Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

[chococatx]

Wow I’m so sorry to hear this. Getting items back in even worse condition than when you sent them in is so stressful to deal with. I wonder if your local cobbler would be able to get rid of the stain somehow with a glue remover.

As for your bag repairs may I ask approximately how long it took to get the bags back? And may I ask how much it was to replace the hardware? I find it totally unacceptable that brand new bags would already have rusted hardware and really disappointed that these kinds of bags slip through Chanel QC all the time. I have a stitch on the back of a brand new CF that was undone upon opening all the brand new wrapping in the box which is a pretty minor defect compared to what many others have experienced with the brand.

About 8 months. One took over a year and a half but that one was during COVID. Shoes not very long (~2 months). They were all complimentary.

And that's a good idea! I might just go to my local cobbler to see if it can be re-repaired.

 

[tenshix]

About 8 months. One took over a year and a half but that one was during COVID. Shoes not very long (~2 months). They were all complimentary.

And that's a good idea! I might just go to my local cobbler to see if it can be re-repaired.

Gosh those are crazy long turnaround times! Thank you for the info.

I hope your shoes can still be repaired, hopefully the cobblers can remove the stains.

 

[waterlily112]

You are correct. If you are in the USA, bag gets sent to New Jersey. That's what my repair specialist told me when I sent in 3 or 4 of my bags. My classic flaps (brand new) already had hardware rusting and that rust would stain my bag and straps. Had to send them in for complete hardware replacement.

I now check the hardware before purchasing any more classic flaps.

I had my shoes repaired (I don't know where shoes get repaired), but they did a horrendous job. There are visible glue stains from the repair on my shoes that cannot be erased. I regret sending my shoes in and should have done the repair myself.

That's insane there are quality issues with the classic flaps too. You'd think if they decided cut corners with newer designs, at least try to maintain the quality for the classics. Unfortunately I've seen a YouTuber with similar issues on her 22C white classic flap too, the hardware is rusting, leaving black stains all over the bag and straps too. Another kicker is that when she brought it in to the boutique, the SA just gaslit her into thinking she wasn't storing her bag properly, and then saying if the repair department deemed the damage of her bag is caused by her and not a defect, they won't do anything about it. Like seriously? God forbid if I take my classic flap to brunch and spill red wine on it, I'd still like to have my bag repaired even if it's my own fault. I really don't get it.

Here's her video in case anyone's interested:

 

[chococatx]

That's insane there are quality issues with the classic flaps too. You'd think if they decided cut corners with newer designs, at least try to maintain the quality for the classics. Unfortunately I've seen a YouTuber with similar issues on her 22C white classic flap too, the hardware is rusting, leaving black stains all over the bag and straps too. Another kicker is that when she brought it in to the boutique, the SA just gaslit her into thinking she wasn't storing her bag properly, and then saying if the repair department deemed the damage of her bag is caused by her and not a defect, they won't do anything about it. Like seriously? God forbid if I take my classic flap to brunch and spill red wine on it, I'd still like to have my bag repaired even if it's my own fault. I really don't get it.

Here's her video in case anyone's interested:

Yes, that's exactly what happened to my classic flaps. I also heard the funky town bags had this issue and ruined a lady's jacket she was wearing while taking the bag out because the black stains from the rusted hardware got onto her jacket.

 

[zaraha]

Are you in the US? Regardless, there is no repair shop in Paris. The bags are assembled in Italy.
If you’re in the US, ask them why they’re not sending it to be checked in for repair in New Jersey then sent to their contracted US repair shop. I’d love to hear their answer.

I’m quite certain there are others on this thread that know exactly where their bags go for repair in the US.

I can tell you that Chanel knows that I’ve known for years where the bags go so they don’t bother trying to sell me on the Paris lie.

Without giving the name, as I still don’t know if they have an NDA, does anyone else want to confirm or dispute my information?

Edited for autocorrect mistake.

I can also confirm bags & shoes repair goes to local 3rd party in USA. In fact one of chanel SA gave me one of local cobbler they use. I went to check out the place; ended up talking to the owner. He was nice enough to take me to workshop room where he had tons of chanel bags that was pending for repair. He also had various crocodile skins; asked me if I wanted a custom made bag and he can do it for fraction of cost where these designer would sell. So yeah I don’t believe bags goes to Paris for repairs .

