Blue Agate Fading?

[nicole0612]

Here are some pics when I was choosing my blue agate. (I think this was mine.) even for a new piece there were differences between motifs even with one bracelet.

I think this is partially due to the lighting causing the stones to look different/not match within the same bracelet even when new - (the bracelets are a different shade from one to the next of course). I was wondering about this and had my SA send more photos and a video because the stones would look different in the same piece, but when received and seen in person the color was the same throughout (I usually have 2 options shipped to choose between when I buy in the USA).

 

[allanrvj]

I learned so much!!! Thank you for this informative post! I didn’t know the stones were dyed but it makes sense that it would not be able to withstand UV exposure over time. I wonder if re-dyeing is possible or if they would just toss your old stones and replace with new ones.

VCA sources all their stones from suppliers, so they won't re-dye them. only replace with new ones

 

[allanrvj]

I do appreciate that VCA takes the time to source matching stones for their HJ pieces as they should given the price tags, but I do wonder why they’ve recently been slacking on their regular Alhambra pieces since I’ve been seeing more mismatched motifs on display at the boutique. I know the brand had a sudden uptick in interest and sales these last few years and they were trying to catch up to the demand but it is a bit disappointing that they don’t give the same treatment to their “entry level” pieces even though they are still very spendy for most people!

Also given that their BA and Carnelian are most likely dyed I wonder why they haven’t been able to achieve more consistency with the dye color to be more vibrant. Most of the BA pieces I’ve seen at the boutique look dull and yellowish even though they are brand new. It’s been hard to find vibrant BA like the ones I saw from 4 years ago.

regarding the dye variation in BA and carnelian, it’s actually less about the dye recipe and more about the natural base stone itself. agate, even before dyeing, varies a lot. some are more milky and opaque, others more translucent or even semi-transparent

you can see here a sampling of the variation: milky near upper left, translucent lower right

so when the same dye is applied:

• a milky agate base absorbs and reflects color differently, resulting in a brighter or more vibrant tone
• a translucent agate base lets more light through and can look darker, smokier, or less saturated even if the dye was the same

this natural variation makes it really hard to achieve completely uniform results across batches

as for the quality differences in recent Alhambra motifs, I’ve noticed the same thing. the surge in demand post-2020 likely strained their supply chain a bit, and while HJ pieces still get top sourcing priority, the more "accessible" collections might not go through the same strict visual checks as before, simply so they can keep up with demand

 

[allanrvj]

Truly appreciate people sharing their experiences here. So far I see reports of color change on blue agate and carnelians, I wonder if anyone experienced color change on chalcedony creations? Since chalcedony is lighter in color, won’t that make chalcedony more susceptible to color change?

chalcedony, unlike dyed agate or carnelian, has a natural blue (or purplish) color that doesn’t rely on treatments, so it’s not particularly prone to color change. it’s still a natural stone, so of course it should be cared for properly, but it’s far more stable compared to dyed agates where the stone underwent sugar-acid boiling to open pores for dye to seep in

 

[BabyBenV]

okay let's go through this one by one:

1. turquoise used by VCA is typically stabilized, which is an accepted treatment in the gem world. natural turquoise is quite porous and soft, so stabilization helps preserve the color and structure. this is usually done by immersing the stone in resin and using pressure or vacuum to bond it internally, then curing it with heat. it still looks natural, just more durable, because true natural turquoise is also prone to oxidation due to its copper content, which can cause the color to darken or shift to a greenish hue with exposure to air or skin oils. stabilization helps seal the surface and keep the stone looking vibrant for much longer

2. VCA doesn't currently use jade in its collections. in the past, they have very occasionally used nephrite jade (the cloudy, more muted jade), not jadeite (the jade that looks like emerald) and even that was quite limited (see the Rare Alhambra pieces thread). and yes, when they did use it, it was untreated. VCA is very strict about gemstone treatments, so you won’t find dyed or polymer-impregnated jade in their pieces

