Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

[Vlad]

IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:

• Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
• Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
• FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
  Item:
  Listing number:
  Seller and site where listed
  Link:
  Comments:
  
  
• FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
  Item:
  Where purchased or how obtained
  Comments:

BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.

• Front of item
• Back of item
• Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
• Made in tags (when available)
• Measurements
• For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
• For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
• If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.

Thank you and be safe!

 

[Hyacinth]

I asked for a photo of the creed, but from what I can see it's not in gold and I thought legacy bags all had gold creeds. Also I can't pull up any photos of this particular style to match the creed number.

NO, not all "Legacy" bags had gold creeds.

I'm not sure where you're looking for other photos of the same style but I already posted links to photos from three tPF members and photos from 1 of 2 different Completed Ebay listings, here are the listing links for those 2:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-41852...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-green...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

There are also a lot of photos from various sites and blogs on Google but none of them have the provenance I like to see.

Above are five different examples of that style number 41852, and none of them match the bag you're asking about - the only place that style number with those details seems to exist is on your seller's website and in Coach's preproduction photo. That to me either says that either it's fake or that there's no way to say it's authentic based on the information we have available.

 

[Hyacinth]

Bumpity bump?

ETA: The original picture links didn't carry over - it's post 14527. Thank you!

FWIW, I looked at my other Basic bag and the creed flap is crooked on that one, too, though it's not nearly as bad and the stitching caught all the edges. Apples and oranges due to age differences in the two, but I'd never noticed crooked creed flaps on any bags before now.

I'm hoping Whateve will take a look since she's more familiar with that style than I. It's hard to imagine Coach's Quality Control letting a bag with two noticeable problems into the retail market, but Whateve has seen more small vintage bags and has more experience.

 

[Hyacinth]

Lining, zipper, zipper pull, and logo photos. Logo is Center d near bottom, not off to the side.

I still can't get around that lining. Does it look like it might have been sewn in by one of the owners? Maybe it had the stripe Ticking lining and that got stained or torn and had to be replaced. It sounds like a home-made addition the way you described it in your original post #14541. You're in a much better position to look for that than we are. If it wasn't for the lining I'd just assume it was mid to late 1990s based on the Coach logo and the zipper pull. I'll check some of my catalogs for any cases with a logo stamp on the bottom center.

It's definitely NOT Cashin and NOT "pre-creed" though, that's for sure.

ETA- no luck finding ANY other case with a logo stamp in the center. But the lining should be enough proof that it's not a Coach product.

 

[maramd]

I still can't get around that lining. Does it look like it might have been sewn in by one of the owners? Maybe it had the stripe Ticking lining and that got stained or torn and had to be replaced. You're in a much better position to look for that than we are. If it wasn't for the lining I'd just assume it was mid to late 1990s based on the Coach logo and the zipper pull.

The lining is sewn in with the seams. Could have been replaced and resewn using the same holes. Two of the bottom corners are a little wrinkled, like it could have been redone. I will compare the stiching to the other chunky cases I have but it looks even and well done. Good cobbler? Might just return it.

 

[whateve]

Could I please get authentications on these 3 thrifted finds? Thank you!

Item: Basic Bag
Seller: Goodwill (in my possession)
Dimensions: 10.5 x 7 x 2
Comments: The anchors made me do it! The creed flap is very crooked and stitching didn't catch edges in 2 places. Is there also too much extra space between 'Coach' and the creed wording? I left on what I believe are crafty DIY strap shortening apparati on the d-rings. Front and back of bag look the same.

I'm hoping Whateve will take a look since she's more familiar with that style than I. It's hard to imagine Coach's Quality Control letting a bag with two noticeable problems into the retail market, but Whateve has seen more small vintage bags and has more experience.

There are several problems that worry me but I can't say definitely whether it is authentic or fake. The anchors make me believe the strap is authentic. The creed stamping doesn't match any I have in my files. The letters are more squished together than normal. The reason you think there is too much space under "Coach" is because the word "Leatherware" is gone, as well as part of the letters of "Coach."

