Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

[ntntgo]

Thank you for your information that you provided to this thread. My questions was answered by your post. So heavy logo rtw was this under Karl Lagerfeld also? And was this done to attract a younger client base? I'm just noticing this trend with Chanel within the last couple of years and I do not recall this trend maybe ten to fifteen years ago.

Karl moved it from haute couture to RTW pretty close to his first collection after Coco died. I’m not exactly sure of the year. However, it has gotten 1000 times worse since Virginie took over.
Unfortunately, Virginie doesn‘t have a lot of creative ideas without Karl as her leader so she falls back on the logo. Not that Karl didn’t have his moments of over using the logo as the Wertheimers started preparing the brand to be sold to one of the conglomerates. It just so happened that a pandemic came around and Chanel had its most profitable years. Hence their withdrawing $1.3 billion out of the company recently. It is still very likely that the company will be sold as they are the one house that chose not to participate in the co-creation of the supply chain software. That tells me that they are looking to look as profitable as possible.
The Wertheimers are not a fashion family, they are venture capitalists which is how Pierre got into business with Coco to begin with. Had she not needed the money beyond the Chanel Perfume Company Ltd after she had been exiled to Switzerland and wanted to go back to France to relaunch the clothing line, she wouldn’t have gone back into business with them.
Doesn‘t anyone here notice that Virginie’s bags are mostly, if not all, poor redesigns of Karl’s bags? I’m focusing on bags because I realized that I went too far off topic of bags, which is what OP’s original post was.
The 22 is a terrible redesign using garbage material of the original BonBon (trying to stay on topic).
Coco, regardless of her SS association, tried to keep the house elevated, hence only using the logo on haute couture and the interior flap of the 2.55.
Now, as they try to re-elevate the brand, as VCs do, they raise the price without spending the $ for the quality to be on par in hopes to continue to increase profits. As long as people buy the product, yep I said “product” as they continue to raise prices as they cut costs, they’ll hold on to the company. As soon as they can dump it without it hurting their other profitable VC investments, they’ll be back to entertaining negotiations with the LVMHs, Richemonts or Kerings. Richemont was the closest before COVID hit but they moved on to other brands like Delvaux, which they purchased in 2021 or early 2022 I believe.
I hope that answers your question. I’m happy to try to answer anyone’s questions or engage in any discussions as long as they are mutually respectful.

 

[ntntgo]

Logo heavy RTW was solely introduced by Lagerfeld. According to Vogue he created the CC logo.

How Karl Lagerfeld Reinvented Chanel—and the Role of the Creative Director on Today’s ‘In Vogue: The 1990s’ Episode

In the 1990s the multitasking designer Karl Lagerfeld transformed the house of Chanel, the industry, and himself.

www.vogue.com

Everyday Things Karl Lagerfeld Has Put the Chanel Logo On

Beach balls, life preservers, flasks — the works.

www.thecut.com

Hi. I respectfully disagree. The CC logo was a Coco design. Karl was the first to move it from haute couture to pret-a-porter & leather.

 

[Deneuveness]

Yeah... I definitely think Coco would have hated Karl.

 

[ntntgo]

I’m really curious how many of the haters comparing a $300 bag to a Chanel actually own a Chanel bag. Or (insert another luxury brand that’s been discussed).

It’s one thing to hear constructive thoughts, strong opinions, opposing narratives, and insightful knowledge. It’s another thing to listen to people talking sh*t who sound like they don’t own any of these items being discussed. Or have the least bit of knowledge with these brands. It’s glaringly obvious in some cases.

Hi. Can you define what your definition of haters is please? I think it’s important to respect everyone’s opinion, regardless whether we agree with it or not. What is not disputable is facts. They are only correctable if someone makes an incorrect statement.
I am asking because I don’t know if you see me or other people on here with differing opinions as haters.
Thanks in advance for clarifying.

 

[ntntgo]

Yeah... I definitely think Coco would have hated Karl.

I respectfully disagree. She loved him. She would have hated the lowering of status with the logo becoming exponentially available To the masses.

 

[gail13]

I respectfully disagree. She loved him. She would have hated the lowering of status with the logo becoming exponentially available To the masses.

I thought the 22 bag would have been so much nicer without the gold letters which IMO cheapen the look. The Bon Bon had beautiful understated logo stitching. I don't think Karl would have used those letters either.

 

[waterlily112]

I thought the 22 bag would have been so much nicer without the gold letters which IMO cheapen the look.