 

[Ghettoe]

COGS in the financials are made up of different lines in chanel from beauty to RTW, and the amount was being aggregated. if u note in my excel, you realised chanel has lesser COGS as compared to other luxury companies, which is already a red flag on how much they are profiting milking from consumers. nobody knows unless you're the management accountant that in charge of approving budgets, to know what's cogs for each item relative to their sales price

Now, I'm even more confused. Do LVMH, Hermes and Chanel all have the same inventory, segments, geographic locations, suppliers, etc? Also, If Chanel had put enough investment in the previous years perhaps through things like automation of certain segments, better contracts with suppliers, etc. That would make COGS high in certain years and then lower in others.

I haven't combed through their financials in detail, but I see that some of their capex spend last year went into opening up a leather goods manufacturing facility in France. At this point, you can also run with that and claim, Chanel is not milking customers and is absolutely re-investing into their brand.

Those are both hasty conclusions based on very slim information akin to if you told me you bought five pairs of shoes last year, and I concluded that you must be a shoe reseller.

 

[Bagatha Christie]

I would really love to play a game where three bags of competing designers are laid side by side with the emblems and any branding detail removed to see what would we would all pick in terms of quality. And then again lay those 3 bags side by side with the branding in place to see what happens.

When Karl was designing, I loved his work and creativity. Thats also what made the difference to me. With Virginie, Im not seeing anywhere near the creativity.

@bagsaremyjam, playing devils advocate here, what are the main differences you see? Im talking about other designers including TB who are priced in the 1k range. The ones who disclose materials used etc. Because some of these look pretty nice to me, but you can order on a website and obviously not as exclusive.

I would love to see this. Someone call Jeffrey Star and his hot knife!

There is so much info out there about luxury goods and why they are priced as they are. The psychology of it all is very interesting. So little is about quality. Its about the strength of the brand, the image they project and the image people want themselves to have. I have bought into quite a bit of it myself. But as I educate myself and look at some of the things out there now-actually most of it, its like fast fashion. Prices on past collections rising and falling quickly in about a 6 week time frame-I know because I tracked it. It is very seldom that an item retains its value after that.

I do not think most people would buy luxury goods for their quality if the brand name wasn't on it. If the bag or sweater was so well made and the design was great but it did not have a Hermes, Chanel etc name on it but it was one of those brands, it would not sell for half the price. These brands have gotten so rich because we are such good consumers and buy into it all.

I mean realistically we see this even with kids. One day they no longer want the blue dinosaur they want the blue Nike or adidas. We use brands to be a visual shorthand for our personality and values.

This is most obvious in brands like Telfar and Stella McCartney. If we just discount all their more complex designs and look at a plain branded oblong tote in black (which is probably among their best sellers) obviously they are faux leather bags- so it’s not the appeal of leather, obviously you can get a similar design anywhere- so it’s not originality, and obviously you can buy a vegan bag made ethically for way less money but that’s not the point, the point is it conveys both the individual’s relative wealth and their interest in supporting black business or animal rights and makes them part of a group the bushwick Birkin hipsters or the Sloane rangers. Same with Chanel it’s meant to be feminine, understated elegance etc etc.

I think you might be mistaken here. This is the original Chanel flap from 1955. The classic flap, as we know it, came along later, in the 80s I believe. Then the 2.55 was "reissued" and we had the choice of either the classic flap with the CC or the reissue (but with different chains than the original) and more demure turnlock.

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I find it so funny that Coco’s bag would probably be clocked as a dupe today

The 2.55 was (I know I’m going to likely lambasted for this but facts are facts) based off of the military bags that the SS soldiers carried. Keep in mind the herstory of Coco & the SS

Alas, we can’t argue those Nazis had some stylish uniforms.

Logo heavy RTW was solely introduced by Lagerfeld. According to Vogue he created the CC logo.

How Karl Lagerfeld Reinvented Chanel—and the Role of the Creative Director on Today’s ‘In Vogue: The 1990s’ Episode

In the 1990s the multitasking designer Karl Lagerfeld transformed the house of Chanel, the industry, and himself.

www.vogue.com

Everyday Things Karl Lagerfeld Has Put the Chanel Logo On

Beach balls, life preservers, flasks — the works.

www.thecut.com

Wider context of course is KL is doing this during the birth and inexorable rise of logo mania and streetwear.

It’s the heyday of dapper Dan and the matching LV logo suit, hat, bag and car.

I would say I’ve had over the years about 40-45 severely defective Chanel bags… so about 7%?

Which is what I did. Of course haha. But I wanted that one so badly! My SA didn’t tell me until after it was returned that Chanel had identified them all as defective. I guess they want to see who will keep them first. It was an odd sort of “wet”.

Whats disgraceful about this is they just sent it out - where is the quality control? it probably wasn’t tanned properly and they should have multiple points to notice those kinds of production errors- especially if it’s meant to be artisanal/hand finished production.

