Blue Agate Fading?

[Sophie0121]

@allanrvj VCA is pretty clear that they do NOT use heat treated sapphires. It’s one of the reasons their pink two butterfly collection (amongst other non-HJ items) lack vibrancy. They are one of the very few jewelers who do not heat treat sapphires, which greatly increases their value and price.

Thanks swellgal. I am also pretty sure it is what I heard at VCA and Piaget (same group) and I ll just ask my SA to be sure. I would be disappointed if the sapphire are heated.

 

[Sophie0121]

I am a bit surprised about that. I was under the impression that the sapphires VCA used in the small Frivole RG necklaces are unheated. Maybe this is disclosed in the appraisal papers they provide where carat weight, etc is disclosed?

I asked Cartier before about their sapphire pieces, and I was told theirs was also heated. Tiffany is also the same. I guess this is a normal practice.

For VCA I was pretty sure the sapphire weren’t heated but maybe I got it wrong …. I edited my post not to get anybody wrong as I am confused 🤔

 

[chareen]

They told me Piaget and VCA use only natural stones for Turquoise (I was told Chopard doesn’t for their happy heart collection, the turquoise is recombined)
- for pink sapphire I am unsure : I thought they used not heated sapphire in these brands, but I just asked at Watches & Wonders for Chanel watches which this year have many pink sapphire but they use heated sapphire for that purpose 😔

The stabilized turquoise does make sense. Otherwise the stone will crumble. I’m a bit surprised about this though, because Chinese people like jades that are untreated - no chances of chemicals leaking into the bloodstream like what one would get from a grade B jade. The thought of a resin or epoxy touching the skin from stabilizing turquoise is a bit odd. (Edit: I just read that “cured” resin / epoxy is safe for the skin.)

Ah, this is the rabbit hole I didn’t like in the jade thread. lol

 

[chareen]

For VCA I was pretty sure the sapphire weren’t heated but maybe I got it wrong …. I edited my post not to get anybody wrong as I am confused 🤔

No worries.. I know of another person who isn’t a tpf member who was also was informed that her sapphire pieces are unheated as well (the mainstream butterfly, Frivole), so I’m confused too.

 

[allanrvj]

@allanrvj VCA is pretty clear that they do NOT use heat treated sapphires. It’s one of the reasons their pink two butterfly collection (amongst other non-HJ items) lack vibrancy. They are one of the very few jewelers who do not heat treat sapphires, which greatly increases their value and price.

that’s a great observation, and you’re absolutely right that VCA does use unheated sapphires in some of their exceptional high jewelry pieces. for example, the Plume d’autruche ring, which features a 29.88 carats Kashmir sapphire, is almost certainly unheated. Kashmir sapphires are prized for their velvety color caused by internal silk-like inclusions, which would be destroyed by heat. so heating would not only diminish the stone’s value, it would go against what makes a Kashmir sapphire special in the first place. at this level, unheated is the default, even if not explicitly stated on the website (they even omitted the Kashmir description here though it's present on their now-abandoned Tumblr account)



that said, it’s interesting to note that even in cases like this, VCA doesn’t always explicitly state “unheated” in public-facing descriptions. treatment details, especially for high-value stones, are typically confirmed privately via lab certificates (GIA, SSEF, Gübelin, etc.) shared during private viewings or upon purchase

so for pieces in the fine jewelry collections like Two Butterfly, unless the sapphire is specifically described as unheated, it's quite likely that standard heat treatment has been applied. this is a widely accepted practice in fine jewelry, and VCA still maintains an incredibly high threshold for color, clarity, and stone quality, even for treated gems

more broadly, VCA tends to withhold technical gemology terms from their public materials. for instance, while it's well understood among gemologists that the blue agate used in the Alhambra collection is dyed (like I mentioned above), VCA never uses that word on their website (and even when you ask their customer service; I tried). similarly, they rarely mention whether a sapphire is heated or unheated unless it’s a major selling point in high jewelry. their language leans more toward storytelling and design inspiration, leaving the gemological specifics for certification or client conversations

 

[EpiFanatic]

@allanrvj VCA is pretty clear that they do NOT use heat treated sapphires. It’s one of the reasons their pink two butterfly collection (amongst other non-HJ items) lack vibrancy. They are one of the very few jewelers who do not heat treat sapphires, which greatly increases their value and price.

@Swellgal i think this is what my friend who got a HJ sapphire bracelet was told too cause it took VCA a long a while to get all the stones they needed to complete the bracelet. That’s what they told her I think. I’ll check with her.

