Authenticate This COACH - **see first post for format**

[Vlad]

IMPORTANT READ-ME

Please post authenticity questions related to COACH in this thread. No PMs please.
For further information, please refer to the first post on page 1 of this thread.

Please follow the following requests:

• Before you submit a request for authentication, please search this thread to make sure that the item has not previously been authenticated by searching the seller ID and/or item number. This is not a thread to ask general questions about COACH, please refer to our main Coach forum for such information.
• Note that authenticators have the right to refuse any requests. This is a free service, but it is imperative that you help our authenticators by using the following format:
• FOR ITEMS LISTED ONLINE:
  Item:
  Listing number:
  Seller and site where listed
  Link:
  Comments:
  
  
• FOR ITEMS NOT LISTED ONLINE:
  Item:
  Where purchased or how obtained
  Comments:

BASIC PICTURES REQUIRED (but more may be requested): If necessary pictures are in the listing, it's not necessary to upload and duplicate them.

• Front of item
• Back of item
• Full clear and legible creed text and serial number
• Made in tags (when available)
• Measurements
• For bags with turnlock closures, show pictures of back of female side of turnlock
• For bags with magnetic snaps, show pictures of the male part of the snap so that the numbers and letters on it can be read
• If applicable, search interior of bag and/or pockets for small white tag with production information and include a picture of that.

Thank you and be safe!

 

[Hyacinth]

Thank you @BeenBurned for taking the time to write this as well.

How I feel about the bags
-It's sad to admit but I really thought the bags were well cared for. hence the pricing that was set.

-I checked back on all descriptions of the bags and all it said was "condition is preowned". I dont expext the bags to be perfect but it really would have been best if these flaws were declared. see photos below.

-I am debating whether to ask for a flat 50% partial refund of the total I paid for 3 flawed bags OR ask for a full refund. However Im afraid if I ask for a full refund I might still shoulder the cost of returning the goods. Which means Im the one who will be losing money for nothing.

Here are the photos for the other 3 bags

item: duffle 9085
seller: corgidogstephen
comments:
-the strap and the opening of the bag, to use @houseof999 's words:like it has been dragged throigh concrete.
-I think with heavy use, the strap could snap because it is thin on some points.
View attachment 4571969 View attachment 4571971 View attachment 4571973
View attachment 4571974

item: station bag
seller:corgidogstephen
comments:
-there's a pinky nail sized hole at the side of the bag.
-even if I get this repaired, it wont be a neat restitch because of where the tear is.

View attachment 4571976
View attachment 4571977

item: court bag
seller: corgidogstephen
comments:
-this is the only "acceptable" bag of the bunch. theres a small hole in the piping, sadly in front of the bag.
-this I think I can live with.
-apologies the creed is slightly faded. couldnt get a decent shot of it

View attachment 4571978
View attachment 4571979

AGAIN- thabk you so much for being so patient and taking the time to explain things.

If the flaws weren't too significant I generally love the condition of the bags. Im just worried about the duffle strap and that paint job transferring on my clothes.

THANK YOU AGAIN Authenticators. and yes I will wait before I message the seller.

OMG! I can't believe those issues weren't disclosed! (This isn't a newbie seller and with the number of negs, I'd expect the seller to be more transparent.)

All are authentic (in this case) so if you want to keep and work on them, it would probably be worth it for corgidogstephen to be willing to negotiate a settlement. (Keep in mind that even if he gets them back, future buyers will likely have the same complaints if the issues aren't disclosed.) So to have a buyer willing to accept the bags is a plus for the seller.

I don't do rehab but I'd be very surprised if that station bag can be acceptably repaired! The others might be fixable as I've seen the rehabbers here work magic.

But if the seller isn't willing to work with you, this is absolutely a SNAD-worthy case and you should be made whole! And by "whole," I don't think the seller should cost you a single penny if you return them!

Omg return everything! It's not worth trying get partial refund or negotiate any deal because seller seems like a nightmare to deal with!

I agree. Insist on a full refund and handle it EXACTLY the way BeenBurned is telling you. She's been giving great advice not just here at Coach but also in the main Ebay forum here at tPF. You should NEVER allow a seller to take advantage of you the way this one has. And you'd never be happy with the bag or bags you kept no matter how much of a refund you get.

And PLEASE, before you buy or commit to buying anything else, post here and get it authenticated. If you had done that with those 4 bags, there's no way in the world we would have advised you to buy them.

ETA - and one more piece of advice, if you're not already tired of listening to me playing Teacher.

Most of the time, especially if you're a new Ebayer or new to a certain brand like Coach that is faked all around the world, it's best to avoid bags sold in "lots" where 2 or more bags are combined in the same listing. What you're going through with a dishonest seller is a good example, it's easy for someone who KNOWS they have one or more fakes or unsellable bags that have problems or damage to just put them all together and not bother to take clear photos of the creeds or the problem areas and hope that bidders won't notice.