Can't agreed more. I don't hate the cinch style but it was the shiny leather that gives off the garbage bag vibe and the glued on letters that make me say hard pass. hahaha...Had they use the stitch on puffy CC logo like the GST would've been way better imo.

 

[ntntgo]

Can't agreed more. I don't hate the cinch style but it was the shiny leather that gives off the garbage bag vibe and the glued on letters that make me say hard pass. hahaha...Had they use the stitch on puffy CC logo like the GST would've been way better imo.

Oh do I miss the GST. I have one regular size left in the rare elephant grey color and I have the maxi in black that used to be my laptop bag. They both need a spa treatment though.
I have the original black & burgundy Bon Bon and you can tell how good the quality is because the patent is still in great shape. The black is cinched and the burgundy isn’t. That’s why they look different.
Edited to include pics. Please excuse my messy office. It’s my packing to travel room.

 

[bagsaremyjam]

I am fortunate to own multiple Chanel bags, and then some LV, Prada, Dior, Bottega, Fendi. But let's not kid ourselves that we would lose our minds over these bags if the brand name was not attached to them.

I understand what you’re saying. But it’s also delusional to compare it to a fast fashion bag. That’s a fact.

 

[880]

Totally OT, I’ve been looking for glasses that shape. Most I’ve found are either Dita or Saint Laurent. Do you mind me asking who makes those? They’re fabulous.

Thanks so much. I have bought all of my prescription glasses and sunglasses from Morganthal Frederic’s, I think since the 1990s. These are horn, but I also have them in plastic. It’s my personal opinion opinion that the best fitter and judge of shape and size is a particular individual in one of the locations. If you have what is termed as an Asian bridge, there are models that suit, and also you are able to request customised fit. The website only has a fraction of the frame they carry, and they also have exclusives from Germany (formerly a company called Golden Wood), France, and elsewhere. as a side note, valextra makes a universal sunglass case (exposed temples) that fit over sized glasses. Pls feel free to pm for more info if you need any. During Covid SIP, they continued to fit clients via zoom, and they are amazing.

Morgenthal Frederics

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Smokey Blue Leather Glasses Case | Valextra

Discover the elegant design of the Smokey Blue Leather Glasses Case by Valextra. Shop for accessories ideal for day and evening outfits on the official website.

www.valextra.com

 

[ntntgo]

I understand what you’re saying. But it’s also delusional to compare it to a fast fashion bag. That’s a fact.

The person you replied to is fairly new to TPF according to her profile. I think it’s not only disrespectful but since you’ve already stated multiple times that you work in fashion, which means you’re not a mental healthcare professional, you neither have the education to diagnose someone as “delusional” but, it’s just plain mean.
Please rephrase and repost in a more respectful way to get your point across.

 

[bagsaremyjam]

Some of the haters I’m referring to are the ones who are quick to make the reference of a designer brand to fast fashion and $200-$300 bags, who do not speak of specifics about their ownership of said designer items. No matter how many TPF’ers have issues with Chanel or other designer brands, I think most who own enough wouldn’t flippantly call their items pieces of sh*t and say it’s comparable to fast fashion. Many of those flippantly throwing around those terms speak volumes on their lack of experience.

 

[bagsaremyjam]

The person you replied to is fairly new to TPF according to her profile. I think it’s not only disrespectful but since you’ve already stated multiple times that you work in fashion, which means you’re not a mental healthcare professional, you neither have the education to diagnose someone as “delusional” but, it’s just plain mean.
Please rephrase and repost in a more respectful way to get your point across.

I never referred to this person and her personality as delusional. I referred to her statement comparing fast fashion as being comparative to designer brands as being delusional. There’s a huge difference. I think you referring to mental health and me being mean is taking this way out of context.

 

[TraceySH]

I never referred to this person and her personality as delusional. I referred to her statement comparing fast fashion as being comparative to designer brands as being delusional. There’s a huge difference. I think you referring to mental health and me being mean is taking this way out of context.

Ok to clarify here I didn’t see anyone comparing Chanel to fast fashion, I saw a comparison to contemporary designers, many of whose leather accessories are more expensive than luxury brands like mulberry, Burberry, Chloe, Tod’s etc. There’s definitely some price overlap these days.

 

[bagsaremyjam]

Ok to clarify here I didn’t see anyone comparing Chanel to fast fashion, I saw a comparison to contemporary designers, many of whose leather accessories are more expensive than luxury brands like mulberry, Burberry, Chloe, Tod’s etc. There’s definitely some price overlap these days.

There’s definitely people who are comparing Chanel to fast fashion and bags priced at a few hundred dollars. You have to go back and reread through it. It can get lost with the amount of responses.