100% agree, Companies are pretty creative now days. It’s a global market to find the lowest cost for labor and parts, so companies can make the highest possible profit margin.
Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)
- Thread starter TraceySH
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In the end then, if everything does require machines to make and the human touch is adding the chains, maybe the turnlock, what is distinguishing luxury bags from the others such as Michael Kors, Tory Burch, wouldn't it all be the same? Those bags all have limited runs on collections, colors and leathers. IMO hand crafted is what Im looking for, something with a noticeable quality difference. This whole thing about quality, leathers, hand crafting-the absence of which is why the counterfeits are getting to hard to spot. There is no difference in the making of these things.
The RTW aspect I can see utilizing more hand done work on some but not all pieces.
The RTW aspect I can see utilizing more hand done work on some but not all pieces.
Ahh, machine stitched by human hands is machine made to me
imo only, artisanal hand made is stitched entirely by hand with tools, aka my duret bag
ETA: by one extremely skilled artisan (whom I had the pleasure of meeting)
this particular artisan trained H craftspeople for many years.
i do have a number of Birkins and kellys , which are hand stitched, but they are not as finely stitched.
by my definition, most of Hermes bags and all of chanel is machine made.
to me, chanel bags differ bc different factories, different settings, different years, different hides.
@gail13, I agree with your point. IMO, other than the bag quality, the difference between Tory Burch and chanel is the strength of the premier brand; the quality of the design; and the retention of value in resale.
my one Duret bag, as perfect as it is, will not retain value. it’s a work of art, whose design is specific to Duret.
ETA: there is a fact bandied about on line that a 2.55 bag is made by 6-15 people over 15-18 hours. IMO that conjures up a factory assembly line, with nary a hand stitch in sight. I still like my so black mini chevron reissue and other chanel bags very much. They’re great fashion pieces
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I tried some smaller pieces in caviar (SLG / small bags) and was shocked by 1) how thin the leather felt and 2) how plastic-y the handfeel was
FWIW I think the 15M leather goods per year number is likely inflated. Even if you assume revenue from each of those is on average $3k (I think it's likely more), that's $45B in annual revenue from leather goods alone. (I realize # produced is not necessarily the same as # sold, but there are public references for # sold, so I'm making a simplifying assumption to ballpark it.)
For reference, LVMH made $76B (converted to USD) in revenue last year and ~half of that was from the "fashion and leather goods" subsidiaries. If the Chanel number above was correct, Chanel would be making ~20% more from leather goods sales than LV, Dior, Fendi, Celine, Loewe combined. I haven't done a ton of research into this beyond the quick google search, but I'd be surprised if Chanel really was making 15M leather goods per year (unless half of them are being held in a hidden stock room somewhere!).
Regardless, I agree that Chanel's QA has been horrendous and that they let too many defective pieces onto the showroom floor. Also seems like they've started to use lower quality leather (IMO the pearl crush minis is where it really became apparent), regardless of how it's stitched together.
For reference, LVMH made $76B (converted to USD) in revenue last year and ~half of that was from the "fashion and leather goods" subsidiaries. If the Chanel number above was correct, Chanel would be making ~20% more from leather goods sales than LV, Dior, Fendi, Celine, Loewe combined. I haven't done a ton of research into this beyond the quick google search, but I'd be surprised if Chanel really was making 15M leather goods per year (unless half of them are being held in a hidden stock room somewhere!).
Regardless, I agree that Chanel's QA has been horrendous and that they let too many defective pieces onto the showroom floor. Also seems like they've started to use lower quality leather (IMO the pearl crush minis is where it really became apparent), regardless of how it's stitched together.
Your Duret bag is just amazing btw.Ahh, machine stitched by human hands is machine made to me
imo only, artisanal hand made is stitched entirely by hand with tools, aka my duret bag
ETA: by one extremely skilled artisan (whom I had the pleasure of meeting)
this particular artisan trained H craftspeople for many years.
i do have a number of Birkins and kellys , which are hand stitched, but they are not as finely stitched.
by my definition, most of Hermes bags and all of chanel is machine made.
to me, chanel bags differ bc different factories, different settings, different years, different hides.
@gail13, I agree with your point. IMO, other than the bag quality, the difference between Tory Burch and chanel is the strength of the premier brand; the quality of the design; and the retention of value in resale.
my one Duret bag, as perfect as it is, will not retain value. it’s a work of art, whose design is specific to Duret.
ETA: there is a fact bandied about on line that a 2.55 bag is made by 6-15 people over 15-18 hours. IMO that conjures up a factory assembly line, with nary a hand stitch in sight. I still like my so black mini chevron reissue and other chanel bags very much. They’re great fashion pieces
Thank you so much @TraceySH. It’s the finest crafted item I expect I will ever own
perhaps a very imperfect analogy is a top of the line Mercedes versus that famous Swedish sportscar brand beginning with a K (yes, the latter is machined, but it seems to be far more carefully put together, IDK ).
There is a continuum of sorts that’s fuzzy even in my head between 100% machined; partial; and fully hand made.
I mean I believe the templates for the flaps had to have been cut by some kind of machine Lol.
ETA: @TraceySH , re the Duret bag, by work of art, I also mean the bag is also really his vision, not yours lol. So you have to buy into all of that before starting down that path. @Tasha1 has her own experience
in the eponymous thread Duret.