 

[EpiFanatic]

okay let's go through this one by one:

1. turquoise used by VCA is typically stabilized, which is an accepted treatment in the gem world. natural turquoise is quite porous and soft, so stabilization helps preserve the color and structure. this is usually done by immersing the stone in resin and using pressure or vacuum to bond it internally, then curing it with heat. it still looks natural, just more durable, because true natural turquoise is also prone to oxidation due to its copper content, which can cause the color to darken or shift to a greenish hue with exposure to air or skin oils. stabilization helps seal the surface and keep the stone looking vibrant for much longer

2. VCA doesn't currently use jade in its collections. in the past, they have very occasionally used nephrite jade (the cloudy, more muted jade), not jadeite (the jade that looks like emerald) and even that was quite limited (see the Rare Alhambra pieces thread). and yes, when they did use it, it was untreated. VCA is very strict about gemstone treatments, so you won’t find dyed or polymer-impregnated jade in their pieces

3. most pink sapphires used by VCA, like in the Two Butterfly collection, are likely heat-treated, which is a completely standard and accepted enhancement for sapphires, especially in fine jewelry (where Two Butterfly falls under). it improves color and clarity without adding anything artificial, and the treatment is permanent. VCA is very selective with gemstone quality, so even their treated stones are exceptional. they do use unheated stones in some of their exceptional high jewelry pieces (especially blues from Kashmir or Burmese pinks), but that’s often specified and come with six-digit euro price tags (at least).

Thanks @allanrvj. I love learning about what standard industry accepted treatments are and the purpose. I feel this is more reliable information than what spews from a random SA.

 

[chareen]

that’s a great observation, and you’re absolutely right that VCA does use unheated sapphires in some of their exceptional high jewelry pieces. for example, the Plume d’autruche ring, which features a 29.88 carats Kashmir sapphire, is almost certainly unheated. Kashmir sapphires are prized for their velvety color caused by internal silk-like inclusions, which would be destroyed by heat. so heating would not only diminish the stone’s value, it would go against what makes a Kashmir sapphire special in the first place. at this level, unheated is the default, even if not explicitly stated on the website (they even omitted the Kashmir description here though it's present on their now-abandoned Tumblr account)

View attachment 6160197

that said, it’s interesting to note that even in cases like this, VCA doesn’t always explicitly state “unheated” in public-facing descriptions. treatment details, especially for high-value stones, are typically confirmed privately via lab certificates (GIA, SSEF, Gübelin, etc.) shared during private viewings or upon purchase

so for pieces in the fine jewelry collections like Two Butterfly, unless the sapphire is specifically described as unheated, it's quite likely that standard heat treatment has been applied. this is a widely accepted practice in fine jewelry, and VCA still maintains an incredibly high threshold for color, clarity, and stone quality, even for treated gems

more broadly, VCA tends to withhold technical gemology terms from their public materials. for instance, while it's well understood among gemologists that the blue agate used in the Alhambra collection is dyed (like I mentioned above), VCA never uses that word on their website (and even when you ask their customer service; I tried). similarly, they rarely mention whether a sapphire is heated or unheated unless it’s a major selling point in high jewelry. their language leans more toward storytelling and design inspiration, leaving the gemological specifics for certification or client conversations

I’m just surprised after all these years, I never knew that these carnelians and the BA were treated. I did noticed they darkened overtime.

You certainly know your gems. 😍

I want to see a Kashmir sapphire in person now.

 

[Swellgal]

that’s a great observation, and you’re absolutely right that VCA does use unheated sapphires in some of their exceptional high jewelry pieces. for example, the Plume d’autruche ring, which features a 29.88 carats Kashmir sapphire, is almost certainly unheated. Kashmir sapphires are prized for their velvety color caused by internal silk-like inclusions, which would be destroyed by heat. so heating would not only diminish the stone’s value, it would go against what makes a Kashmir sapphire special in the first place. at this level, unheated is the default, even if not explicitly stated on the website (they even omitted the Kashmir description here though it's present on their now-abandoned Tumblr account)

View attachment 6160197

that said, it’s interesting to note that even in cases like this, VCA doesn’t always explicitly state “unheated” in public-facing descriptions. treatment details, especially for high-value stones, are typically confirmed privately via lab certificates (GIA, SSEF, Gübelin, etc.) shared during private viewings or upon purchase

so for pieces in the fine jewelry collections like Two Butterfly, unless the sapphire is specifically described as unheated, it's quite likely that standard heat treatment has been applied. this is a widely accepted practice in fine jewelry, and VCA still maintains an incredibly high threshold for color, clarity, and stone quality, even for treated gems

more broadly, VCA tends to withhold technical gemology terms from their public materials. for instance, while it's well understood among gemologists that the blue agate used in the Alhambra collection is dyed (like I mentioned above), VCA never uses that word on their website (and even when you ask their customer service; I tried). similarly, they rarely mention whether a sapphire is heated or unheated unless it’s a major selling point in high jewelry. their language leans more toward storytelling and design inspiration, leaving the gemological specifics for certification or client conversations

Anecdotally I did recently try on the pink sapphire and pave two butterfly ring and specifically asked for that piece if it was heat treated, to which my SA replied that No, it is not heat treated nor are any of their pieces. I would have a real problem paying that much money for a heat treated sapphire, as there are more vibrant, heat treated ones to be had at other jewelers for a fraction of the cost. Understanding, of course, that one pays a lot for the VCA name but it does sully the name if you question the heat treatment methods.

