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#6,272
fuzzymummy said:
Thanks BB. What you say makes sense for a BIN purchase since you have to pay immediately but even with an auction I always pay very quickly; I am Ms. Rapido with the payment so I know I won. I have a feedback handle Speedy Gonzales my paying skills are so immediate. I've been stewing about this so I called eBay (thanks Whateve) and lodged a complaint, binding contract and all, etc.
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I had a very similar experience recently on ebay, I purchased something, which was a great price, paid immediately and then...nothing. I finally wrote the seller after 2 weeks, since I never received a tracking number or anything. It took them another 3 days to tell me that "something came up" and that they would be more than happy to refund my money, and "what did I want to do?" So I replied "I just want my item", even though by then it's almost 3 weeks after I paid. They refunded even though I said I wanted the item. I wrote back asking why the refund, and never heard from them again. I couldn't open up a case with paypal because they had refunded money (against my wishes). I called up Ebay and spoke to one of their customer service people and she told me "the seller probably didn't want to sell the item so cheaply and that this was a gray area in their policy, that ebay could not enforce and to try to work it out with the seller". I was so disappointed with the seller and ebay. I left her a negative, which I really don't like doing, but she deserves it. If we as buyers have to follow through with paying then the seller should have to follow through with the sale, regardless. So fuzzymummy I fully empathize with you
 
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#6,274
latetotheparty said:
I had a very similar experience recently on ebay, I purchased something, which was a great price, paid immediately and then...nothing. I finally wrote the seller after 2 weeks, since I never received a tracking number or anything. It took them another 3 days to tell me that "something came up" and that they would be more than happy to refund my money, and "what did I want to do?" So I replied "I just want my item", even though by then it's almost 3 weeks after I paid. They refunded even though I said I wanted the item. I wrote back asking why the refund, and never heard from them again. I couldn't open up a case with paypal because they had refunded money (against my wishes). I called up Ebay and spoke to one of their customer service people and she told me "the seller probably didn't want to sell the item so cheaply and that this was a gray area in their policy, that ebay could not enforce and to try to work it out with the seller". I was so disappointed with the seller and ebay. I left her a negative, which I really don't like doing, but she deserves it. If we as buyers have to follow through with paying then the seller should have to follow through with the sale, regardless. So fuzzymummy I fully empathize with you
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It really ticks me off that eBay calls it a "gray area". I thought a binding agreement involved both parties. Can you imagine what would happen if every buyer just turned around and decided not to pay? Maybe we should all bid on stuff from sellers with crappy feedback and then say "oh I didn't want to buy it for that price after all, sorry. I thought that gray area in your policy excuses me from having to pay`. As my mom used to say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I wonder how often this happens.
 
#6,275
BeenBurned said:
Originally Posted by BeenBurned I believe that ebay recently made some changes and until an item is paid for, that person hasn't "won" or "bought" it. Until it's been paid for by the first person who wins (auction) or buys (BIN), the listing remains up and active.

In this case, it's possible that the other person did a BIN but if she hadn't paid for it, the item isn't considered to be sold and the listing remains up and active. Obviously, the seller didn't have her BIN listings set with IPR (immediate payment required) or the BIN sale wouldn't have even registered.

And you won it fair and square and once you paid, it should have been yours.

And I don't believe the seller for a second.


^^^ In red, that's not necessarily correct. In the case you described (with the item you won), the seller didn't have IPR. (When seller has a BIN listing, she has the choice of requiring immediate payment or not requiring it. Many sellers like IPR because it cuts down on non-payers. If someone does the BIN, they must pay or the item remains unsold. Or if they don't have the IPR requirement, the person BINs it but the item remains available to the first/next person who wins and completes payment. I think that's what happened in this case.

That's correct. Ebay can't force the seller to complete a sale but as the winner, you are able to leave appropriate feedback for that seller.
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I don't know if this is true unless ebay has changed. The way I understand it, if immediate payment is required, the item remains available for anyone to purchase until the buyer completes payment. At that time, the item is considered sold and the listing is ended. If the seller doesn't have IPR, then the listing ends immediately as soon as the buyer confirms the BIN. She then can take as much time as she wants to pay until the seller files an unpaid item case.

