Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

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#181
ntntgo said:
Again, I rarely have time to come to TPF anymore but I caught up and felt that I needed to chime in on this one.
There is very little human interaction with the leather goods anymore. Everything is machine made other than most of the Metiers that is still hand assembled in France. Notice that I said most.
Also, Chanel closed their Prato operation in the 2010s when the Italian labour union raided the factories for unsafe work environment. They still use a small group there for some hardware assembly. To be clear, this is not just Chanel. This is most of the self proclaimed “luxury” brands.
Chanel now has a large, unmarked factory in Pulia and the locals have now removed from office the officials who approved this move as they were sold on it being brought to Pulia to employ Italians. That didn’t happen. Don’t bother Googling this because you won’t find it or maybe someone who is more savvy than I can. I know this because my family’s business is there. So I do know this first hand.
Lastly, and this is not directed at any one person, please educate yourselves on the distinct difference between “Made In…” and “100% Made In…”. Insert whatever country you want.
There is a huge difference.
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Agree. So glad to see you posting. :smile: There are many articles on the issues with pulia, and elsewhere, not only with camps within Italy, but goods transported from Schengen zone countries or Albania and given a mere finish. (Of course I only know this from what I read so would welcome correction lol)
 
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#182
ntntgo said:
Again, I rarely have time to come to TPF anymore but I caught up and felt that I needed to chime in on this one.
There is very little human interaction with the leather goods anymore. Everything is machine made other than most of the Metiers that is still hand assembled in France. Notice that I said most.
Also, Chanel closed their Prato operation in the 2010s when the Italian labour union raided the factories for unsafe work environment. They still use a small group there for some hardware assembly. To be clear, this is not just Chanel. This is most of the self proclaimed “luxury” brands.
Chanel now has a large, unmarked factory in Pulia and the locals have now removed from office the officials who approved this move as they were sold on it being brought to Pulia to employ Italians. That didn’t happen. Don’t bother Googling this because you won’t find it or maybe someone who is more savvy than I can. I know this because my family’s business is there. So I do know this first hand.
Lastly, and this is not directed at any one person, please educate yourselves on the distinct difference between “Made In…” and “100% Made In…”. Insert whatever country you want.
There is a huge difference.
Click to expand...
Interesting.

If most of the leather goods are machine made, are they then partly assembled by hand? When I purchase bags or leather goods, I always look at multiples of the same item. If it’s not possible at one store, I look at the same item at another store, even if I’ve already purchased it. I like to compare how the items are made. I’m the person that’s fascinated by how different each item is assembled.

I notice the bags are never the same. There are so many different details that differ from each piece, from stitching, overall shape, size to length of chain, quilts, etc, that allude to hand craftsmanship. So I’m confused by those referring to most leather goods being machine made. Is the machine used to sew certain pieces and then artisans finish off the bag?
 
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#183
bagsaremyjam said:
Interesting.

If most of the leather goods are machine made, are they then partly assembled by hand? When I purchase bags or leather goods, I always look at multiples of the same item. If it’s not possible at one store, I look at the same item at another store, even if I’ve already purchased it. I like to compare how the items are made. I’m the person that’s fascinated by how different each item is assembled.

I notice the bags are never the same. There are so many different details that differ from each piece, from stitching, overall shape, size to length of chain, quilts, etc, that allude to hand craftsmanship. So I’m confused by those referring to most leather goods being machine made. Is the machine used to sew certain pieces and then artisans finish off the bag?
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So they make over 72000 bags PER DAY. By the math that would be over 36 handbags per person per day… which is a lot at minimum wage.
 
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#185
TraceySH said:
So they make over 72000 bags PER DAY. By the math that would be over 36 handbags per person per day… which is a lot at minimum wage.
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I understand what you’re saying, but when I look at the bags, they don’t appear to be machine made because there are far too many inconsistencies with each one. They’re all completely different and it appears were made by different people.

What I’m wondering is if the interior parts of the bag (pockets, etc) are machine made and then the other parts assembled by hand. Because that’s what it appears to be to me and I’ve heard this before. Even with machine made products nothing is ever 100% exact, but Chanel bags and leather goods imo do not appear to be 100% machine made. They can’t be when each item differs so much. But obviously I’m trying to understand exactly what some are claiming.
 
#186
Swanky said:
Who makes 72k bags/day? I'd be interested in seeing that info! My family owns a manufacturing business (bottling and stuff) and it's ALL done by machine and that number is pretty big.
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They make 15 million bags per year. Divided by 210 working days per year. Not including holidays. 15m/210 = 72k. And they don’t employ that many people as a company.
 
#187
bagsaremyjam said:
I understand what you’re saying, but when I look at the bags, they don’t appear to be machine made because there are far too many inconsistencies with each one. They’re all completely different and it appears were made by different people.

What I’m wondering is if the interior parts of the bag (pockets, etc) are machine made and then the other parts assembled by hand. Because that’s what it appears to be to me and I’ve heard this before. Even with machine made products nothing is ever 100% exact, but Chanel bags and leathers goods imo do not appear to be 100% machine made. They can’t be when each item differs so much. But obviously I’m trying to understand exactly what some are claiming.
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Well I would say that irregularities happen in all machine made mass produced products. Fast fashion, furniture, bedding, other textiles. Etc. they aren’t all 100% the same.
 
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#189
TraceySH said:
Well I would say that irregularities happen in all machine made mass produced products. Fast fashion, furniture, bedding, other textiles. Etc. they aren’t all 100% the same.
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I’m confirming that as well, but I’ve purchased many luxury designer bags and I can attest to the difference in how unique each Chanel bag is in this case. Hermes we won’t even question here.

It would be impossible for each bag to be 100% machine made and all look this distinctly different in the details. You can even see the different stress points in the sewing.

Or if they are using machines “by hand” that is also something I’ve heard before from LV. If anyone can elaborate with inside knowledge I’d love to hear your thoughts.
 
#192
I think there's some disagreement on this thread as to what constitutes handmade vs. machine-made? Fashion is an industry that uses a ton of human labor even now, and it doesn't matter if it's Shein hyper-fast fashion or Hermes bespoke whatever. There's no machine that makes a handbag or a garment from start to finish--workers have to operate the sewing machines. If fashion could be entirely machine-made there'd be no cause to off-shore its manufacture (note how even cheap cosmetics or skincare are still often made in America, since that process is almost entirely mechanized).

FWIW I don't think hand-sewing is necessarily preferable to machine-sewing. There are things you can accomplish with one method and not with the other. It takes a great deal of skill to operate a sewing machine as well.
 
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#194
tulipfield said:
I think there's some disagreement on this thread as to what constitutes handmade vs. machine-made? Fashion is an industry that uses a ton of human labor even now, and it doesn't matter if it's Shein hyper-fast fashion or Hermes bespoke whatever. There's no machine that makes a handbag or a garment from start to finish--workers have to operate the sewing machines. If fashion could be entirely machine-made there'd be no cause to off-shore its manufacture (note how even cheap cosmetics or skincare are still often made in America, since that process is almost entirely mechanized).

FWIW I don't think hand-sewing is necessarily preferable to machine-sewing. There are things you can accomplish with one method and not with the other. It takes a great deal of skill to operate a sewing machine as well.
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Yes. There have been flippant remarks about everything being machine made to take away from the handmade craftsmanship we expect with a bag like Chanel for example. And I think that’s where the confusion is.

Because machine made in most of our minds is all done with machines, and with the comment above thats they’re all machine made when x amount of bags are made a day, it doesn’t make sense to me. Hand making a bag using machines is still hand made to me.
 
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