Here's an example of a really dishonest seller who tried the same trick 6 years ago, but apparently she saved seven or eight "Coaches" that she KNEW were fake and dumped them in a large lot of bags on an unsuspecting buyer. Posts start here (2 posts)
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/authenticate-this-coach.818914/page-60#post-24780438
and continue through June 15, 2013 with more posts about that fake listing here on page 2 of tPF's search page;
https://forum.purseblog.com/search/...akes&t=post&o=date&c[node]=29+284+114+113+129

I hope you can find the time to read it.

In all, I think the unlucky buyer got EIGHT fake Coaches in that lot, and the reason the total wasn't higher was probably because a genuine bag actually was included, but it was in an older and unusual style that the seller probably thought was also fake. This is why buying highly faked bags in "lots" without a way of authenticating them can be risky and should be left to the expert buyers and expert authenticators. Unfortunately the buyer bought them to resell and some had already been passed on to other buyers so the original seller refused to take the remaining fakes back. I don't remember what the final resolution was, but this gives you an idea of what can happen.

Eventually the crooked seller was banned after many name changes from Ebay (2 or 3 times!), Tradesy, Etsy and heaven knows where else. Ironically she still apparently has her day job of selling real estate in the Cincinnatti Ohio area. Heaven help anyone who buys a house from her.

 

[BeenBurned]

The bag is fake and the seller katherine_c was informed (politely) that it's not authentic.

To katherine_c's credit, she ended her listing "pending verification of authenticity" but subsequently reinstated her listing, sending me the following. I can't respond to correct or dispute.

I guess this proves the adage that no good deed goes unpunished
KATHERINE_C'S MESSAGE: Just an FYI before you run around on your high horse and message another person with false claims they are illegally selling a counterfeit item, that it is not a fake. Those numbers, while USUALLY associated with the bag you mentioned have in fact been used on other models and the embossing, stitching and material further establish the bag's legitimacy. Furthermore, the year of this bag came at a time when counterfeits were not what they are now and a bag of this size and shape would not have been desirable for replicating - per someone who knows what they are actually talking about.

As @houseof999 commented, she DID get a fake of that bag and we've seen others.

Oh lordy. (shakin my head). "Those numbers" "have been used on other models." Uhhh, no, not as an actual style number -- that's kind of the definition of the phrase 'style number'. The only innocent way out of that statement is if she's pointing to a pre-94 bag, where 5130 just happens to be the seemingly random set of four digits. I can't even think of any other 'innocent', 'benefit of the doubt' way to interpret that claim. But that would in turn mean that she is not familiar with the 94 change, which further means she's in no position for even an educated guess. Sigh. I also thought it was cute (sarcasm) the implication that you went out of your way to "find" her. (stifled snort).

For the record, in the event that Mercari's katherine_c / MKathC might be lurking and trying to learn, the following side by side comps are show the creed from her fake with L4C-5130 vs. the creed from an authentic bag of the style that her bag is copying. The genuine version has the same prefix but the correct style number.

In addition to the incorrect style number, I guess Coach also forgot to construct the pocket correctly too.

 

[Lake Effect]

For the record, in the event that Mercari's katherine_c / MKathC might be lurking and trying to learn, the following side by side comps are show the creed from her fake with L4C-5130 vs. the creed from an authentic bag of the style that her bag is copying. The genuine version has the same prefix but the correct style number.

In addition to the incorrect style number, I guess Coach also forgot to construct the pocket correctly too.
View attachment 4572204

Is MKathC stating that there were not counterfeits bags out in the 90’s like there are now? And she knows what she is talking about when she says they weren’t counterfeiting bags like that style? It sounds like she *cough* wants to imply she intimately knows a lot about counterfeiting bags!
Well I do know that for a fact there were a lot of fake Coaches being sold in the middle and late 90s at least in my neck of the woods (of all different styles) as I have posted they were being sold openly at a now defunct flea market as well as by “parties” and by sellers making the rounds of beauty salons and taking orders,etc. Some sellers were up front about them being fake and some were evasive. Some of the fakes were close and some were awful.
In the early 2000’s, with increased business travel to China, I heard from numerous people then that there were shopping areas in China that made fakes of many brands, including Coach readily available to foreigners. And that people were buying up the fakes like there was no tomorrow.