If the seller in this case had IPR, I don't think she would even know that she had a buyer unless the buyer actually paid, just like I don't think a seller is made aware if someone puts their item in their shopping cart. The only way the seller would know is if the potential buyer contacted them and told them that they intended to buy it.
 
#6,276
fuzzymummy said:
It really ticks me off that eBay calls it a "gray area". I thought a binding agreement involved both parties. Can you imagine what would happen if every buyer just turned around and decided not to pay? Maybe we should all bid on stuff from sellers with crappy feedback and then say "oh I didn't want to buy it for that price after all, sorry. I thought that gray area in your policy excuses me from having to pay`. As my mom used to say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I wonder how often this happens.
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I think it happens more than you think. Ebay may call it a binding agreement but in reality, it is unenforceable. The only think ebay can do to the buyer is give them unpaid item strikes. I remember once someone clicked a BIN on one of my items and then didn't pay. She told ebay she thought she was just adding it to her watchlist. They told her not to pay and not to worry about it. It cost me another listing fee to relist it. Sellers can only block buyers that have had at least 2 unpaid item strikes in one month or 4 policy violations in one month, so that pretty much says that buyers can do this often without consequences.

Ebay can't force the seller to ship an item to you if they don't want to. They can always say it was damaged or lost.
 
#6,279
latetotheparty said:
I had a very similar experience recently on ebay, I purchased something, which was a great price, paid immediately and then...nothing. I finally wrote the seller after 2 weeks, since I never received a tracking number or anything. It took them another 3 days to tell me that "something came up" and that they would be more than happy to refund my money, and "what did I want to do?" So I replied "I just want my item", even though by then it's almost 3 weeks after I paid. They refunded even though I said I wanted the item. I wrote back asking why the refund, and never heard from them again. I couldn't open up a case with paypal because they had refunded money (against my wishes). I called up Ebay and spoke to one of their customer service people and she told me "the seller probably didn't want to sell the item so cheaply and that this was a gray area in their policy, that ebay could not enforce and to try to work it out with the seller". I was so disappointed with the seller and ebay. I left her a negative, which I really don't like doing, but she deserves it. If we as buyers have to follow through with paying then the seller should have to follow through with the sale, regardless. So fuzzymummy I fully empathize with you
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fuzzymummy said:
It really ticks me off that eBay calls it a "gray area". I thought a binding agreement involved both parties. Can you imagine what would happen if every buyer just turned around and decided not to pay? Maybe we should all bid on stuff from sellers with crappy feedback and then say "oh I didn't want to buy it for that price after all, sorry. I thought that gray area in your policy excuses me from having to pay`. As my mom used to say, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. I wonder how often this happens.
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It's not a gray area. Ebay policy is very specific for both buyers and sellers. Sellers are required to complete sales of paid items and buyers are required to pay for an item that they buy (BIN) or win (auction).

The problem is that ebay can't "force" either party to do its part aside from sanctions and dings ebay can dish out.

Or if they don't have the IPR requirement, the person BINs it but the item remains available to the first/next person who wins and completes payment. I think that's what happened in this case.
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whateve said:
I don't know if this is true unless ebay has changed. The way I understand it, if immediate payment is required, the item remains available for anyone to purchase until the buyer completes payment. At that time, the item is considered sold and the listing is ended. If the seller doesn't have IPR, then the listing ends immediately as soon as the buyer confirms the BIN. She then can take as much time as she wants to pay until the seller files an unpaid item case.

If the seller in this case had IPR, I don't think she would even know that she had a buyer unless the buyer actually paid, just like I don't think a seller is made aware if someone puts their item in their shopping cart. The only way the seller would know is if the potential buyer contacted them and told them that they intended to buy it.
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Your interpretation is how the policy used to be but sometime during this past spring or summer, they changed it.

Here's the change -- which I find VERY confusing and I might be misinterpreting it:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/buy/formats.html

Buyers can put items into their shopping cart, including BIN items. But until that BIN item is paid for (and thus removed from the shopping cart, it's available for others to buy or bid on. (Actually, now that I'm re-reading the policy, my previous interpretation seems incorrect.)

I think what might have happened is that another buyer may have put the item into her shopping cart intending to purchase but since she left it in the cart, no sale was made. Then, the winner of the auction won and paid for the item, after which the seller heard from the other wannabe buyer. Since the BIN would have been more money for the seller than the auction price, the seller lied to her buyer and refunded the payment.
 

