the cheering "side" or the complaining "side." I think it would help to put those whose posts trigger you in your Ignore List. I find that helps a lot, and I get into trouble whenever I stop using it. To expect those you disagree with to change their mind based on your experience or stop posting kuz you disagree with them is to ask for trouble (aka, drama).

If your bag arrives as ordered, be happy! Do a reveal and review, posts photos, share your joy. If it's messed up, you have every right to be frustrated, angry, disappointed, whatever, and to complain about it and post what happened to (a) get help and support, and (b) warn others about potential problems with that particular bag, leather, color, whatever. Information is power both ways.


PS: I fully expect some people to disapprove of my post. Pls know this: it is intended to share thoughts and opinions with good intentions, not to attack anyone here. You don't have to take it personal, but I can't stop you if that's what you wanna do.