 

[Hyacinth]

Is MKathC stating that there were not counterfeits bags out in the 90’s like there are now? And she knows what she is talking about when she says they weren’t counterfeiting bags like that style? It sounds like she *cough* wants to imply she intimately knows a lot about counterfeiting bags!
Well I do know that for a fact there were a lot of fake Coaches being sold in the middle and late 90s at least in my neck of the woods (of all different styles) as I have posted they were being sold openly at a now defunct flea market as well as by “parties” and by sellers making the rounds of beauty salons and taking orders,etc. Some sellers were up front about them being fake and some were evasive. Some of the fakes were close and some were awful.
In the early 2000’s, with increased business travel to China, I heard from numerous people then that there were shopping areas in China that made fakes of many brands, including Coach readily available to foreigners. And that people were buying up the fakes like there was no tomorrow.

The explosion in fake Coaches is probably a result of several things - primarily military personnel stationed in South Korea who brought fake Coaches back to the US by the bushel-ful, and that was probably directly due to Coach opening boutiques in Japan starting in 1989 or 1990. Suddenly Korean fakes makers had a new market and a new brand that Japanese buyers were going nuts over. We already know that the Korean fakes industry was in full swing making Foaches by at least 1990, the abundance of fake "Bean Bag" creeds is proof. They had two markets right in their backyards and a source for original Coaches to copy just a short plane or boat ride away, and at the same time at least half a dozen Korean manufacturers were trying to steal Coach's trademark, there were several cases running through the Korean courts for most of the 1990s.

As for China, state-approved and licensed tour guides were leading tourists to counterfeiting hotspots as part of the tour and with the full blessing of the Chinese government. Not just Coach either, but any highly popular brand like Nike, LV, Ralph Lauren, you name it, they faked it. Even inexpensive bags like LeSportsac were being made and sold by the tens of thousands to tourists looking for a deal and tour guides all too willing to provide one.

 

[Splatnext]

For the record, in the event that Mercari's katherine_c / MKathC might be lurking and trying to learn, the following side by side comps are show the creed from her fake with L4C-5130 vs. the creed from an authentic bag of the style that her bag is copying. The genuine version has the same prefix but the correct style number.

In addition to the incorrect style number, I guess Coach also forgot to construct the pocket correctly too.
View attachment 4572204

I really admire your composure BeenBurned, dug it out of the back of my closet indeed.
Don't feel left out that goes for the rest of you Authentication Queens to, the length you go to the time and energie you put in here is amazing.

 

[carterazo]

Hello dear authenticators!
Please take a look at this bag when you can.
Item: Vintage Coach red crossbody bag
Listing number: 78480195
Seller: Goodwill Industries of greater Cleveland and East Central Ohio
Link: https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/78480195
Comments: What is the actual name of this bag?
Thank you!!!

 

[BeenBurned]

Hello dear authenticators!
Please take a look at this bag when you can.
Item: Vintage Coach red crossbody bag
Listing number: 78480195
Seller: Goodwill Industries of greater Cleveland and East Central Ohio
Link: https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/78480195
Comments: What is the actual name of this bag?
Thank you!!!

It's fine.

 

[carterazo]

It's fine.

Thanks!

 

[Hyacinth]

Hello dear authenticators!
Please take a look at this bag when you can.
Item: Vintage Coach red crossbody bag
Listing number: 78480195
Seller: Goodwill Industries of greater Cleveland and East Central Ohio
Link: https://www.shopgoodwill.com/Item/78480195
Comments: What is the actual name of this bag?
Thank you!!!

It might be a 9635 Convertible Clutch but I can't be sure since there's nothing in the description or photos about what pockets it has and there's no clear photo of the bottom panel.

 

[akvt]

I agree. Insist on a full refund and handle it EXACTLY the way BeenBurned is telling you. She's been giving great advice not just here at Coach but also in the main Ebay forum here at tPF. You should NEVER allow a seller to take advantage of you the way this one has. And you'd never be happy with the bag or bags you kept no matter how much of a refund you get.

And PLEASE, before you buy or commit to buying anything else, post here and get it authenticated. If you had done that with those 4 bags, there's no way in the world we would have advised you to buy them.

ETA - and one more piece of advice, if you're not already tired of listening to me playing Teacher.

Most of the time, especially if you're a new Ebayer or new to a certain brand like Coach that is faked all around the world, it's best to avoid bags sold in "lots" where 2 or more bags are combined in the same listing. What you're going through with a dishonest seller is a good example, it's easy for someone who KNOWS they have one or more fakes or unsellable bags that have problems or damage to just put them all together and not bother to take clear photos of the creeds or the problem areas and hope that bidders won't notice.

Here's an example of a really dishonest seller who tried the same trick 6 years ago, but apparently she saved seven or eight "Coaches" that she KNEW were fake and dumped them in a large lot of bags on an unsuspecting buyer. Posts start here (2 posts)
https://forum.purseblog.com/threads/authenticate-this-coach.818914/page-60#post-24780438
and continue through June 15, 2013 with more posts about that fake listing here on page 2 of tPF's search page;
https://forum.purseblog.com/search/...akes&t=post&o=date&c[node]=29+284+114+113+129

I hope you can find the time to read it.

