Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

[ntntgo]

Yes that’s you! You are Beautiful! I sent a request to follow you if it’s ok with you (IG Jasmin).

Hi. I accepted. I think you’ll be disappointed as I rarely post pictures of my bags, shoes or jewelry on social media. I was robbed a few years ago and I was told by a family member who is a sheriff in Nashville that posting my items on social media is a sure way to invite theft. Even with as a sophisticated security system as we have and the additional one on my closet. But, you’ll see some. Mostly, you’ll see my dogs, and friends and occasionally complete outfits.
My FB has an album of my mom’s modeling pictures though. On FB I can control who sees what pictures. You’re welcome to send me a FR there if you’d like.
I look forward to interacting with you as I am certain that you have beautiful collection pictures.
ET for autocorrect fix.

 

[ntntgo]

And you are very classy for doing so. Thank you for being helpful and respectful just like @TraceySH, @gail13 and @880 have been. Best to just not engage and acknowledge. Not worth our time.

Thank you for your kind comment. I try not to engage with people like her as that’s not how I’ve ever addressed people on TPF. However, in this case I was clarifying for others, not attacking her. I’m unclear why she thought that, as it seems no one else did.

 

[880]

My completely uneducated, uninformed guestimate ball park would be that Chanel's sales is composed of:

60% handbags
20% fashion (ready-to-wear and shoes)
14% SLGs + costume jewellery
5% watches & fine jewellery
1% high jewellery

Of course this excludes CHANEL Beauty, about which I know nothing.

I wish someone with an insiders background in the corporate growth and branding of premier fashion houses (as opposed to luxury ) could chime in I was scrooging around on line and making up key word searches to see if there was, for example, an HBS case study pie chart somewhere lol.

i did come up with the factoid that the chanel global CEO worldwide is now a unilever executive. The blurb emphasized that the ceo did not have a fashion background but rather product. And different fashion houses have different emphasis on business models (why some reserve in store experience for high paying individuals, and therefore don’t sell RTW on e-commerce, whereas others have diffusion or bridge lines that might sell t shirts on ecommerce.

also chanel recently purchased a leather manufacturing in France

ETA: I assume it’s safe to post objects here on TPF (in terms of risk assessment for IRL theft,
if you are not otherwise on social media. And disable geo locator, IDK

BTW, re chanel items that are overly distressed to the point of unreasonable wear on a New retail piece. When I grumbled to my very experienced SA in 2003 about the excessive distressing on the sleeves of my brand new croc printed fabric jacket, I specifically complained about the fact that the material might develop holes in the course of normal wear. It’s the on,y time I can recall asking if there was another item to compare it to. She said they were all like that. She said this was brought up in the manufacture, and KL specifically said that this was not an issue for him; he actually said his clients, the very wealthy, who may only wear an item once, would not care. So, i can easily see him stating the same about a bag. Given this attitude, I am not certain he would care if a bag peeled after a few months or weeks of wear.

 

[nsughtnsugahyde]

I do know that she loved Schiaperelli but there was a lot of competitiveness but are you asking if she set Elsa, the person on fire or her Altelier?

Are we talking gross revenue or quantity of sales?

I do know that she loved Schiaperelli but there was a lot of competitiveness but are you asking if she set Elsa, the person on fire or her Altelier?

I’m not sure. I just remember reading something about that a long time ago.

I had to edit this because I’m new and I’m still a little confused as to how to reply to one comment when they’re grouped. Sorry guys.

 

[papertiger]

You are 100% correct and thank you for sharing your beautiful pieces. The clothes were so much better quality back then.
Also, and I know that you know this so this is for others, Chanel only used alligator and called it crocodile until they were questioned.
I bought a beautiful grey “crocodile” jumbo some years ago at a hefty price, only to find out that it was alligator. I kept it for a bit then sold it. It was beautiful and my Camillia advisor did answer me truthfully when I questioned whether it was actually crocodile but if I’m paying for crocodile, I want actual crocodile as is on my Birkins.