3. most pink sapphires used by VCA, like in the Two Butterfly collection, are likely heat-treated, which is a completely standard and accepted enhancement for sapphires, especially in fine jewelry (where Two Butterfly falls under). it improves color and clarity without adding anything artificial, and the treatment is permanent. VCA is very selective with gemstone quality, so even their treated stones are exceptional. they do use unheated stones in some of their exceptional high jewelry pieces (especially blues from Kashmir or Burmese pinks), but that’s often specified and come with six-digit euro price tags (at least).

that’s amazing to hear, and it actually supports what I was saying. since Folie des Prés is part of VCA’s high jewelry offering, it makes total sense that they’d go the extra mile to source unheated sapphires, especially in delicate shades like pink and lavender. waiting 18 months to find matching stones really shows the level of care and commitment to visual harmony

it’s a perfect example of how VCA doesn’t follow a blanket approach to treatments but instead chooses what best serves the piece. when unheated stones can be used without compromising the design, they absolutely will

thanks again for sharing that, it's such a great real-world case

Thank you again for sharing these. I know it's up to debate but I undoubtedly believe what my SA (and other senior SAs) has said throughout that VCA indeed use non treated Sapphires for All of their jewelry; these are not restricted to only their High Jewelry, Heritage pieces but also on their Standard Jewelry, for e.g. Two Butterfly collections, Perlee, and/or Frivole Pink Sapphire. Throughout the years, I've seen many many different shades of Pink Sapphires or even Yellow Sapphires on Two Butterfly collection as an example.

Even for my own set, the Pink Sapphires’ shades on both my Two Butterfly BTFR and earrings and Frivole earrings match together (they were purchased at the same time) - they’re on the lighter shades whilst on the pendant (purchased a few months earlier) it is a little darker and maybe it’s close to purplish pink. I was a bit apprehensive at first, but overtime I’ve come to terms to accept these and appreciate such variations are due to natural elements of the Sapphires VCA has been using in their production.

This has happened with my recent acquisition of Lapis RdN earrings too where my SA closely pointed out that the pair is not really that identical (though the difference is so subtle); one side is slightly darker than the other. Therefore, I could have more choice if I can come across the matching pendant which shade that can match either the left pair or the right pair. Variation of VCA individual pieces are unfortunately part and parcel of using non-treated natural stones, and best we can do is just to see which ones closer/uniform enough that we can accept.

Other finding that @EpiFanatic pointed out regarding the Mauve FDP is indeed consistent with what I’ve experienced/been informed too where currently it’s on non-orderable list and sourcing such uniform Sapphires are getting more and more difficult.

 

[allanrvj]

Thank you again for sharing these. I know it's up to debate but I undoubtedly believe what my SA (and other senior SAs) has said throughout that VCA indeed use non treated Sapphires for All of their jewelry; these are not restricted to only their High Jewelry, Heritage pieces but also on their Standard Jewelry, for e.g. Two Butterfly collections, Perlee, and/or Frivole Pink Sapphire. Throughout the years, I've seen many many different shades of Pink Sapphires or even Yellow Sapphires on Two Butterfly collection as an example.

Even for my own set, the Pink Sapphires’ shades on both my Two Butterfly BTFR and earrings and Frivole earrings match together (they were purchased at the same time) - they’re on the lighter shades whilst on the pendant (purchased a few months earlier) it is a little darker and maybe it’s close to purplish pink. I was a bit apprehensive at first, but overtime I’ve come to terms to accept these and appreciate such variations are due to natural elements of the Sapphires VCA has been using in their production.

This has happened with my recent acquisition of Lapis RdN earrings too where my SA closely pointed out that the pair is not really that identical (though the difference is so subtle); one side is slightly darker than the other. Therefore, I could have more choice if I can come across the matching pendant which shade that can match either the left pair or the right pair. Variation of VCA individual pieces are unfortunately part and parcel of using non-treated natural stones, and best we can do is just to see which ones closer/uniform enough that we can accept.