I have seen a few vintage bags where the stitching didn't catch everything but not to that extent. Generally when that happened, it was in area that was originally glued as well as sewn, such as on a handle. The fact that the stitching didn't catch wasn't apparent until the glue was washed away. Yours seems extra sloppy, probably too sloppy to pass quality control. If the creed was closer to standard, I might be willing to give the sloppiness a pass.

 

[maramd]

I still can't get around that lining. Does it look like it might have been sewn in by one of the owners? Maybe it had the stripe Ticking lining and that got stained or torn and had to be replaced. It sounds like a home-made addition the way you described it in your original post #14541. You're in a much better position to look for that than we are. If it wasn't for the lining I'd just assume it was mid to late 1990s based on the Coach logo and the zipper pull. I'll check some of my catalogs for any cases with a logo stamp on the bottom center.

It's definitely NOT Cashin and NOT "pre-creed" though, that's for sure.

ETA- no luck finding ANY other case with a logo stamp in the center. But the lining should be enough proof that it's not a Coach product.

O.k. Logo in the center = not Coach. Will return to sender.

 

[Ravvie99]

There are several problems that worry me but I can't say definitely whether it is authentic or fake. The anchors make me believe the strap is authentic. The creed stamping doesn't match any I have in my files. The letters are more squished together than normal. The reason you think there is too much space under "Coach" is because the word "Leatherware" is gone, as well as part of the letters of "Coach."

I have seen a few vintage bags where the stitching didn't catch everything but not to that extent. Generally when that happened, it was in area that was originally glued as well as sewn, such as on a handle. The fact that the stitching didn't catch wasn't apparent until the glue was washed away. Yours seems extra sloppy, probably too sloppy to pass quality control. If the creed was closer to standard, I might be willing to give the sloppiness a pass.

Thanks so much, Whateve! Everything you say makes total sense, and I think I'll just return it. It pains me a little to return a burgundy/mahogany, since it's my fave. But I learned something and appreciate your taking the time to explain your reasoning. Have a good night

 

[whateve]

Curious about the yellow frosting. Mine is white.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26239590745...8&exe=13632&ext=34902&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

seller: burnt_toast_vintage

# 262395907457

NWT Coach LEATHER Icing Cupcake Pave Crystal Jewel Keychain Charm KEY FOB NEW

 

[BeenBurned]

I asked for a photo of the creed, but from what I can see it's not in gold and I thought legacy bags all had gold creeds. Also I can't pull up any photos of this particular style to match the creed number.

NO, not all "Legacy" bags had gold creeds.

I'm not sure where you're looking for other photos of the same style but I already posted links to photos from three tPF members and photos from 1 of 2 different Completed Ebay listings, here are the listing links for those 2:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/COACH-41852...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
and
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coach-green...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

There are also a lot of photos from various sites and blogs on Google but none of them have the provenance I like to see.

Above are five different examples of that style number 41852, and none of them match the bag you're asking about - the only place that style number with those details seems to exist is on your seller's website and in Coach's preproduction photo. That to me either says that either it's fake or that there's no way to say it's authentic based on the information we have available.

As a further example of why I believe that the bag from Poshmark seller, Diorgirl is fake is shown in the following comps.

Aside from the differences in both the style and the creed stamping and color, did you notice that the creed describes a bag made of GOAT LEATHER WITH METALLIC FINISH? Clearly, the striped bag is NOT made of goat leather!

Do not buy this bag from DIORGIRL on Poshmark!

And more comps:

 

[BeenBurned]

O.k. Logo in the center = not Coach. Will return to sender.

The seller should cover return shipping.

 

[BeenBurned]

Curious about the yellow frosting. Mine is white.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26239590745...8&exe=13632&ext=34902&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

seller: burnt_toast_vintage

# 262395907457

NWT Coach LEATHER Icing Cupcake Pave Crystal Jewel Keychain Charm KEY FOB NEW

I wish she had pictures of the back of the cupcake and the lozenge.