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#6,280
#6,281
BeenBurned said:
I don't believe it's authentic. P should be the plant code for Costa Rica and the thickness of the font, and spacing and pressure/depth of the imprint on the creed aren't correct.
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Okay---I didn't know that about the plant code. I see that some of the Helen's Legacy buckets have creed that say they were made in Turkey. What is letter code should they show?
And thanks!
 
#6,282
Hyacinth said:
Coach DOES have a "watchdog" law firm that works for ather major companies too (Gibney, Anthony & Flaherty, LLP), but their methods are more on the order of Vito and Vinnie from the "old neighborhood" than a first-rate firm, but apparently that's what Coach wants. The Tabberone site has more information including a copy of one version of the shakedown letter, and some comments about what she calls Ebay's Snitch Program - obviously the site owner has strong opinions so read accordingly:
http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/trademarks.shtml

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfShame/Designers/Coach/docs/CoachDemandLetter.shtml

http://www.tabberone.com/Trademarks/HallOfShame/Designers/Coach/Coach.shtml

As for the Ebay seller (also a former Coach employee), she was wrongfully accused of selling a fake bag, I think by the same law firm already mentioned. Hopefully she's won her case by now although I haven't read any updated information. Several of us looked at the "fake" bag and of course it was completely genuine. Google "Gina Kim Coach" for more information:
http://thedailyrecord.com/generatio...ist-letter-fits-nicely-in-that-coach-handbag/

http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-sh...ons-against-resellers-ban-letters-765548.html

I should also add that there doesn't seem to be ANY connection between Coach and its law-degreed pit bulls and the Ebay "watchdogs" who report fake bags. In fact thinking back to posts from Ebay's old forums and other sites on the internet, a lot of the Ebay sellers who got the shakedown letters from Coach and other major clothing, accessory and jewelry manufacturers were probably selling questionable merchandise. Most of them seemed to be buying in bulk and not too concerned about where their stuff was coming from or how they were buying brands like Ralph Lauren, Adidas, Rolex, MLB, NFL, and others well under retail prices. So while the attorneys probably scared off some fakes sellers, they also didn't bother to verify that all the targets of their letters actually WERE selling fakes.

ETA- There are 38 pages of complaints in this online forum from Ebay sellers who got the letter, going back 5 years, and there aren't too many sellers posting who I'd be comfortable buying a name-brand item from:
http://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum...5-cease-desist-letter-adidas-america-inc.html
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Wow! What a storehouse of information. This surely does clarify and validate many areas of past discussion. Just need some free time to peruse it all. Thank You for sharing!:tup:
 
#6,283
twodocks said:
Okay---I didn't know that about the plant code. I see that some of the Helen's Legacy buckets have creed that say they were made in Turkey. What is letter code should they show?
And thanks!
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Hyacinth and Whateve have a lot more knowledge of plant codes, when certain plants were used, which codes applied to mutliple countries, etc. WHile I do recognize some incorrect codes, fonts and dates on classic bags, I'd prefer to have one of them explain what was made where.

Understand that Coach doesn't publicize nor educate the public as to even how to read serial numbers. In fact, most Coach employees know little more than that the style number is the second 1/2 of the serial number of current bags.

What is posted in Hyacinth's and Salearea's guides is a result of years of gathering data and studying it to figure out how to translate it.
 
#6,284
twodocks said:
Me again. Or this one. Does the 8 in the stamp below the Creed look upside down?

VINTAGE COACH HELEN'S LEGACY BAG BLACK #9953
item number: 271287398232
seller: barfra2003
http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-COA...232?pt=US_CSA_WH_Handbags&hash=item3f29fd2f58
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ANY J8P- bag that says it was made in the US is fake, since as BeenBurned said, the P plant code was only used for Costa Rica in 1998. In fact I posted a photo just 2 days ago of a genuine bag with a valid J8P- serial prefix and a Costa Rica creed:
http://forum.purseblog.com/coach-shopping/authenticate-this-coach-818914-414.html#post25457980

Turkish plants at various times used either the capital letter "i" or a number "2" for their plant codes. But like with all codes, having the right combination doesn't prove the bag is genuine.
 
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