Chanel’s Rise & STALL: Defects, Difficulties & Deflection (formerly the 19 tote saga thread)

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#152
We all know fashion houses can say things that are less than honest. Made in Italy here means grommets and chains added in Italy...who knows where most of the item was made? And leather means if it has 1% of leather and 99% plastic, it can be labeled leather. I believe thats the point? I think OP is saying we all need to open our eyes to what luxury is feeding us and we all need to ask for transparency. Rules are different depending upon where you manufacture.

Until recently, I believed what the tag said or what I saw on the website, but no more. I have to ask myself how I feel buying from brands that say made in Italy but they are made in factories basically brought over from China.

Everyone is obviously free to purchase as they see fit but why would you want to pay $5500 for a bag that is mostly plastic that you were led to believe is leather? I thought that was what TPF was all about, helping people understand brands, lines and all the quality and other issues in between. This has been a eye opening thread and I do appreciate the posts about the close ups of the leather etc.
 
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#153
bagsaremyjam said:
Yes, I understand what you’re saying. I didn’t realize the tote was in the 19 collection until after I first commented. *face palm*

Some of the bags look similar with the chains so I though the tote was made in regular lamb (which I thought was illogical in that size and shape given the nature of lambskin), not the durable, treated 19 lamb.

It’s ironic that lamb is commonly used by fashion houses for its soft, buttery feel but the very thin skin (generally speaking) contradicts practicality for me. I’ve stayed away from lamb with the exception of a few things, but now I’ll buy lamb treated like the 19 bags. Lol.

So yeah, admittedly there’s something wrong with her bag. It seems like a lot of bad batches. Chanel has had its share of crooked bags, but in this case something very unusual went down in their factories. These are issues none of us have seen.
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If you get a chance check out the vintage lamb bags or maybe you have a few? I have a couple and they hold up so well and scratches can be buffed out for the most part. And they can be refinished.
 
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#154
gail13 said:
If you get a chance check out the vintage lamb bags or maybe you have a few? I have a couple and they hold up so well and scratches can be buffed out for the most part. And they can be refinished.
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I’m so particular I like vintage bags in mint condition (and always the most popular ones - Diana bag, beige and caramel caviar flaps) and the prices for those are always hair raising, lol. The ones I’ve recently wanted cost more than a medium classic flap WITH tax!! No thanks, lol. But the pristine vintage bags are so stunning.
 
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#155
gail13 said:
We all know fashion houses can say things that are less than honest. Made in Italy here means grommets and chains added in Italy...who knows where most of the item was made? And leather means if it has 1% of leather and 99% plastic, it can be labeled leather. I believe thats the point? I think OP is saying we all need to open our eyes to what luxury is feeding us and we all need to ask for transparency. Rules are different depending upon where you manufacture.

Until recently, I believed what the tag said or what I saw on the website, but no more. I have to ask myself how I feel buying from brands that say made in Italy but they are made in factories basically brought over from China.

Everyone is obviously free to purchase as they see fit but why would you want to pay $5500 for a bag that is mostly plastic that you were led to believe is leather? I thought that was what TPF was all about, helping people understand brands, lines and all the quality and other issues in between. This has been a eye opening thread and I do appreciate the posts about the close ups of the leather etc.
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Europe has really strict standards and regulations with regards to disclosing material truthfully, or ingredients for that matter. It’s heavily overseen. European standards are very high with quality of product - whether it’s luxury goods, cosmetics, food, etc. So many things that are allowed in the US are not allowed in Europe.

I see your point in questioning what is legally allowed to be labeled what. But since all luxury products come from Europe I’m certain it’s illegal to call something leather if it’s 1% leather and 99% plastic. I’m sure that’s even the case in the US and our government could care less about what’s in most of the things we consume or use.
 
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#156
Let’s not get carried away here. The European Union says bonded leather is legally defined as

a material with a minimum dry skin fibre content of 50 % by weight, in which the tanned skin is mechanically and/or chemically disintegrated into fibrous particles, small pieces or powders and then, possibly in combination with a chemical binder, transformed into sheets.
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Also
‘leather’ and ‘hide’: the general term for designating the hide or skin of an animal with its original fibrous structure more or less intact and tanned so as to prevent rotting. The hair or wool may or may not have been removed. Leather may also be obtained from hide or skin removed in layers or segments, before or after tanning. If, however, the hide or skin is mechanically disintegrated and/or chemically reduced into fibrous particles, pieces or powders and then, with or without the addition of a binding agent, transformed into sheets or other forms, those sheets or forms may not be called ‘leather’ and, where they fall under the definition referred to in (d), they shall be called ‘bonded leather’. If the leather has a layer of coating, irrespective of how it has been applied, or a bonded layer, such layers must not exceed a thickness of 0.15 mm. If the material retains the original grain which occurs when the epidermis has been removed and without any surface film having been removed by buffing, fleshing or splitting, the term ‘full grain leather’ may be used;


‘coated leather’ and ‘coated hide’: a leather or hide product in which the layer of coating or bonding does not exceed one third of the total thickness of the product, but is greater than 0.15 mm;
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And Also
Notwithstanding cases in which a criminal offence has been committed, any manufacturer or importer which places on the market materials which use the terms referred to in paragraph 2, as well as any items manufactured with them, either as adjectives or nouns, including where they are inserted as prefixes or suffixes in other words, or under the generic names of ‘leather goods’, ‘leather’, ‘hide’ or ‘fur’, i.e. derivatives, which do not conform to the definition referred to in paragraph 2 declared on the label, mark or, where permitted, accompanying commercial document, shall be subject, in accordance with paragraph 6 of this article, to a fine of between EUR 3 000 and EUR 20 000.
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#157
Yhte123 said:
Let’s not get carried away here. The European Union says bonded leather is legally defined as


Also


And Also
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EU isn't strict at all about labeling leather or leather constitutions. I was curious a few days ago & looked it up, it was pretty easy to find but I didn't think to put it back on here. Thank you so much for posting!

The "made in" is the biggest issue here too. 99% of something can be made in china, final assembly in Italy, and can then be labeled "Made in Italy". Not cool. Thank you Tom Ford for that one.
 
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#158
Yhte123 said:
Let’s not get carried away here. The European Union says bonded leather is legally defined as


Also


And Also
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Well 50% is not 1%, so that’s the point I was making with the extreme example above. With a company like Chanel, with the amount of products they produce, and if they’re found criminally liable, I would imagine their fine would be astronomical.

I don’t know how corrupt the world of fashion is in Europe, but a large part of their economy is from the export of luxury goods. I imagine places like France have a tight grip on these companies, but anything is possible. I do know that France recently greatly increased the tax on luxury goods, and instead of fashion houses paying those taxes they offset the cost to consumers.
 
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#159
bagsaremyjam said:
Well 50% is not 1%, so that’s the point I was making with the extreme example above. With a company like Chanel, with the amount of products they produce, and if they’re found criminally liable, I would imagine their fine would be astronomical.

I don’t know how corrupt the world of fashion is in Europe, but a large part of their economy is from the export of luxury goods. I imagine places like France have a tight grip on these companies, but anything is possible. I do know that France recently greatly increased the tax on luxury goods, and instead of fashion houses paying those taxes they offset the cost to consumers.
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Chanel isn't a French company anymore tho, so that wouldn't affect them.
 
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#161
bagsaremyjam said:
It’s now technically based in the UK, but I’d be surprised if they could deviate taxes since their home base for a majority of their company is still in France.
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They moved BECAUSE of taxes & strict French manufacturing policies. Majority of their factories are in Italy, a few left in France. Wertheimer's live in NY. They are no longer based in France.
 
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