 

[allanrvj]

Thanks @allanrvj. I love learning about what standard industry accepted treatments are and the purpose. I feel this is more reliable information than what spews from a random SA.

you're welcome. like I said in my comment above, even their customer service is trained to not say their blue agate stones are dyed. before I got into gemology, I emailed VCA's customer's service asking if their blue agate is dyed. and I got a fluffy long-winded answer, essentially lying to me that their blue agate stones are natural. lol

 

[allanrvj]

Anecdotally I did recently try on the pink sapphire and pave two butterfly ring and specifically asked for that piece if it was heat treated, to which my SA replied that No, it is not heat treated nor are any of their pieces. I would have a real problem paying that much money for a heat treated sapphire, as there are more vibrant, heat treated ones to be had at other jewelers for a fraction of the cost. Understanding, of course, that one pays a lot for the VCA name but it does sully the name if you question the heat treatment methods.

just know that SA's are trained to answer in a specific way, because that’s what they’re instructed to say

but like I mentioned, heated or unheated, VCA still chooses the best and highest-quality stones, primarily because Jacques Arpels was known for his discerning eye and personal investment in sourcing stones. he traveled extensively to find the finest gems and held a deep appreciation for natural beauty, which became part of the maison’s DNA, especially in high jewelry. stone quality is a pillar of VCA

that legacy continues today, where even their fine jewelry reflects a refined and distinct approach to stone choice. [insert superlative adjective here for stone choice 😁]

 

[EpiFanatic]

just know that SA's are trained to answer in a specific way, because that’s what they’re instructed to say

but like I mentioned, heated or unheated, VCA still chooses the best and highest-quality stones, primarily because Jacques Arpels was known for his discerning eye and personal investment in sourcing stones. he traveled extensively to find the finest gems and held a deep appreciation for natural beauty, which became part of the maison’s DNA, especially in high jewelry. stone quality is a pillar of VCA

that legacy continues today, where even their fine jewelry reflects a refined and distinct approach to stone choice. [insert superlative adjective here for stone choice 😁]

I just texted her and she confirmed her Folie bracelet is not treated, not even heat treated. She has the pink and lavender sapphire version. It took them a while to find all the matching stones. I think she waited 18 months.

 

[allanrvj]

I just texted her and she confirmed her Folie bracelet is not treated, not even heat treated. She has the pink and lavender sapphire version. It took them a while to find all the matching stones. I think she waited 18 months.

that’s amazing to hear, and it actually supports what I was saying. since Folie des Prés is part of VCA’s high jewelry offering, it makes total sense that they’d go the extra mile to source unheated sapphires, especially in delicate shades like pink and lavender. waiting 18 months to find matching stones really shows the level of care and commitment to visual harmony

it’s a perfect example of how VCA doesn’t follow a blanket approach to treatments but instead chooses what best serves the piece. when unheated stones can be used without compromising the design, they absolutely will

thanks again for sharing that, it's such a great real-world case

 

[EpiFanatic]

that’s amazing to hear, and it actually supports what I was saying. since Folie des Prés is part of VCA’s high jewelry offering, it makes total sense that they’d go the extra mile to source unheated sapphires, especially in delicate shades like pink and lavender. waiting 18 months to find matching stones really shows the level of care and commitment to visual harmony

it’s a perfect example of how VCA doesn’t follow a blanket approach to treatments but instead chooses what best serves the piece. when unheated stones can be used without compromising the design, they absolutely will

thanks again for sharing that, it's such a great real-world case

I am quite ignorant about colored stones and didn’t know that you can’t just source specific colors of untreated sapphires off a menu. But your understanding of the Arpel’s personal history is consistent with her experience, which is cool. Nice to know they treat high jewelry as just that.

 

[allanrvj]

I am quite ignorant about colored stones and didn’t know that you can’t just source specific colors of untreated sapphires off a menu. But your understanding of the Arpel’s personal history is consistent with her experience, which is cool. Nice to know they treat high jewelry as just that.

thanks for that. honestly, I really appreciate the open-mindedness. and yes, sourcing untreated sapphires in specific colors is incredibly difficult, especially when you want them to match across a piece. that kind of thing takes time, which is why I always say: VCA really doesn't take shortcuts when it comes to visual harmony (I hear they also find it challenging to match the ruby version of Folie des Prés bracelet; also takes a lot of time)

just to share where I’m coming from: even though VCA uses dyed agate and stabilized turquoise, and they don’t always specify whether their gemstones are heated or unheated on their print materials (they're selling romance, poetry, and timeless beauty after all), that doesn’t take away from my love for the maison. it doesn’t lessen my enjoyment of their pieces, and I genuinely look forward to being their customer for years to come