This happens a lot as @Christofle and I speculated on another thread. I have Chanel python jackets (before their decision to not make any more exotics) but have had other brands 'Crocodylidae' As required by CITES the exact species and family is required on the paperwork. I'm sure one my croc Guccis in in fact alligator, I can see on their website some of the 'python' looks suspiciously like cobra and so forth. I don't mind croc or alligator, nor python or cobra, just like to a) have the paperwork correct and not be paying for one when I'm receiving another.

Embossed croc - from any company, Chanel included, is another indicator of a slump in expectations and exclusivity. Those against exotics wouldn't be buying one anyway, and as we know everything is governed by commercial decisions in business not ethics.

@gail13 Regarding 22s, Michelle Wang does a vid where she shows her bag is not peeling or defective. She also thought it only affected the metallic until she other YT vids posted by owners of solid colours. My eyes must be tired because apart from the added wrinkles on Romina's (obviously the beautiful metallic) I can't see cracks. Not saying they're not there but maybe don't come across on camera. The finishing on metallic leather is always tricky, like metallic eyeshadow on less than perfect eyelids, it will show every possible defect (or perceived defect) a lot more easily. Actual cracking or peeling is another issue as OP's 19 Tote shows.

 

[papertiger]

My completely uneducated, uninformed guestimate ball park would be that Chanel's sales is composed of:

60% handbags
20% fashion (ready-to-wear and shoes)
14% SLGs + costume jewellery
5% watches & fine jewellery
1% high jewellery

Of course this excludes CHANEL Beauty, about which I know nothing.

Guess is all we can do regards Chanel, they even prefer to pay fines every year rather than file financial or other data.

I don't know whether you mean units sold, space allotted to, net or gross profit with your guesstimates . It's another topic, but Chanel is far more reliant on its beauty as profitable affordable luxury rather than accessories, bags included. They make a very large profit on couture, never mind RTW, one of the only Maisons to do so. Couture is a whole other story.

The Wertheimers who own Chanel came to Paris from Alsace 1870 at the time of Franco-Prussian war (Alsace used to be a part of Germany, Prussia won and Germany was formed in 1871). They owned Bourjois, who then helped develop Chanel's fragrances and later makeup. When Chanel died in 1971, they bought her (then quite tired looking - I have a bag from then) business and have been owning/running it ever since. Recently Coty (US) bought Bourjois from Chanel in 2014 (I think the date's correct) as well as financial, Chanel now own 4.2% stake in Coty as part of the deal whilst allowing Chanel to concentrate on luxury. Chanel Beauty, fragrances and skincare probably (guessing too) accounts for more than 50% of all profits as it's not only sold in more places, to many, many more people, higher in stock turnover, but the mark-ups are way more than on any bag.

 

[880]

Embossed croc - from any company, Chanel included, is another indicator of a slump in expectations and exclusivity. Those against exotics wouldn't be buying one anyway, and as we know everything is governed by commercial decisions in business not ethics.

So, chanel makes its bags in Italy in factories that employ unskilled, poorly compensated Chinese workers who labor in an assembly line of machines.

It uses pressed or embossed leather in some bags. In others, like metallics or special finishes, its treated leather has not lasted weeks? of wear without peeling, discoloring, or other issue.

My excuse for buying RTW sweaters these days is they come from a well known French brand that also puts out its own line. The sweaters I buy I extend to wear for decades. Thats why I pulled up an old thread from 2009 re the price rationalization of buying a bag or costume accessory versus RTW. In 2009, many contributors felt that a chanel bag would outlast a garment.