I've never seen the yellow frosting either but it's possible that the charm was made for the Asian market. The front and clip look identical to mine:

 

[Lmm2924]

It's very hard to authenticate when you can't read the creed, and that particular style number may have come in more than 1 version. Posts here at tPF (search for "41852" in the search link at the main Coach forum) - show photos of that Legacy Top Handle Pouch style bought at one of the outlets with different details on the front. The bag at the upper left of the photo is 41852:
http://forum.purseblog.com/coach/purple-coach-lovers-you-need-to-see-this-394780-1.html#post8895810

The poster lists the numbers too:
41852 Legacy Top Handle Pouch $49.68
41850 Legacy Clutch $67.49
41851 Legacy Cosmetic Case $44.99

Below is a copy of that tPF poster's photo with the 41852 Pouch at top left, plus a photo I've had in my files for a long time marked "41852-actual", plus Coach's ORIGINAL 41852 inventory photo (which most resembles the photo in the Poshmark listing). Maybe someone can remember if there were such major changes to this style during it's production run?

The fourth and fifth photos are from the poshmark listing. If it's a fake, it's a good one - but they copied the wrong version of the bag. Interesting too that they copied the exact placement of the stripe colors in the preproduction photo too.

It's happened before where Coach posted a preproduction photo of an upcoming style but made changes before production, and the fakes makers copied the photo and ended up with a fake that didn't match the actual item - there was a Snaphead keychain where the early photos showed 7 snaphead charms but the actual keychain was eventually made with only 5, and all those 7-charm versions are fakes that were based on preproduction photos. Something similar may have happened here. OR maybe they actually did make 2 versions, the early one with the more elaborate leather trim, and then simplified it during the production run or when making it for the outlets. Does anyone know?

Thank you everyone for confirming what I suspected.

 

[BeenBurned]

Thank you everyone for confirming what I suspected.

Did you see my post #14568?

The text on the creed is wrong. It states that the bag is a goat leather bag trimmed with metallic finish.

IMO, that's definitely not a mistake Coach would have made.

 

[Hyacinth]

Curious about the yellow frosting. Mine is white.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/26239590745...8&exe=13632&ext=34902&sojTags=exe=exe,ext=ext

seller: burnt_toast_vintage

# 262395907457

NWT Coach LEATHER Icing Cupcake Pave Crystal Jewel Keychain Charm KEY FOB NEW

Did you Zoom in on the hangtag? It's REALLY bad, the border is broken up into a dozen sections by gaps that aren't supposed to be there. I know hangtags can't prove anything but this one really looks bad and the proportions feel wrong. Picture below.

As for color, who knows? I've seen color variations on at least another dozen keychain styles so usually don't worry about it.


ETA - I'm going to change my mind here , after finding an apparently genuine version of the same keychain but with white icing. It looks like the hangtag on the real one might have the same kind of defects as the questionable yellow-frosted one, there are what looks like two gouges above the letter A in Coach on the real hangtag, just like on the one in the first picture below that I thought might be fake. Hard to believe that Coach is putting hangtags on keychains that look as if they were gnawed by wolves. Pictures 2 and 3 are the known genuine one. So the yellow-iced one seems genuine too

 

[nerual13]

Item: Bonnie Cashin Coach CASHIN CARRY 60s Lime Leather Dinkey Bag Lunch Tote Rare
Listing number: 221891742935
Seller: monalisa_creations
Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bonnie-Cash...742935?hash=item33a9c74cd7:g:2pwAAOSwsB9V~y~l
Comments:

Yeah, this one is a rare old one. I don't know if y'all authenticate for bags this vintage, but I sure hope so! I've been watching forever for a Cashin era bag that isn't brown, black, red or beige! Thank you thank you for looking!