In all, I think the unlucky buyer got EIGHT fake Coaches in that lot, and the reason the total wasn't higher was probably because a genuine bag actually was included, but it was in an older and unusual style that the seller probably thought was also fake. This is why buying highly faked bags in "lots" without a way of authenticating them can be risky and should be left to the expert buyers and expert authenticators. Unfortunately the buyer bought them to resell and some had already been passed on to other buyers so the original seller refused to take the remaining fakes back. I don't remember what the final resolution was, but this gives you an idea of what can happen.

Eventually the crooked seller was banned after many name changes from Ebay (2 or 3 times!), Tradesy, Etsy and heaven knows where else. Ironically she still apparently has her day job of selling real estate in the Cincinnatti Ohio area. Heaven help anyone who buys a house from her.

Hi @Hyacinth @houseof999 @BeenBurned
just sharing the good news.

Thank you so much again for saving me. This is the second time. Hopefully never again.

@Hyacinth yes I do avoid lots actually. its just that I thought corgidogstephen would be a good seller to buy from, based on the pictures and based on the fact that I can combine shipping. i.e. instead of buying 4 bags from 4 different sellers at about 33 usd each, I can get 4 good bags shipped at 33usd.

lesson learnt is that I should probably ask for MORE photos on my next purchase.

@Hyacinth- thank you for taking the time to write- I do read them word by word

@houseof999 @Hyacinth @BeenBurned thanks for insisting I return.

 

[akvt]

hi authenticators!

could I kindly request a check on these items:

item: saddle bag
seller: nhollywoodfinds
comment:
-aware that seller has history of selling fake xlarge duffle bag
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163905425554

item: drawstring 9992 bag
seller:mopars_n_harleys
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/133209295850

item:4142? bag
seller piggiesinabanket
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264504270004

item: field bag
seller: cevansjazz
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273981652686

item: duffle bag 9085
seller: the-storage-room
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/392496807451

thank you!!!

 

[Hyacinth]

hi authenticators!

could I kindly request a check on these items:

item: saddle bag
seller: nhollywoodfinds
comment:
-aware that seller has history of selling fake xlarge duffle bag
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/163905425554

item: drawstring 9992 bag
seller:mopars_n_harleys
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/133209295850

item:4142? bag
seller piggiesinabanket
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/264504270004

item: field bag
seller: cevansjazz
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/273981652686

item: duffle bag 9085
seller: the-storage-room
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https://www.ebay.com/ulk/itm/392496807451

thank you!!!

1- genuine Crescent Bag, style 9236, made some time in the mid to late 1970s?

2- genuine Handle Backpack from 1996

3- genuine Soho Wooster Bag from 1994

4- genuine Field Bag from 1995

5- FAKE. The font used for the serial number is completely wrong for the date and plant indicated by the other digits in the prefix, and the wording in the creed is also wrong for the month and year. A genuine J4D- serial and creed statement should look like this:



and here's the fake:

 

[carterazo]

It might be a 9635 Convertible Clutch but I can't be sure since there's nothing in the description or photos about what pockets it has and there's no clear photo of the bottom panel.

Thank you!

 

[akvt]

1- genuine Crescent Bag, style 9236, made some time in the mid to late 1970s?

2- genuine Handle Backpack from 1996

3- genuine Soho Wooster Bag from 1994

4- genuine Field Bag from 1995

5- FAKE. The font used for the serial number is completely wrong for the date and plant indicated by the other digits in the prefix, and the wording in the creed is also wrong for the month and year. A genuine J4D- serial and creed statement should look like this:

View attachment 4572624

and here's the fake:
View attachment 4572626

Thank you so much for your time!

 

[NikkiTheVet]

The bag is fake and the seller katherine_c was informed (politely) that it's not authentic.

To katherine_c's credit, she ended her listing "pending verification of authenticity" but subsequently reinstated her listing, sending me the following. I can't respond to correct or dispute.

I guess this proves the adage that no good deed goes unpunished
KATHERINE_C'S MESSAGE: Just an FYI before you run around on your high horse and message another person with false claims they are illegally selling a counterfeit item, that it is not a fake. Those numbers, while USUALLY associated with the bag you mentioned have in fact been used on other models and the embossing, stitching and material further establish the bag's legitimacy. Furthermore, the year of this bag came at a time when counterfeits were not what they are now and a bag of this size and shape would not have been desirable for replicating - per someone who knows what they are actually talking about.

As @houseof999 commented, she DID get a fake of that bag and we've seen others.