Price Rationalization, bags vs costume jewelry vs RTW

I think the modern Chanel costume jewelry is a rip off for the price you pay. Rhinestones and beads are glued on and fall off. The ends of tassles are finished in an amateur fashion with findings that can be bought at a bead store. I know I have examined them and will never buy them. However I...

forum.purseblog.com

 

[Love Of My Life]

Under the umbrella of Chanel Maisons d'Art are these special ateliers which some of you may or
may not know & exactly what they contribute to Chanel

Les Atelieres Lognon (pleats)
Atelier Montex (embroidery)
Maison Massaro ( custom shoes)
Goosens (jewelry)
LaMarie(feathers, camelias)
Maison Michel(hats & millinery)
Maison Desrues (buttons)

While I think it's important that any & all information should be shared openly, respectfully & factually
many of us have learned much more than we probably expected about Chanel handbags & I do
think that you have the client who does her research before making her purchase & then the client
who will walk into a boutique or department store & just buy what she likes, JMO
I don't think Chanel will ever be as transparent as many of us would like unfortunately

 

[gail13]

Oops this was not supposed to be quoted sorry!

@gail13 Regarding 22s, Michelle Wang does a vid where she shows her bag is not peeling or defective. She also thought it only affected the metallic until she other YT vids posted by owners of solid colours. My eyes must be tired because apart from the added wrinkles on Romina's (obviously the beautiful metallic) I can't see cracks. Not saying they're not there but maybe don't come across on camera. The finishing on metallic leather is always tricky, like metallic eyeshadow on less than perfect eyelids, it will show every possible defect (or perceived defect) a lot more easily. Actual cracking or peeling is another issue as OP's 19 Tote shows.

I love the reference to metallic eyeshadow, its such a perfect analogy and I cant unsee it now lol.

I saw the Michelle Wang video about the same time Romina and Super Dacob came out with their video's. The only reason I mention it is because I think the 22 and the 19 tote use a similar finish and product. SD had this same peeling on his pink 22 non metallic bag. Romina did a video prior to this showing the same type of peeling at the inside edges on her 22, where the casing /chains meet. She bought it in and was told by Chanel to use the bag and not worry about it. Then this week apparently she notices other cracking and she can see below the color.

Wondering if this is a reason that Hermes who is truly a leather house, does not use metallic finishes for their bags?

 

[ntntgo]

Guess is all we can do regards Chanel, they even prefer to pay fines every year rather than file financial or other data.

I don't know whether you mean units sold, space allotted to, net or gross profit with your guesstimates . It's another topic, but Chanel is far more reliant on its beauty as profitable affordable luxury rather than accessories, bags included. They make a very large profit on couture, never mind RTW, one of the only Maisons to do so. Couture is a whole other story.

The Wertheimers who own Chanel came to Paris from Alsace 1870 at the time of Franco-Prussian war (Alsace used to be a part of Germany, Prussia won and Germany was formed in 1871). They owned Bourjois, who then helped develop Chanel's fragrances and later makeup. When Chanel died in 1971, they bought her (then quite tired looking - I have a bag from then) business and have been owning/running it ever since. Recently Coty (US) bought Bourjois from Chanel in 2014 (I think the date's correct) as well as financial, Chanel now own 4.2% stake in Coty as part of the deal whilst allowing Chanel to concentrate on luxury. Chanel Beauty, fragrances and skincare probably (guessing too) accounts for more than 50% of all profits as it's not only sold in more places, to many, many more people, higher in stock turnover, but the mark-ups are way more than on any bag.

I’m not sure this is entirely correct. The Pierre Wertheimer initially invested in the perfume business only. Then after Coco was forced out of France and wanted to return to her couturier and leather business, she negotiated the lawsuit she had brought against him pre-WW2 because she needed money. That’s when they got I think 80%ish of the whole company.
The Wertheimers are VCs and they have Chanel, along with all of their other companies under Mousse Partners. They are moving more toward healthcare & biotech. But they are invested or own 61 companies. Chanel being only one of those.
I do find it interesting that the CEO that you reference came from Unilever as @880 stated. That’s something I was unaware of. Unilever is of my direct report’s accounts. So that is very worth exploring.
Thanks a lot, now I’m down the rabbit hole on this and it’s totally OT. Sorry OP.

 

[ntntgo]

I love the reference to metallic eyeshadow, its such a perfect analogy and I cant unsee it now lol.