Other finding that @EpiFanatic pointed out regarding the Mauve FDP is indeed consistent with what I’ve experienced/been informed too where currently it’s on non-orderable list and sourcing such uniform Sapphires are getting more and more difficult.

thank you for sharing your experiences, it's always so fascinating to hear how pieces differ in real life and how everyone approaches those variations. I totally agree that VCA places a lot of importance on stone harmony, whether it’s color-matching pink sapphires or pairing lapis with the right tone and veining

about heat treatment, I know opinions vary and there's a lot of nuance in the gem world. some sapphires are treated, some aren’t, and it really depends on the design, the collection, and what the maison is aiming for in the final look. from what I’ve read and heard from gemologists, heat treatment is widely accepted and actually quite common even in high-end jewelry, but I also understand that SAs may share different info depending on what they’ve been told or trained to say

either way, I think we all appreciate and agree that VCA always strives to present the most harmonious and beautiful version of a design, regardless of the gem’s backstory

 

[stephbb9]

I have been looking for a while as I worry too much about my jewelry 🙈and read that agate needs to be cleaned properly every once in a while.
“Cleaning agate is crucial for maintaining its natural radiance and longevity. Over time, agate can accumulate dirt, oils, and other impurities, which can dull its appearance and diminish its vibrant colors. Furthermore, if not cleaned regularly, agate jewelry can become tarnished and lose its sparkle. By keeping agate clean, you not only preserve its aesthetic appeal but also ensure its durability, making it last for generations to come.”
It is a strong stone and UV and extreme heat are probably the worst.
So people should probably not shower with it.
Also the gold tarnished and maybe could affect the stone?
So I would recommend bringing in to the store every once in a while for cleaning or do it yourself.
I have been cleaning mine maybe every six months (or when finger traces don’t come off with a cloth) with warm soapy water and dry fully after.
The chain can probably be cleaned with a polishing cloth and sides of the motifs too if tarnished.
I do the same with my carnelian guilloché bracelet.

How To Clean Agate | Cleanestor

To clean agate, gently rinse it with water and use a soft brush or cloth to remove any dirt or debris.

cleanestor.com

 

[Sleepytini]

I guess this is an example of well matched purple sapphires.

Thread 'Folie de Pres…'

Apr 22, 2023

Just want to share my dear friend’s most recent acquisition. She doesn’t mind me posting her piece and since we don’t frequently get to see high jewelry worn with a black hair tie, (on her way to the vet) I thought, why not?

• EpiFanatic
• Replies: 16
• Forum: Van Cleef & Arpels

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Wow! This is stunning!

 

[chareen]

thank you for sharing your experiences, it's always so fascinating to hear how pieces differ in real life and how everyone approaches those variations. I totally agree that VCA places a lot of importance on stone harmony, whether it’s color-matching pink sapphires or pairing lapis with the right tone and veining

about heat treatment, I know opinions vary and there's a lot of nuance in the gem world. some sapphires are treated, some aren’t, and it really depends on the design, the collection, and what the maison is aiming for in the final look. from what I’ve read and heard from gemologists, heat treatment is widely accepted and actually quite common even in high-end jewelry, but I also understand that SAs may share different info depending on what they’ve been told or trained to say

either way, I think we all appreciate and agree that VCA always strives to present the most harmonious and beautiful version of a design, regardless of the gem’s backstory

I looked at my valuation paper. In their Terms and Conditions section, it does state: Colored stones may have been treated to enhance their color and/or clarity and the treatment(s) may be undetectable. 😳

Well, this topic had me take a look. I thought the stones used by VCA were not treated - carnelians, blue agate, etc - but the valuation paper does indicate otherwise.

Yes, the heated/unheated and other stone qualities aside from gold and carat weight are not mentioned in the paper. It’s the certificate to give out to insurance companies in case of theft or damages.