The refund policy sounds really bad too as a ‘VIP’ loyal client they should respect your reasoning especially when the flaws are obvious.

Ok so one thing that comes to mind when I read both of these comments is the Marc Jacobs Collection handbags back when it was considered a "Premier" designer here on TPF.... like 2006-2010ish. There was also his lower contemporary Marc by Marc Jacobs line that I am not referring to here. He was producing his MJ Collection while the creative director at LV (hence the similarities in some designs like the LV Alma vs. MJ Elise.. and the MJ Venetia has an LV twin that I can't recall). It wasn't until like 2013 that he left LV to focus on his own line, which ironically hasn't been as successful as his earlier Collection bags (IMO). Since then quality and design have gone downhill. I'd have to argue that the quality of his MJ Collection bags with the iconic pushlock pocket closures, 100% calfskin, and interior suede lining were made with waaaaay better quality than the 22 and 19 tote (disclaimer: I have not examined either IRL). I also don't recall frequent QC issues on MJ Collection bags the way we've seen throughout the Chanel forum. No, I do not consider the MJ Collection bags to be "luxe" but I think this is a pretty good example of higher quality contemporary brands vs. the current quality of some Chanel bags, yet at the same time these MJ classics have not retained their RV.

I read somewhere that diffusion lines are often catastrophic for brands as provided they are visually similar enough, hyped and branded enough like the high end people won’t buy the high end and I think this is what happened for MJ and Michael Kors.

I think a lot of this comes into play as well because a lot of people are buying these bags just to buy the bag for the name, status, etc. If you’re buying it for all the things above but you also love the design most would spend time looking at them in person or other brands for comparison and educating themselves. I think sometimes SA’s expect more from people purchasing and don’t have time to give a 30 minute overview, but I also think a 5 to 10 minute discussion on things to look for is necessary. I think if there’s a love for the brand many assume you’ve done your homework, but there’s so many who go in and buy a bag blindly because of perceived status.

I think one of the best points @TraceySH has made on this thread is that there’s lots of people who want to do their research before buying and ask questions about the supply chain like ‘is this pure lambskin? Where was it slaughtered? How was it dyed? Is it handsewn? We’re the workers paid a living wage? Etc’
The problem is this information is inconsistently available at best and I *personally* feel that a heritage, luxury brand should have this kind of info available on their website or helpline at least. As others have pointed out, lots of other brands at various price points have far more information on their website.

 

[PurseCloset]

Found this rather informative video on the baseline one should expect to look out for and perhaps tolerate what is acceptable in the QC of a branded bag.

Time 11.46 talks about Chanel's stance on repair work , what and what cannot be fixed.
The summary here is to inspect the bags properly before leaving the boutique with it, otherwise all the complication and complexities involved (made worse by the constant price increases) .

I certainly like the message Laura posed , " Do not be afraid to walk away without buying the bag just because it is a hard-to-come-by bag"

 

[ntntgo]

Hi Nat @ntntgo ! Not sure if you remember me from way back in the day since I didn’t post a whole lot but I remember you around the time I first joined in 2009! It’s so good to see you around again, I always love reading your helpful posts! I’m trying to PM you regarding the repair shop but TPF isn’t allowing me to PM you for some reason.. If PM doesn’t work on here would you mind if I added you on FB or IG to DM you for your advice?

Hey! It has been a very long time since I’ve been on TPF. It’s good to see you. I was able to DM you & of course you can send me a FB FR. I mostly stopped coming on TPF because so many of us OGs became friends in real life. Let’s catch up off line of this thread.

 

[ntntgo]

You are correct. If you are in the USA, bag gets sent to New Jersey. That's what my repair specialist told me when I sent in 3 or 4 of my bags. My classic flaps (brand new) already had hardware rusting and that rust would stain my bag and straps. Had to send them in for complete hardware replacement.

I now check the hardware before purchasing any more classic flaps.

I had my shoes repaired (I don't know where shoes get repaired), but they did a horrendous job. There are visible glue stains from the repair on my shoes that cannot be erased. I regret sending my shoes in and should have done the repair myself.