I saw the Michelle Wang video about the same time Romina and Super Dacob came out with their video's. The only reason I mention it is because I think the 22 and the 19 tote use a similar finish and product. SD had this same peeling on his pink 22 non metallic bag. Romina did a video prior to this showing the same type of peeling at the inside edges on her 22, where the casing /chains meet. She bought it in and was told by Chanel to use the bag and not worry about it. Then this week apparently she notices other cracking and she can see below the color.

Wondering if this is a reason that Hermes who is truly a leather house, does not use metallic finishes for their bags?

Laughing at the “metallic eyeshadow” comment. Now I have to go rewatch it.

 

[880]

I love the reference to metallic eyeshadow, its such a perfect analogy and I cant unsee it now lol.

I saw the Michelle Wang video about the same time Romina and Super Dacob came out with their video's. The only reason I mention it is because I think the 22 and the 19 tote use a similar finish and product. SD had this same peeling on his pink 22 non metallic bag. Romina did a video prior to this showing the same type of peeling at the inside edges on her 22, where the casing /chains meet. She bought it in and was told by Chanel to use the bag and not worry about it. Then this week apparently she notices other cracking and she can see below the color.

Wondering if this is a reason that Hermes who is truly a leather house, does not use metallic finishes for their bags?

Hermes did use metallic finish. I have a silver chèvre clutch bought from a reseller in Japan. It was reconditioned to almost new by @docride. It’s sturdy. I’ve been thinking about a metallic orange plume on my watch list for years. I have not purchased bc I would so much rather have gunmetal gray or even champagne. . . Not sure what they were thinking. there is also a bronze TPM Evelyn thats been hanging around resale. . .

ETA: I buy metallics. They’ve all lasted, even the striped metallic blue chanel one. idkw
bottega makes phenomenal metallics too

 

[gail13]

Under the umbrella of Chanel Maisons d'Art are these special ateliers which some of you may or
may not know & exactly what they contribute to Chanel

Les Atelieres Lognon (pleats)
Atelier Montex (embroidery)
Maison Massaro ( custom shoes)
Goosens (jewelry)
LaMarie(feathers, camelias)
Maison Michel(hats & millinery)
Maison Desrues (buttons)

While I think it's important that any & all information should be shared openly, respectfully & factually
many of us have learned much more than we probably expected about Chanel handbags & I do
think that you have the client who does her research before making her purchase & then the client
who will walk into a boutique or department store & just buy what she likes, JMO
I don't think Chanel will ever be as transparent as many of us would like unfortunately

This is what Chanel refers to as Paraffection and they all collaborate with Chanel. There is info out there about relationships with other small manufacturers throughout Italy and Spain. There are mentions of leather tanneries Chanel has acquired but to me what is noticeably absent is the discussion about the quality of leathers and processes used on their products.

 

[ntntgo]

Under the umbrella of Chanel Maisons d'Art are these special ateliers which some of you may or
may not know & exactly what they contribute to Chanel

Les Atelieres Lognon (pleats)
Atelier Montex (embroidery)
Maison Massaro ( custom shoes)
Goosens (jewelry)
LaMarie(feathers, camelias)
Maison Michel(hats & millinery)
Maison Desrues (buttons)

While I think it's important that any & all information should be shared openly, respectfully & factually
many of us have learned much more than we probably expected about Chanel handbags & I do
think that you have the client who does her research before making her purchase & then the client
who will walk into a boutique or department store & just buy what she likes, JMO
I don't think Chanel will ever be as transparent as many of us would like unfortunately

LaMarie ended their partnership with Chanel. They are the ones who made the Camellia flowers and all of the feathers for both haute & pret. My understanding is the period where boxes were being sent out with the hard, almost plastic flowers was because Chanel had to find someone else to make the flowers or maybe they started making them in their Chinese factory themselves. IDK.

 

[gail13]

Hermes did use metallic finish. I have a silver chèvre clutch bought from a reseller in Japan. It was reconditioned to almost new by @docride. It’s sturdy. I’ve been thinking about a metallic orange plume on my watch list for years.

I stand corrected! I have not seen metallic from Hermes and assumed its because its hard to do.