 

[Swellgal]

I looked at my valuation paper. In their Terms and Conditions section, it does state: Colored stones may have been treated to enhance their color and/or clarity and the treatment(s) may be undetectable. 😳

Well, this topic had me take a look. I thought the stones used by VCA were not treated - carnelians, blue agate, etc - but the valuation paper does indicate otherwise.

Yes, the heated/unheated and other stone qualities aside from gold and carat weight are not mentioned in the paper. It’s the certificate to give out to insurance companies in case of theft or damages.

Wow. Well if they are going to heat treat their sapphires to increase vibrancy somewhat anyway, they could sure do a better job of it. The pink sapphire pieces I have seen have been so pale that I was very turned off by them. I owed that to them being completely natural. I personally wouldn’t want to own a VCA sapphire piece knowing this. I do own non-VCA sapphire pieces that I adore but they were a fraction of the cost of the ones VCA sells. I’m super brand-loyal, but this is so disappointing.

 

[Sophie0121]

thank you for sharing your experiences, it's always so fascinating to hear how pieces differ in real life and how everyone approaches those variations. I totally agree that VCA places a lot of importance on stone harmony, whether it’s color-matching pink sapphires or pairing lapis with the right tone and veining

about heat treatment, I know opinions vary and there's a lot of nuance in the gem world. some sapphires are treated, some aren’t, and it really depends on the design, the collection, and what the maison is aiming for in the final look. from what I’ve read and heard from gemologists, heat treatment is widely accepted and actually quite common even in high-end jewelry, but I also understand that SAs may share different info depending on what they’ve been told or trained to say

either way, I think we all appreciate and agree that VCA always strives to present the most harmonious and beautiful version of a design, regardless of the gem’s backstory

Hello not sure we are still on the good thread but sorry if not : when I was wandering at Watches and Wonders there was a diamond setter in another high Swiss brand boutique. He told me he began at Cartier and that he really preferred the diamonds and HJ stones he works with now (so not same IHO than the ones at Cartier) because they are really well chosen stones and quality stones. But maybe he was beginning at Cartier then and now he is a higher rank professional and that could also explain the difference in stone quality he used then and now ? Wonder if you know anything about differences between brands ?

 

[bagluv4ever]

I got my first BA piece last week, actually got it pre-loved, (it was originally purchased from the boutique just in the last 10 months). I thought the color looked good or what it is supposed to look like, and I do hope it remains this same color. I didn't know about this being a translucent stone and I about had a panic attack when I was looking at it dangling in the light!

 

[Swellgal]

I got my first BA piece last week, actually got it pre-loved, (it was originally purchased from the boutique just in the last 10 months). I thought the color looked good or what it is supposed to look like, and I do hope it remains this same color. I didn't know about this being a translucent stone and I about had a panic attack when I was looking at it dangling in the light!

Absolutely gorgeous agate! Congratulations! Now you have me wanting a magic pendant!

 

[bagluv4ever]

Absolutely gorgeous agate! Congratulations! Now you have me wanting a magic pendant!

Thank you!! Yeah, I really debated if I should get this or another 10-motif necklace, (I have the 10-motif in MOP), and decided that maybe I should have something a little different in my collection, like more for a little casual wear, and this bigger pendant and in this color was really a brave move for me!!! Still a little nervous about it!! lol...

 

[Swellgal]

Thank you!! Yeah, I really debated if I should get this or another 10-motif necklace, (I have the 10-motif in MOP), and decided that maybe I should have something a little different in my collection, like more for a little casual wear, and this bigger pendant and in this color was really a brave move for me!!! Still a little nervous about it!! lol...

I absolutely love the magic pendant! I feel like the 60s/70s long necklace looks are having a moment right now too, so it feels very stylish, even with a white t shirt. I also like the more rounded shape of the magic too. I’m crushing hard on the magic agate it carnelian.