Shoes in the US go to a company called The Cobblers. They bought out my local shoe repair that was owned by a man who started out at MM7 in Paris. Since The Cobblers bought them, I have had more shoes damaged by them. But that’s who many of the department stores & brands have their shoe repair contract with

 

[papertiger]

In my opinion, as a new chanel consumer (because i only started my mini chanel bags collection a few years ago, didn't own any vintage pieces, not a vip client as well), after doing research and reading up on the financial statements uploaded by chanel limited, there are a few takeaways:

1. General consumers may think that the entire chanel brand is only by chanel limited (at least this is what i am thinking until today I did research on it). The fact that Litor Ltd is staying away from the limelight is already a big red flag as we do not have any idea whether the company is solely owned by Wertheimer family or mix of people. In addition, Litor Ltd does not have any official information eg. types of business activities surfaced on capitalIQ as well. As a consumer, i feel abit "cheated"/ doubtful because the money spent on chanel items might not be greatly reinvested to improve the quality of the products or even raise production line (pretty sure they have sufficient funds to do so). If chanel really reinvested to improve the quality of the products, there will be lesser people complaining on social media platforms!! from time to time i saw users posting their chanel issues on chinese social media app...

2. They are not transparent with the consumers with their financial statements because, on the chanel website, they only uploaded key highlights which are not really useful as compared to a full annual report. As a consumer, what kind of subsidiaries, joint ventures etc they are having as well because technically it helps to reduce production costs, and when Chanel said they increase prices for price harmonisation is really bs...........

3. They preach a lot on sustainability but they are churning out so many "fast-fashion paced" products... does it even make sense? I am not surprised if they are going to have 12 collections in a year in the near future!!

Some companies may not be as "transparent" as other major lux companies because they are a) Private and not Public. That's why we can read full (actually 'full') breakdowns of PLCs in their annual reports and b) Chanel dodges filing reports it should do by paying a fine (calculated within their financial strategy).

This probably has to do with not wanting their competitors to analyse and evaluate their past and future strategy rather than burying money (as we know many companies, private and public) pay tax in different countries including off-shore and in other tax-havens to max their advantage e.g. Gucci pays tax in Switzerland through a subsidiary and pays minimum Italian tax SwissInfo). What tech giants get up to is on another level.

Please don't think Chanel is a more (or less) sculdugerous than any of the other large companies.

 

[papertiger]

I think we are going to start seeing new materials that aren't what we are used to, in the name of sustainability.

We already are (universally, and not just Chanel).

Do we really think Chanel exotics would have been discontinued had they been as/more profitable as reg leather/other materials?

 

[rainbowneko]

Some companies may not be as "transparent" as other major lux companies because they are a) Private and not Public. That's why we can read full (actually 'full') breakdowns of PLCs in their annual reports and b) Chanel dodges filing reports it should do by paying a fine (calculated within their financial strategy).

This probably has to do with not wanting their competitors to analyse and evaluate their past and future strategy rather than burying money (as we know many companies, private and public) pay tax in different countries including off-shore and in other tax-havens to max their advantage e.g. Gucci pays tax in Switzerland through a subsidiary and pays minimum Italian tax SwissInfo). What tech giants get up to is on another level.

Please don't think Chanel is a more (or less) sculdugerous than any of the other large companies.

But as a consumer I didn’t expect chanel, being a private company, they have so many subsidiaries… the amount of the subsidiaries they have are comparable to other listed companies. Doesn’t feel good to know it’s being owned by a “mysterious” ultimate parent company.

Like what you have mentioned, being a private company has its benefits and in this case, they really played it well!

 

[rainbowneko]

Now, I'm even more confused. Do LVMH, Hermes and Chanel all have the same inventory, segments, geographic locations, suppliers, etc? Also, If Chanel had put enough investment in the previous years perhaps through things like automation of certain segments, better contracts with suppliers, etc. That would make COGS high in certain years and then lower in others.

I haven't combed through their financials in detail, but I see that some of their capex spend last year went into opening up a leather goods manufacturing facility in France. At this point, you can also run with that and claim, Chanel is not milking customers and is absolutely re-investing into their brand.

Those are both hasty conclusions based on very slim information akin to if you told me you bought five pairs of shoes last year, and I concluded that you must be a shoe reseller.

There’s no company in this world that are equally the same. Only comparable companies.

If Chanel really reinvesting in the business, why do people keep raising quality issues even in RTW. Leather goods manufacturing facility means nothing, how can the company ensures that they’re using French-raised calfskin to make classic flap hahahaha. Anyways leather goods manufacturing facility = assembly point. Additional manufacturing facility shows that demands for Chanel’s classics and RTW are booming. Not necessarily improving control.

I wondered how many people think that their classic flaps or even seasonal/ RTW are made in France/ Italy/ Spain from scratch. Probably the component parts and their leathers or materials are being sourced from other countries (why would they want to use French-raised calfskin or sheepskin or handwoven tweed?)

We shall see next year’s annual report result!

 

[gail13]

Do we really think Chanel exotics would have been discontinued had they been as/more profitable as reg leather/other materials?

Not at all. I also think there is a reason caviar mini's were discontinued and why we see so few small bags in caviar.