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I think you bring up an important point, to expand a little. I think most people wouldn't be happy with all handmade bags with saddle stitch and no machines involved based on the feedback here on the forum. I also have a few items from an independent artisan and from hermes and there will be irregularities with this kind of stitching and craftsmanship, even if it's at very high standards of craftsmanship ( see examples attached - some of these items need spa to be honest). These are extreme close ups of particular areas that require reinforcement or more complicated areas, so it looks less irregular in real life. The non hermes items are also manually cut leather pieces and not lazer cut, perhaps hermes item too, but not sure.Ahh, machine stitched by human hands is machine made to me
imo only, artisanal hand made is stitched entirely by hand with tools, aka my duret bag
ETA: by one extremely skilled artisan (whom I had the pleasure of meeting)
this particular artisan trained H craftspeople for many years.
i do have a number of Birkins and kellys , which are hand stitched, but they are not as finely stitched.
by my definition, most of Hermes bags and all of chanel is machine made.
to me, chanel bags differ bc different factories, different settings, different years, different hides.
@gail13, I agree with your point. IMO, other than the bag quality, the difference between Tory Burch and chanel is the strength of the premier brand; the quality of the design; and the retention of value in resale.
my one Duret bag, as perfect as it is, will not retain value. it’s a work of art, whose design is specific to Duret.
ETA: there is a fact bandied about on line that a 2.55 bag is made by 6-15 people over 15-18 hours. IMO that conjures up a factory assembly line, with nary a hand stitch in sight. I still like my so black mini chevron reissue and other chanel bags very much. They’re great fashion pieces
I would consider this a completely different product compared to what most of the luxury brands are offering. There are also no plastic stabilizer in them unless it's required for let's say the bottom of a big bag. Even smaller chanel lv and dior pieces have them, which is great for structure and weight, but also great for being able to use less sturdy and thinner leather pieces.
I'm not sure if hand made products are always better or more durable, I'd rather have machine with hand finishing in more durable materials than a poorly made saddle stitch. There are pros and cons.
But machine stitching should be even and i have peices from LV where someone seems to have fallen asleep on the machine , which isn't ok for LV or chanel even if it's subtle in my opinion.
100%
actually, perhaps my quibble is made by 6-15 individuals taking 18 hours, conjures up an image of a sweatshop with a pile of 2.55 bags each waiting to be taken to the next step by indifferent or minimum wage individuals. I’m kind of envisioning the episode of I love Lucy where she and Ethel are taking part in an assembly line making chocolate candies. . . The very opposite of skilled careful craft.
it’s not entirely the machine stitching aspect ( with a nod to the point made by @bagsaremyjam ) . . . upon further reflection, perhaps I would say that a bag machine stitched by a single skilled artisan is somewhat handmade? Just as couture might have a hand cut pattern, but a variety of machine work? IDK I’m not being very articulate here apologies.
Big brands other than Hermes can of course do this. Tomas Maiar’s cabat is the example that springs to my mind. But BV mass produces other bags to make the profits.
the 19 tote, of course would take even less time.
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I do not doubt the quality of the Duret bag you speak of.Ahh, machine stitched by human hands is machine made to me
imo only, artisanal hand made is stitched entirely by hand with tools, aka my duret bag
ETA: by one extremely skilled artisan (whom I had the pleasure of meeting)
this particular artisan trained H craftspeople for many years.
i do have a number of Birkins and kellys , which are hand stitched, but they are not as finely stitched.
by my definition, most of Hermes bags and all of chanel is machine made.
to me, chanel bags differ bc different factories, different settings, different years, different hides.
@gail13, I agree with your point. IMO, other than the bag quality, the difference between Tory Burch and chanel is the strength of the premier brand; the quality of the design; and the retention of value in resale.
my one Duret bag, as perfect as it is, will not retain value. it’s a work of art, whose design is specific to Duret.
ETA: there is a fact bandied about on line that a 2.55 bag is made by 6-15 people over 15-18 hours. IMO that conjures up a factory assembly line, with nary a hand stitch in sight. I still like my so black mini chevron reissue and other chanel bags very much. They’re great fashion pieces
But I have to highly disregard comparing a Tory Burch bag to Chanel. That’s crazy imo. In spite of peoples feelings with deteriorating quality with Chanel, etc, there’s absolutely no way you can make the comparison to contemporary fashion brands. There are major quality differences.
I’ve owned many chanel bags, but not one tory Burch lol
@bagsaremyjam ,
Duret bag
My journey for an exotic bag started a couple years ago. I spent enough time on my research. I found loads of information on this forum and I am very thankful two ladies Tracey SH and 880 who helped me enormously in this journey. The bag that appealed to me was on the Duret site. I liked her...
forum.purseblog.com
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I never have owned a Tory Burch bag and never will, but I’ve seen and felt the bags, lol. I’ve also seen and looked at all the contemporary fashion brands some are now comparing to Chanel and I find it humorous. I’ve purchased bags in the $200-$400 range for no fuss bags I don’t have to think twice about. Even the ones that appear to be good quality inevitably never hold up to my Chanel bags or other bags I own from other luxury brands. They don’t come remotely close. You see the wear within months.I’ve owned many chanel bags, but not one tory Burch lol
I’ve had bags since I was 17 when I wasn’t as particular with care as I am now, put away in dust bags and forgotten, left in the garage for lengths of time, and the condition they’re in is incredible. It’s what I expect from the designer bags I’ve purchased. There are variables of course with designers. I would own an Hermes bag or two but only care for one style and a few colors and don’t feel like playing their games with purchasing, although I’ve owned enough of their other leather goods.
I feel I’ve purchased enough bags in my life from contemporary and luxury brands to form this opinion.
Agree
(whispering, but perhaps neither of us will buy a 19 tote Duret bag
My journey for an exotic bag started a couple years ago. I spent enough time on my research. I found loads of information on this forum and I am very thankful two ladies Tracey SH and 880 who helped me enormously in this journey. The bag that appealed to me was on the Duret site. I liked her...
forum.purseblog.com
apologies for duplicate posts
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